Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

salmocab

walshb wrote: »

But there are times when morals and decency and character and kindness and compassion need to be examined, and not just the letter of the law, which can be rigid and matte of fact; devoid of any real human element....

For me, and I can't be certain, it appears that the parents are showing me a real coldness and lack of sympathy and compassion for the horrendous ordeal that that poor girl went through

Said it before......My son.....key thrown away.

Two things here though, firstly if they believe he’s been wronged for whatever reason they are going to do anything they can, it doesn’t show a lack of anything as if they feel they are in the right then they also feel like their son is a victim. Secondly that my son key thrown away phrase is far too easy to say, it’s a very strange set of circumstances and I doubt anyone knows how they would actually react.

walshb

salmocab wrote: »

Two things here though, firstly if they believe he’s been wronged for whatever reason they are going to do anything they can, it doesn’t show a lack of anything as if they feel they are in the right then they also feel like their son is a victim. Secondly that my son key thrown away phrase is far too easy to say, it’s a very strange set of circumstances and I doubt anyone knows how they would actually react.

Well, like I said, I cannot know for certain

But they do know a lot of stuff...........a lot of bad stuff. Stuff that their son did....

Lies and lies and lies, and shown to be....and lies with devastating consequences. Actions with devastating consequences.

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

But there are times when morals and decency and character and kindness and compassion need to be examined, and not just the letter of the law, which can be rigid and matte of fact; devoid of any real human element....

For me, and I can't be certain, it appears that the parents are showing me a real coldness and lack of sympathy and compassion for the horrendous ordeal that that poor girl went through

Said it before......My son.....key thrown away.

I think Boy B deserves his sentence, but if he was mine I’d probably do anything I could to get him out.

walshb

KiKi III wrote: »

I think Boy B deserves his sentence, but if he was mine I’d probably do anything I could to get him out.

Well, I wouldn’t...

Not when you consider what that poor girl went through..

And really, you’d want him out/off completely?

salmocab

walshb wrote: »

Well, like I said, I cannot know for certain

But they do know a lot of stuff...........a lot of bad stuff. Stuff that their son did....

Lies and lies and lies, and shown to be....and lies with devastating consequences. Actions with devastating consequences.

Look I’m in no way suggesting these people are right but we have no way of knowing what they really believe and I’m not sure if personally I’d put much stock in saying what sort of person the father is based on his outburst in court or that they are looking to go back to court.

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

Well, I wouldn’t...

Not when you consider what that poor girl went through..

And really, you’d want him out/off completely?

Probably, yeah.

I think you’re being unrealistic. You’ve heard the story through the media and naturally your empathy and compassion lie with Ana and her family - a very normal response and one I share.

But if Boy B is your son, who you love more than anything, whose birth changed your life forever, who made you laugh every day, who you can’t believe did what he did, who you think was manipulated by Boy A... of course you would want him out. You don’t see him as a monster, you see him as your little boy who made a mistake.

You would probably feel a lot of compassion for Ana’s family but that wouldn’t negate any of the above.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

walshb wrote: »

But there are times when morals and decency and character and kindness and compassion need to be examined, and not just the letter of the law, which can be rigid and matte of fact; devoid of any real human element....

For me, and I can't be certain, it appears that the parents are showing me a real coldness and lack of sympathy and compassion for the horrendous ordeal that that poor girl went through

Said it before......My son.....key thrown away.

Are you a parent?
You do realise Boy B was 13 years old at the time.
At what age do we start treating children as adults?
6? 8? 10?.....12?

The perpetrators need to be severely punished for their horrific actions, but the tone of this thread has been consistently immature in it’s eagerness to ‘thank’ only those who hammer home the ‘evil scum’ tag regarding these two severely damaged children.

seenitall

Reed Panicky Swimmer wrote: »

Are you a parent?
You do realise Boy B was 13 years old at the time.
At what age do we start treating children as adults?
6? 8? 10?.....12?

The perpetrators need to be severely punished for their horrific actions, but the tone of this thread has been consistently immature in it’s eagerness to ‘thank’ only those who hammer home the ‘evil scum’ tag regarding these two severely damaged children.

Justice systems are one thing, human nature is another. I'd say the human mind will make allowances for extreme evil up to the traditional "age of reason" (something like 7 years of age?), not long beyond that in any case. That's why Thompson and Venables will never be forgiven in the public mind and will have to hide their identities for as long as they live.

walshb

Reed Panicky Swimmer wrote: »

Are you a parent?
You do realise Boy B was 13 years old at the time.
At what age do we start treating children as adults?
6? 8? 10?.....12?

The perpetrators need to be severely punished for their horrific actions, but the tone of this thread has been consistently immature in it’s eagerness to ‘thank’ only those who hammer home the ‘evil scum’ tag regarding these two severely damaged children.

Yes. I am a parent....

And if my 13 year old did what this boy did I would be utterly disgusted....And that disgust would most likely not see me cover for and excuse and lie to spare him his punishment.

You said it....the perpetrators need to be severely punished.......

Any decent and compassionate and caring parent would not be actively trying to obfuscate and deceives and get their son off for such a crime.

And I do realize that he was 13.......what they did was sustained. You do realize this? Sustained evil....and then the sustained cover up and sustained lies...

Doesn't seem so age innocent does it?

13 going on 30 is how this struck me right from the start, and all that happened after painted a picture of two disturbed and bad people....

So, in this scenario, age truly is just a number...

And what they did was pure scum evil.....that's irrefutable.....

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I can only compare this to having a dog you really really love and this dog viciously attacks someone and kills them. You may not believe it, but you’re shown the proof. You fight and fight to stop the dog being put to sleep, but in the back of your head would you not be terrified that this dog you’d have trusted with your life/your childs life would be capable of doing the exact same thing again, and again?

I have no doubt the parents love their child but he took another child’s life and that is barbaric. By all means, they want him home but would they ever sleep again knowing he was out and about? Anyone going missing, any attacks, a murder... would he turn on them?

What he did as a 13 year old was much worse and more sadistic than a lot of absolute lunatic adult criminals are capable of. I’d be scared of someone for sure, even if I did love them.

feargale

I cannot understand for the life of me why boards.ie allows discussion of matters that are before the courts, as well as other stuff, (not necessarily here,) that is downright defamatory while coming down like a ton of bricks on some other legitimately held opinions.
If you want to discuss this case would you not at least wait until the courts are done with it.

walshb

feargale wrote: »

I cannot understand for the life of me why boards.ie allows discussion of matters that are before the courts, as well as other stuff, (not necessarily here,) that is downright defamatory while coming down like a ton of bricks on some other legitimately held opinions.
If you want to discuss this case would you not at least wait until the courts are done with it.

It’s an appeal...Original case over and done with..

The case is widely known. There is no defamation here, at least not for me. Just views..

political analyst

JustAThought wrote: »

Appeals can increase the sentence as well as reduce them. Personally I steadfastly hooe that will be the case here. I am as horrified by the neck of his parents as the vicious cruelty he displayed. It is appalling that the Kriegels may be forced to endure another trial.Can’t they refuse to grant an appeal -that would be a very positive outcome.

Only when they are launched by the DPP, which hasn't happened in this case.

punisher5112

feargale wrote: »

I cannot understand for the life of me why boards.ie allows discussion of matters that are before the courts, as well as other stuff, (not necessarily here,) that is downright defamatory while coming down like a ton of bricks on some other legitimately held opinions.
If you want to discuss this case would you not at least wait until the courts are done with it.

Are you one of them that wants to stop freedom of speech?

The case has been through the courts, it's verdict was given and sentenced to their time....

I see absolutely no issues with the discussion

tayto lover

salmocab wrote: »

Two things here though, firstly if they believe he’s been wronged for whatever reason they are going to do anything they can, it doesn’t show a lack of anything as if they feel they are in the right then they also feel like their son is a victim. Secondly that my son key thrown away phrase is far too easy to say, it’s a very strange set of circumstances and I doubt anyone knows how they would actually react.

I think I’d react with a bit of sympathy for the victim and her parents before I’d shout my mouth off in court after the sentence was given.
We have the evidence to rely on to tell us all we need to know about Boy B and his father.

White lighting

political analyst wrote: »

Only when they are launched by the DPP, which hasn't happened in this case.

Dont think thats correct. Its always been the case if you appealed your sentence you ran the risk of it been increased. Was always a deterrent to stop every Tom Dick and Harry appealing every sentence the got handed down.

joeguevara

White lighting wrote: »

Dont think thats correct. Its always been the case if you appealed your sentence you ran the risk of it been increased. Was always a deterrent to stop every Tom Dick and Harry appealing every sentence the got handed down.

It is definitely an interesting discussion. Firstly if it’s murder, sentence cannot be increased as its mandatory life sentence. So there is no risk of an increase in the sentence.

Secondly, they won’t just increase the sentence if they think it’s on the light side. . They will consider a sentence ‘unduly lenient’ only if they believe the trial judge made a mistake on a legal point.

Appeal court judges will not change a sentence just because they think the sentence was too light or because they would have given a different sentence.

An appeal can be made for conviction only and the appellate court does not have jurisdiction to deal with appeal.DPP can appeal leniency and there has been cases of increase.

Have a look at page 56 https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/consultation%20papers/cpSentencing.htm

ACitizenErased

Boy A assaulted in prison.

https://twitter.com/mickthehack/status/1265296680758411264?s=21

Lollipops23

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Boy A assaulted in prison.

https://twitter.com/mickthehack/status/1265296680758411264?s=21

Not sad to hear that.


I wonder did they figure out his identity or was he just acting like a príck.

Carioco

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Not sad to hear that.


I wonder did they figure out his identity or was he just acting like a príck.

I doubt he was acting up. Oberstown would be the roughest of the rough. It's the very last resort for out of control kids. Boy A would be well out of his depth having grown up in a 'soft' environment.

Anyway if this was a normal enough assault we probably wouldn't hear about it so it must've been a particularly bad one if it's been reported.

ohnonotgmail

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Not sad to hear that.


I wonder did they figure out his identity or was he just acting like a príck.

i couldn't imagine there is any doubt about who they are.

Truthvader

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Not sad to hear that.


I wonder did they figure out his identity or was he just acting like a príck.

How will anything be better because one boy attacks another? I am sad to hear it and even more sorry to hear that Oberstown is unsafe. Nothing is going to be solved or made better by this stupid assault or by warehousing these damaged children in an environment where this is normal. Will what comes out be better than what went in?

DrumSteve

Truthvader wrote: »

How will anything be better because one boy attacks another? I am sad to hear it and even more sorry to hear that Oberstown is unsafe. Nothing is going to be solved or made better by this stupid assault or by warehousing these damaged children in an environment where this is normal. Will what comes out be better than what went in?

Hopefully that little scrote will never see the light of day again.

Rows Grower

Carioco wrote: »

I doubt he was acting up. Oberstown would be the roughest of the rough. It's the very last resort for out of control kids. Boy A would be well out of his depth having grown up in a 'soft' environment.

Anyway if this was a normal enough assault we probably wouldn't hear about it so it must've been a particularly bad one if it's been reported.

I don't know what to say with regard to this comment, lost for words.

RollieFingers

DrumSteve wrote: »

Hopefully that little scrote will never see the light of day again.

And hopefully the first of numerous assaults, good enough for the murdering scrote.

Paulownia

RollieFingers wrote: »

And hopefully the first of numerous assaults, good enough for the murdering scrote.

Would it help if the age at which offenders are tried as adults was lowered? It seems to me that the crimes committed by adolescents are as bad now as by adults and this would mean that the inmates of Oberstown would be younger.
The girl that they murdered was brought up in a soft environment too but they didn’t take that into account when they brutally murderd her

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Can someone please close the thread?

The air at the top of the moral high ground has become very thin.

The thread is nothing more than a ‘thanks accumulator’ for those wishing to express their deep reserves of hatred for two severely damaged teenagers who will (deservedly)pay for their actions every day of their lives.

Rows Grower

Reed Panicky Swimmer wrote: »

Can someone please close the thread?

The air at the top of the moral high ground has become very thin.

The thread is nothing more than a ‘thanks accumulator’ for those wishing to express their deep reserves of hatred for two severely damaged teenagers who will (deservedly)pay for their actions every day of their lives.

Just select unfollow and save yourself the stress of having to read it.

Guy:Incognito

Truthvader wrote: »

I am sad to hear it and even more sorry to hear that Oberstown is unsafe.

Is this your first time hearing about the prison system?

Carioco

Rows Grower wrote: »

I don't know what to say with regard to this comment, lost for words.

What I mean is they are middle class kids who who grew up soft they are going to have a hard time in a prison with kids from some of the toughest estates in the country.

I doubt Boy A is throwing his weight around, he'd be killed by the other prisoners.

I don't think it's the first time they were attacked didn't one of them get attacked before their trial too?