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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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    #7202
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    tuxy wrote: »
    But an interest in the occult is not all that unusual.
    With this club, how many members were there and what exactly was expected of each member?

    Taking a pledge to Satan and conducting a campaign of intimidation against a young girl culminating in her rape and murder is well beyond taking an interest in the occult. Yes some teenagers may mess around with a ouija board and listen to death metal but taking pledges to Satan is bizarre.


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    #7203
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    pearcider wrote: »
    Taking a pledge to Satan and conducting a campaign of intimidation against a young girl culminating in her rape and murder is well beyond taking an interest in the occult. Yes some teenagers may mess around with a ouija board and listen to death metal but taking pledges to Satan is bizarre.

    Yes but the vast majority that even go do that do not murder or rape.
    What do you think was different about this school that they had enough students interested to make a club?


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    #7204
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes but the vast majority that even go do that do not murder or rape.
    What do you think was different about this school that they had enough students interested to make a club?

    Is there anything to show that there was more than two, or possibly one, in this 'club'?


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    #7205
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Is there anything to show that there was more than two, or possibly one, in this 'club'?

    Well there are the actual court reports and Garda reports where they interviewed the kids who signed up, but apart from all that information, no.


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    #7206
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    knucklehead6 wrote: »
    Well there are the actual court reports and Garda reports where they interviewed the kids who signed up, but apart from all that information, no.
    Link ?


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    #7207
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Link ?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570
    Among the vast amount of evidence collected by gardaí were several references to satanism. In Boy B’s room gardaí found a copybook laying out the rules of a “satanic cult” he had set up. There was a list of the group’s members, including both accused

    The write ups in the Irish Times are essential if you wish to have an understanding of the case.


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    #7208
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Caquas


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes but the vast majority that even go do that do not murder or rape.
    What do you think was different about this school that they had enough students interested to make a club?

    That is a question that the media, the Gardaí and the court would not consider.

    The Gardai probably felt they did not need to establish the boys’ motives. They had ample forensic evidence to convict boy A and Boy B convicted himself by his endless lying.

    I wonder whether any teacher was aware of this Satanic homework club in their school?


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    #7209
    mrjoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    Caquas wrote: »
    Or of teenage satanists. The media won’t lift that rock despite the evidence presented in court.


    I don't think this was ever a factor & in the actual assault there is absolutely no evidence that there was any satanic rituals carried out. I believe its all much simpler in Animal A is a blood thirsty sadistic killer while Animal B facilitated it to get his voyeuristic kick from it. I believe he may also maybe homoerotic turned on by Animal A. And of course both of them thought they were far too smarts for everyone & the could deflect away any suspicion with their smartness. This was exampled by Animal B attempt to manipulate the Gardai questioning him. They both did the crime, now let the little b@st@rds do the time, released preferable when they are suitable for zimmer frames. Vile scum.


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    #7210
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Yes the satanic club thing sounded like the typical thing some teenagers do to make a club with the cool kids and exclude anyone who is considered uncool. I really don't see anything interesting or unusual with it.


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    #7211
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,130 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    When questioned by the Gardai about this satanic club Boy A had no information about satanic rituals, sounds like a club they thought sounded cool but didn't practice any of the rituals


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    #7212
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    When questioned by the Gardai about this satanic club Boy A had no information about satanic rituals, sounds like a club they thought sounded cool but didn't practice any of the rituals

    Yeah that's typical young teenage behaviour.


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    #7213
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Caquas


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yeah that's typical young teenage behaviour.

    Lying to the Gardai? Yeah. Typical for teenage rapists and murderers.

    Or do you mean organising a Satanic Club? That’s a scary thought!

    The Gardai took it seriously enough during the investigation.
    Satanism arose again when, during one interview, Daly asked Boy B if May 14th, the day Ana was murdered, had any relevance. “That’s doomsday, isn’t it?” the detective asked.

    Before the interview Daly had put the date into Google and was brought to a website called Satan’s Rapture, which featured a calendar stating the world would end on May 14th. The boy said the date held no significance for him and he was not familiar with the satanic calendar.

    http://https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriégel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

    They didn’t drop this line of investigation because it was insignificant. They simply didn’t need to prove motive to get conviction.

    Incidentally, I don’t buy the IT claim that Garda Daly simply googled “14 May” and was taken to a Satanic website. Try googling it yourself, there’s nothing about Satan. More likely Garda Daly found evidence which pointed him to the Satanic website but that evidence was inadmissible so he came up with “I just googled it”. Whatever the explanation, the Gardai seriously investigated this Satanic Club.

    Strangely, there was no evidence in court about the boy’s computer searches. Was that because he “lost” his smartphones? Or was he the only teenage boy in Ireland who was not online?


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    #7214
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Caquas


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    I don't think this was ever a factor & in the actual assault there is absolutely no evidence that there was any satanic rituals carried out. I believe its all much simpler in Animal A is a blood thirsty sadistic killer while Animal B facilitated it to get his voyeuristic kick from it. I believe he may also maybe homoerotic turned on by Animal A. And of course both of them thought they were far too smarts for everyone & the could deflect away any suspicion with their smartness. This was exampled by Animal B attempt to manipulate the Gardai questioning him. They both did the crime, now let the little b@st@rds do the time, released preferable when they are suitable for zimmer frames. Vile scum.

    A facile conclusion that explains nothing but raises a disturbing question: how many teenage would-be murderer/rapists are there in Ireland?

    I believe they are extremely rare, fewer than 1 in a 100,000, and this terrible crime was unprecedented in Ireland. But then how would you explain that two of them were sitting together in the same class in a Community College in Leixlip? The odds would be in the trillions unless there was some motivating factor.


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    #7215
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Caquas wrote: »
    Or do you mean organising a Satanic Club? That’s a scary thought!

    It's obvious from the fact that they were not the only members of the club that it was just one of those stupid clubs that some kind make. Only letting their friends in and excluding those that they do not consider cool enough.

    They were not the only members, the others had nothing to do with the murder and there was no satanic element to the murder.

    The Garda will investigate all likes of inquiry in a serious case such as this.

    I had already said this but I think you missed it.


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    #7216
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Caquas


    tuxy wrote: »
    It's obvious from the fact that they were not the only members of the club that it was just one of those stupid clubs that some kind make. Only letting their friends in and excluding those that they do not consider cool enough.

    They were not the only members, the others had nothing to do with the murder and there was no satanic element to the murder.

    The Garda will investigate all likes of inquiry in a serious case such as this.

    I had already said this but I think you missed it.

    I saw your post but I disagree. This does not look like a random kids club, the Satanic element seems to have been central and its organisation was elaborate. And the Gardai did, in fact, investigate it seriously, as I showed earlier.

    I am not suggesting that other members of the club were involved in this terrible crime but, like the investigating Gardai, I do think there is a linkage. At the very least, it brought these two boys together with an agenda that was, literally, Satanic. The rules of the club required pledges by its members. Was this rape/murder a satanic pledge?

    You don’t have to believe in Satan to consider this possibility. What matters is that those boys believed. Note that the boys played down the significance of the club (and you believe them) but they never said they’d didn’t believe in Satan or that they were never his followers I.e. they never renounced Satan, even when facing the Gardai, the court and their families. Nor did they show Anna’s grieving parents any remorse, although they were very sorry they’d been caught.

    These are uncomfortable facts in modern Ireland.


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    #7217
    mrjoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    Caquas wrote: »
    A facile conclusion that explains nothing but raises a disturbing question: how many teenage would-be murderer/rapists are there in Ireland?

    I believe they are extremely rare, fewer than 1 in a 100,000, and this terrible crime was unprecedented in Ireland. But then how would you explain that two of them were sitting together in the same class in a Community College in Leixlip? The odds would be in the trillions unless there was some motivating factor.


    Where is the evidence of the satanic input to the crime? Animal A wore a ghoulish mask but that indicates a fascination with death & violence & he acting out being a beast.This beast it would seem was driven by the stimulation he got from inflicting savage violence & sexual assault. Satanism is all about ritualism.


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    #7218
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Kids and adults can go down strange paths . Dark paths that are often unfathomable. The best we can do is create a mental health service that provides help for troubled teens. Not the joke we have now


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    #7219
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Caquas


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    Where is the evidence of the satanic input to the crime? Animal A wore a ghoulish mask but that indicates a fascination with death & violence & he acting out being a beast.This beast it would seem was driven by the stimulation he got from inflicting savage violence & sexual assault. Satanism is all about ritualism.

    Read my earlier posts. Boy B was clearly into Satanism. He organised a Satanic Homework Club with Boy B. Do you think their terrible crime and their
    fascination with death & violence
    was unrelated to their interest in Satanism?

    Was there legal proof? No, but that doesn’t prevent us drawing our own conclusions


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    #7220
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Boy B has sacked his legal team ahead of his appeal which was to be held today..

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-b-dismisses-lawyers-appeal-against-conviction-for-ana-kriegel-murder-will-not-proceed-today-995903.html

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #7221
    Agus
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Agus


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Kids and adults can go down strange paths . Dark paths that are often unfathomable. The best we can do is create a mental health service that provides help for troubled teens.


    It would be extremely unfair and stigmatising to people with mental illness to assume that this situation must have been caused by mental illness, or that mental health services could somehow prevent this kind of situation ever happening again. Whether or not the perpetrators in this particular case actually had any mental illness, adults and teenagers with mental illness do not have any kind of monopoly on committing horrific acts.


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    #7222
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Agus wrote: »
    It would be extremely unfair and stigmatising to people with mental illness to assume that this situation must have been caused by mental illness, or that mental health services could somehow prevent this kind of situation ever happening again. Whether or not the perpetrators in this particular case actually had any mental illness, adults and teenagers with mental illness do not have any kind of monopoly on committing horrific acts.

    Well said, there's an old saying that has a lot of truth in it, "there's no such thing as a bad kid there's only bad parents."

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #7223
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,055 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Agus wrote: »
    It would be extremely unfair and stigmatising to people with mental illness to assume that this situation must have been caused by mental illness, or that mental health services could somehow prevent this kind of situation ever happening again. Whether or not the perpetrators in this particular case actually had any mental illness, adults and teenagers with mental illness do not have any kind of monopoly on committing horrific acts.
    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Well said, there's an old saying that has a lot of truth in it, "there's no such thing as a bad kid there's only bad parents."

    Bit judgemental on both counts.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #7224
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Bit judgemental on both counts.

    Says the person casting judgement.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #7225
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,055 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Says the person expressing an opinion.

    FYP

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #7226
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    New legal team appointed..

    https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/boy-b-pins-hopes-on-top-law-firm-for-appeal-over-anas-murder-39205052.html

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #7227
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,320 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    New legal team appointed..

    https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/boy-b-pins-hopes-on-top-law-firm-for-appeal-over-anas-murder-39205052.html

    Big legal fees there.


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    #7228
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,686 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Agus wrote: »
    It would be extremely unfair and stigmatising to people with mental illness to assume that this situation must have been caused by mental illness, or that mental health services could somehow prevent this kind of situation ever happening again. Whether or not the perpetrators in this particular case actually had any mental illness, adults and teenagers with mental illness do not have any kind of monopoly on committing horrific acts.

    Well bloody said.

    What is with society’s rush to always bring this “mental health” into anything depraved that people do.

    So what made you do it? Ah, sure you know yourself. The owl mental health’s been acting up!!!

    How about just nasty and pure bad “kids?”


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    #7229
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,686 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Well said, there's an old saying that has a lot of truth in it, "there's no such thing as a bad kid there's only bad parents."

    That’s a crock of Sh1t as well...

    Plenty wonderful and caring and loving parents whose kids are bad bad apples!!


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    #7230
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,686 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Bad enough to have murdered her but to add insult they lied through their teeth and their parents went along with it.

    Adding lies upon lies. Nobody was fooled.

    Awful to have put the victims parents and family through such a terrible trial

    Shame on the murderers and also the parents of these scum

    Fully agree here

    What sort of parents would encourage and condone this? Because it is most very likely that the parents are behind this

    You stand by and love your kids no matter what? Another crock of sh1t...

    If that was my son that did this to another human being, I would gladly turn the key and see him rot....


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    #7231
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    walshb wrote: »
    That’s a crock of Sh1t as well...

    Plenty wonderful and caring and loving parents, whose kids are bad bad apples!!

    Think the Dad roaring and shouting in Court revealed exactly what kind of person he was


This discussion has been closed.
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