Climate Action Plan

jmayo

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Ireland
Flooding - 90% plus of it caused by poor planning in building houses where they should never have been allowed in the first place or as a result of zero clearing of blockages of current drainage. Walking around Dublin City Centre recently at least 80% plus of the drains are critically blocked, does anyone do any kind of inspection lately or is that only done when someone drowns that they decide to look at them?
Bus lanes - If a bus lane doesn't have verifiable bus use every 5 minutes at all times it should be open to all traffic as it's a complete waste of a criritical resource.
Cars - Allowing diesel cars in the city centre is a good idea to kill people, less people less pollution.
Cars - Encourage people to keep older cars rather than having a new car built/imported for them, reduce motor tax on 10 year old cars to €500 at a max regardless of engine capacity.

I always remember driving the N4 out of Carrick On Shannon towards Sligo and the land along the Shannon used to be flooded after heavy rain.
Lo and behold back in early 2000 they decided to build townhouses, site a Supervalu and Supermacs on said land.
Then one year while back the place literally turned into Venice.

On the other side of town there is also area that floods, but they still built retail part on it and had to put stilts down to raise another part above the almost year long high water line.

Worse still now sections of land that acted as flood off areas and extra soakage are now under concrete and tarmac meaning you shove the problem further along and make the problem worse somewhere else.

The clowns just look at current emissions and not what emissions are created in building and shipping that ultra new high tech car.

Professor Moriarty

jmayo wrote: »

I always remember driving the N4 out of Carrick On Shannon towards Sligo and the land along the Shannon used to be flooded after heavy rain.
Lo and behold back in early 2000 they decided to build townhouses, site a Supervalu and Supermacs on said land.
Then one year while back the place literally turned into Venice.

On the other side of town there is also area that floods, but they still built retail part on it and had to put stilts down to raise another part above the almost year long high water line.

Worse still now sections of land that acted as flood off areas and extra soakage are now under concrete and tarmac meaning you shove the problem further along and make the problem worse somewhere else.

The clowns just look at current emissions and not what emissions are created in building and shipping that ultra new high tech car.

At least the "clowns" are well-intended. Unlike pig ignorant climate change deniers.

Jimmy Garlic

As the Irish government prepares Ireland to take it in the ass yet again for their lords and masters in Brussels so German diesel cars can be sold in south America it couldn't be any clearer that their climate pontificating is nothing more than a money making scheme. Bend over. Open the markets for more slash and burn beef because Germany says so. Rainforest? What about it, Germany gets what Germany wants, they will have their fun, and that's all that matters.

Thelonious Monk

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

As the Irish government prepares Ireland to take it in the ass yet again for their lords and masters in Brussels so German diesel cars can be sold in south America it couldn't be any clearer that their climate pontificating is nothing more than a money making scheme. Bend over. Open the markets for more slash and burn beef because Germany says so. Rainforest? What about it, Germany gets what Germany wants, they will have their fun, and that's all that matters.

We can hardly give out to others for chopping down trees, ours is gone a long time and we haven’t exactly replaced them. I don’t understand why so many people are beef farmers in Ireland if it seems to be such a constant struggle for them. Do something else.

Emme

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

As the Irish government prepares Ireland to take it in the ass yet again for their lords and masters in Brussels so German diesel cars can be sold in south America it couldn't be any clearer that their climate pontificating is nothing more than a money making scheme. Bend over. Open the markets for more slash and burn beef because Germany says so. Rainforest? What about it, Germany gets what Germany wants, they will have their fun, and that's all that matters.

The Irish taxpayer (particularly farmers) must make sacrifices so that German SUVs can be sold to South American beef farmers. Alejandro, Pedro, Miguel, Sebastián et al. will need the SUVs to drive around their vast cattle ranches. After all those South American beef farmers will be supplying the EU with meat.

In the meantime Irish beef farmers will have to dramatically scale down production in order to reduce methane emissions from cattle and stop vegans from getting offended.

The vegans don't want to destroy the planet with CO2 so they won't be flying to South America to protest about SUV driving ranchers flying their beef 7,500 miles to the EU. That's a hell of a lot of methane and CO2 from South America's end.

Luckily there will be no emissions from Ireland's end because it will be metaphorically occupied by the rod of the EU. Ireland is a great little country, we are always willing to accommodate!

Jimmy Garlic

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We can hardly give out to others for chopping down trees, ours is gone a long time and we haven’t exactly replaced them. I don’t understand why so many people are beef farmers in Ireland if it seems to be such a constant struggle for them. Do something else.

Spoken like someone who knows little about farming. Cattle have been raised in Ireland for at least 5000 years. The conditions here suit beef farming, they suit livestock rearing in general. In Brazil they have to cut down an area of forest, burn it spray it with copious amounts of herbicides, some of which have been banned in Europe for decades. When the soil depletes and/or erodes they move on to the next area, rinse and repeat.

That's ok with you is it? Seems to be fine with the Irish government who will vote for it and do as they are told. The green party has nothing to say, complete silence from them regarding the issue.

Thelonious Monk

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Spoken like someone who knows little about farming. Cattle have been raised in Ireland for at least 5000 years. The conditions here suit beef farming, they suit livestock rearing in general. In Brazil they have to cut down an area of forest, burn it spray it with copious amounts of herbicides, some of which have been banned in Europe for decades. When the soil depletes and/or erodes they move on to the next area, rinse and repeat.

That's ok with you is it? Seems to be fine with the Irish government who will vote for it and do as they are told. The green party has nothing to say, complete silence from them regarding the issue.

Who's forcing people to buy this beef? Will they be selling it in Ireland? Surely if Irish beef is better and more environmentally friendly, people will buy that no?

Thelonious Monk

Emme wrote: »

In the meantime Irish beef farmers will have to dramatically scale down production in order to reduce methane emissions from cattle and stop vegans from getting offended.

Who suggested they'd ever be scaling down? If anything they'll be increasing output in the coming years.
Also why are you going on about vegans? What do they have to do with this?

gozunda

Emme wrote: »

The Irish taxpayer (particularly farmers) must make sacrifices so that German SUVs can be sold to South American beef farmers. Alejandro, Pedro, Miguel, Sebastián et al. will need the SUVs to drive around their vast cattle ranches. After all those South American beef farmers will be supplying the EU with meat.

In the meantime Irish beef farmers will have to dramatically scale down production in order to reduce methane emissions from cattle and stop vegans from getting offended.

The vegans don't want to destroy the planet with CO2 so they won't be flying to South America to protest about SUV driving ranchers flying their beef 7,500 miles to the EU. That's a hell of a lot of methane and CO2 from South America's end.

Luckily there will be no emissions from Ireland's end because it will be metaphorically occupied by the rod of the EU. Ireland is a great little country, we are always willing to accommodate!

You jest. But there's a hell of a lot of truth there.

That's the best summing up of the current status quo I read in a long time tbh. Thanks.

Emme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who suggested they'd ever be scaling down? If anything they'll be increasing output in the coming years.

Hopefully. However if the EU is going to be flooded with South American beef (check out the Farmers Journal and farming websites for details) it might affect the demand for Irish beef, it will certainly drive down the price.

Ireland is getting beaten particularly hard with the climate change stick for a small island on the edge of Europe. We are getting it every which way and sadly that includes methane from cattle productions.

Perhaps Irish beef will become a premium product which will cost more than the South American beef. Hopefully that will be the case otherwise production will not be worthwhile because Irish farmers have to jump through so many hoops already. That costs money.

Thelonious Monk

Emme wrote: »

Ireland is getting beaten particularly hard with the climate change stick for a small island on the edge of Europe. We are getting it every which way and sadly that includes methane from cattle productions.

We're not, we're doing nothing about it, relax.
Plus some say Argentinian beef is the best in the world, hardly an inferior product.

Thelonious Monk

Funny how Irish farmers suddenly give a f*ck about the environment and trees and carbon in brazil, lol. You care about money that's all.

Jupiter Mulligan

Emme wrote: »

Ireland is getting beaten particularly hard with the climate change stick for a small island on the edge of Europe. We are getting it every which way and sadly that includes methane from cattle productions.

Who is doing the beating?

Might it be the same EU that is currently throwing tens of millions annually at Irish farmers?

s7ryf3925pivug

Scaling back beef production
- would mitigate the big fines we're facing for failing to reduce emissions
- would reduce emissions that contribute to global warming, which has potentially catastrophic effects.

This is a good idea. Nothing to do with imaginary vegan stereotypes getting offended.

Brazil's position on climate change is a major problem. If no diplomatic or reasonable solution can be reached with them they should be viewed as a rogue state. They should not be emulated, or competed with on the same terms.

Climate change mitigation is going to be contentious, and implementing change in a fair and efficient way is inherently challenging. The measures that are going ahead are what suits those in power, not what are most efficient or fair. It's up to people to push for change to happen in a fair way and efficient way.

The first step in that is to quantify how much different activities contribute to greenhouse gases. Air travel is a huge contributor, but I've heard nothing mentioned about taxing the absurdly cheap flights. Coal and peat burning is a huge contributor but the government changed their mind about making the former illegal domestically nationwide. Bog destruction is a huge contributor but they defy EU directives to stop. Meanwhile their proposed measures of retrofits are going to cost a huge amount of money, and are unlikely to be fair in terms of who pays and who benefits.

jmayo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We can hardly give out to others for chopping down trees, ours is gone a long time and we haven’t exactly replaced them. I don’t understand why so many people are beef farmers in Ireland if it seems to be such a constant struggle for them. Do something else.

The highlighted words sums it up perfectly.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Funny how Irish farmers suddenly give a f*ck about the environment and trees and carbon in brazil, lol. You care about money that's all.

You really have the horn to have a go at farmers every chance you get.

Ulysses Gaze

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

At least the "clowns" are well-intended. Unlike pig ignorant climate change deniers.

Because that will end the climate crisis.

Good intentions and virtue signalling.

Professor Moriarty

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Because that will end the climate crisis.

Good intentions and virtue signalling.

Good intentions are better that sarcastic and irrelevant oneliners from people who are too afraid to accept the truth.

Emme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We're not, we're doing nothing about it, relax.
Plus some say Argentinian beef is the best in the world, hardly an inferior product.

OK, if I ever go to Buenos Aires or Patagonia I might try some. However in Ireland I would rather have Irish beef rather than something that has been flown 4,500 miles across the sea.

Thelonious Monk

Emme wrote: »

OK, if I ever go to Buenos Aires or Patagonia I might try some. However in Ireland I would rather have Irish beef rather than something that has been flown 4,500 miles across the sea.

I hardly think we'll be replacing Irish beef with Argentinian beef in Ireland, you needn't worry.
I was in Chile about 10 years ago and there was Irish beef in the supermarkets, which seems nuts given they border with Argentina.

Emme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I hardly think we'll be replacing Irish beef with Argentinian beef in Ireland, you needn't worry.
I was in Chile about 10 years ago and there was Irish beef in the supermarkets, which seems nuts given they border with Argentina.

It seems strange all right.

jmayo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I hardly think we'll be replacing Irish beef with Argentinian beef in Ireland, you needn't worry.
I was in Chile about 10 years ago and there was Irish beef in the supermarkets, which seems nuts given they border with Argentina.

Chile and Argentina haven't always seen eye to eye.

They nearly went to war in 1978 and Argentina had their eye on Chile's Beagle islands down in Tieraa del fuego after they sorted out the Falklands.
That was why Chile backed Britain.

Also they are in different trading blocks AFAIK.

Kivaro

Saw the tail end of a segment on Sky News this morning about 2 women trying to get people to stop flying for one year. 10,000 people have already signed up to commit to not taking any flights in 2019.

Is this flight shaming?
For the families or single people who take the one holiday overseas every year, does skipping that one flight make any real difference to the progress of climate change? It wouldn't hurt too much if you lived in France or Spain, but people living in Ireland are not guaranteed summers, so it is a big sacrifice for them.
And it's just a matter of time before our current government pops a climate change levy on flights we book in the future.

Or is all just symbolism?

Emme

Kivaro wrote: »

Saw the tail end of a segment on Sky News this morning about 2 women trying to get people to stop flying for one year. 10,000 people have already signed up to commit to not taking any flights in 2019.

Is this flight shaming?
For the families or single people who take the one holiday overseas every year, does skipping that one flight make any real difference to the progress of climate change? It wouldn't hurt too much if you lived in France or Spain, but people living in Ireland are not guaranteed summers, so it is a big sacrifice for them.
And it's just a matter of time before our current government pops a climate change levy on flights we book in the future.

Or is all just symbolism?

It's typical - the little people have to pay extra taxes and sacrifice whatever small pleasures they have to alleviate their increasingly miserable lives while the rich/politicians fly and pollute with impunity.

_Brian

gozunda wrote: »

With regard to renewalables and green energy- the fact is that China is leading the way in the manufacture, production and selling of much of this technology to the west - with an near exponential growth in these industries there.

All well and good - until it is pointed out that that the bulk of Chinese industries are fueled by coal powered power stations and that China is the biggest emitter of CO2 in the world ...

Who is kidding who here I wonder ...

They are also implementing massive green technology on the ground at a staggering scale.

Thelonious Monk

Emme wrote: »

It's typical - the little people have to pay extra taxes and sacrifice whatever small pleasures they have to alleviate their increasingly miserable lives while the rich/politicians fly and pollute with impunity.

Where is this happening? Everyone in the developed world flies nowadays.

_Brian

Colton Scrawny Dude wrote: »

Scaling back beef production
- would mitigate the big fines we're facing for failing to reduce emissions
- would reduce emissions that contribute to global warming, which has potentially catastrophic effects.

This is a good idea. Nothing to do with imaginary vegan stereotypes getting offended.

Brazil's position on climate change is a major problem. If no diplomatic or reasonable solution can be reached with them they should be viewed as a rogue state. They should not be emulated, or competed with on the same terms.

Climate change mitigation is going to be contentious, and implementing change in a fair and efficient way is inherently challenging. The measures that are going ahead are what suits those in power, not what are most efficient or fair. It's up to people to push for change to happen in a fair way and efficient way.

The first step in that is to quantify how much different activities contribute to greenhouse gases. Air travel is a huge contributor, but I've heard nothing mentioned about taxing the absurdly cheap flights. Coal and peat burning is a huge contributor but the government changed their mind about making the former illegal domestically nationwide. Bog destruction is a huge contributor but they defy EU directives to stop. Meanwhile their proposed measures of retrofits are going to cost a huge amount of money, and are unlikely to be fair in terms of who pays and who benefits.

I see emissions from air travel is projected to increase 700%. And still people will expect €10 flights to Amsterdam.

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

I see emissions from air travel is projected to increase 700%. And still people will expect €10 flights to Amsterdam.

Yeah sure we're getting a new runway. Flights are still cheap as ever and more routes keep opening up. The whole green movement thing is a few concerned voices and many of us know we probably need to change our ways but don't want to be inconvenienced so we wont. Politicians have to pretend to care about the environment a little too, but all they care about is money and growing the economy. I really don't know why anyone worries about vegans and climate change activists etc, flights, meat, cheap goods from China etc, we're getting more and more of these things by the day, we have more choices and more stuff than ever before.

Emme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Where is this happening? Everyone in the developed world flies nowadays.

That's the point. The climate change lobby want that to stop. They want the ordinary man and woman in the street to stop flying because it's bad for the planet. Never mind the billionaires and politicians flying around in their private jets, it's the ordinary people flying who are the problem.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah sure we're getting a new runway. Flights are still cheap as ever and more routes keep opening up. The whole green movement thing is a few concerned voices and many of us know we probably need to change our ways but don't want to be inconvenienced so we wont. Politicians have to pretend to care about the environment a little too, but all they care about is money and growing the economy. I really don't know why anyone worries about vegans and climate change activists etc, flights, meat, cheap goods from China etc, we're getting more and more of these things by the day, we have more choices and more stuff than ever before.

I don’t think people worry about vegans.

People, including myself take exception to much of the lies and propaganda that is spread by extremist vegan movements. Currently pedalling lots of climate nonsense as idly fits the addenda of their beliefs rather than anything else, extremist veganism by the back door. Illegally occupying farms also makes them a target for “dislike” in general.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Where is this happening? Everyone in the developed world flies nowadays.

I’ve literally been on three journies in the last 16 years where I’ve used a plane.