5,459 applicants turned down an offer of social housing since 2016.

El_Bee

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

This homeless crisis is greatly exaggerated.

As I have said before, we actually have 4 issues that have been mashed together by activists (well meaning or otherwise), politicians (the bigger the crisis, the more votes I can hoover up if I say I'll tackle it) and the media (obvious why they would sensationalize it)


1)An actual homeless problem, 1 person sleeping rough is too many, but what's the solution here? What's the correlation between homelessness and drug abuse or other personal issues? Will we ever have a government/civil service that can create a long term program to help people in these situations back into society?



2) the bottom rung of the property ladder has effectively been removed, both by house prices exceeding boom levels and banks STILL unwilling to lend to young couples, forcing them to rent long term, I'm sure we all have anecdotal stories from people we know who are still jumping through hoops in the hope of obtaining a mortgage. This which leads to:


3)A combination of rents exceeding boom levels and a strain on supply caused in part by 2), and also by landlords exiting the market because of being legislated against and being painted as the enemy of the people by the media (funnily enough the exodus of landlords will see and increase in the evil "[insert bird name] funds".


and finally:

4) the "I've 6 kids I'm entitled to a house so what if I've been evicted 3 times already I'M ENTITLED to a house near my mates and mammy who will mind them when I cant be bothered" group, the squeakiest wheel of the 3 and the one most likely to get the grease, these have latched onto the previous 3 problems and depressingly are being treated as the biggest victims of them all.

Kivaro

JupiterKid wrote: »

Actually I am an academic with a PhD and many peer reviewed publications on the subject.. but sure don't kake my word for it. Feel free to rant on....

Maybe we won't ......

What we don't need to solve real life problems in our society are academics. The vast majority of them have rose-tinted views on how to fix societal problems, and unfortunately liberal politicians grasp onto these concepts to further their agendas.

gibgodsman

Its not a homeless crises, its a housing crises, looked on Daft the other day for somewhere to rent in Navan, where I currently Rent and Work full time. I currently pay €575 a month on rent for a 1 bed apartment, price is great, moved in 2013. There was 3 properties for rent in all of Navan, cheapest was €1250 a month and was a 1 bed apartment.... in the same apartment complex I live in....

There is absolutely a housing crises, not a homeless crises.

KrustyUCC

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever happened the people who turned down new taxpayer-funded houses because they didn't come with stables for their horses?

That was a dream After Hours thread.

Thurles fiasco nearing solution. http://tippfm.com/news/housing/cabra...ation-remains/

“Tipperary County Council’s agreement with Traveller families at Cabragh Bridge has been described as a step in the right direction by Councillors.

The stand-off began as families believed that the local authority had agreed to providing stables – however the local authority says that’s not the case.

Following mediation, it’s been agreed that the current site will be cleared, electricity will be removed, and it will also be secured, so there can be no further illegal encampments there.

However, the stables on the old site will stay, as they’re not on council owned land, and they’ve also been in place for more than 7 years.

Councillor Seamus Hanafin says that he’s happy with some aspects of the agreement, but it’s difficult to be happy with everything.”

Gatling

_blaaz wrote: »

.

Obviously didn't think they actually might have to turn on the heating

A 5 year suspension from the housing list? Surely there's a better way to solve the problem. People who actually know how to game the system will find ways around it, and people who are genuinely in need will probably end up being the ones to suffer. 5 years is a very long time to be waiting to get put on what is essentially a waiting list itself.

Does anyone on here know enough about these housing lists to offer a reasonable alternative?

Perhaps it shouldn't even be tackled on a housing-list level - maybe there's a solution on a more holistic social protection level that could be suggested?

El_Bee

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Thurles fiasco nearing solution. http://tippfm.com/news/housing/cabra...ation-remains/

“Tipperary County Council’s agreement with Traveller families at Cabragh Bridge has been described as a step in the right direction by Councillors.

The stand-off began as families believed that the local authority had agreed to providing stables – however the local authority says that’s not the case.

Following mediation, it’s been agreed that the current site will be cleared, electricity will be removed, and it will also be secured, so there can be no further illegal encampments there.

However, the stables on the old site will stay, as they’re not on council owned land, and they’ve also been in place for more than 7 years.

Councillor Seamus Hanafin says that he’s happy with some aspects of the agreement, but it’s difficult to be happy with everything.”

Imagine living completely outside the laws of the land, but still availing of all the amenities and provisions available, what a life they have.

Kivaro

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

A hotel room is not a home. If you think it is try living in one with your wife and two kids and not allowed cook for them or get them to school everyday.

I wouldn't put my wife and two kids in that predicament in the first place. There is so much available work out there that this situation should never arise to able-bodied parents .......... who represent the vast majority abusing the housing system.

Boggles

Kivaro wrote: »

I wouldn't put my wife and two kids in that predicament in the first place.

What if you died suddenly?

Would you get a lucrative haunting job somewhere and support your family?

Fúcking Hell, the Daily Mail readership must be on the up. :rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30

Boggles wrote: »

What if you died suddenly?

Would you get a lucrative haunting job somewhere and support your family?

Fúcking Hell, the Daily Mail readership must be on the up. :rolleyes:

No one has a problem with genuine people getting all the help and support, especially a partner who’s husband died.

But we all know the type that poster is referring to.

Boggles

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No one has a problem with genuine people getting all the help and support, especially a partner who’s husband died.

But we all know the type that poster is referring to.

The poster was referring to himself.

Kivaro wrote: »

I wouldn't put my wife and two kids in that predicament in the first place.

Bobblehats

Were they applicants for asylum? They’re going to need a bigger house.

suicide_circus

why is social housing rent not stopped at source? explain that to me

Boggles

sugarman wrote: »

Boils my piss as someone slaving away for the last 10 years

Really? WTF do you work at? :eek:

sugarman wrote: »

looking after every cent I earn in the hope of one day being able to own a place of my own. That includes having had to make major decisions in life, like not having kids or getting married before I can actually afford to. To not be go out on weekend long benders I can't afford nor need. To not order takeaways several nights a week when I can cook for myself.

I'm confused.

So you would love to live in a shared hub, smoking and eating pizza?

Your urine has literally reached 100 degrees celsius you are so mad and jealous.



Wouldn't want that life personally. Not for a minute.

I'm quite thankful I don't actually.

Wheeliebin30

Boggles wrote: »

Really? WTF do you work at? :eek:




I'm confused.

So you would love to live in a shared hub, smoking and eating pizza?

Your urine has literally reached 100 degrees celsius you are so mad and jealous.



Wouldn't want that life personally. Not for a minute.

I'm quite thankful I don't actually.

I think it’s more your taxes funding this lifestyle when they could be spent improving other things to benefit future generations.

Or people blaming the government when in reality it’s not the governments fault.

LuasSimon

There is no excuse for people not working in Ireland at this point .
Those that are in low wage employment should most definitely be helped with housing but those that refuse to work should not receive handout after handout .... its not far to the 98% working and trying to pay their way in life .

Boggles

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I think it’s more your taxes funding this lifestyle when they could be spent improving other things to benefit future generations.

What's that got to do with him not been able to have children, benders and a house?

gibgodsman

LuasSimon wrote: »

Those that are in low wage employment should most definitely be helped with housing but those that refuse to work should not receive handout after handout .... its not far to the 98% working and trying to pay their way in life .

Completely agree with this, this is exactly what the HAP Scheme should be looking to do, not supporting those not willing to work at all

Stop moaning ffs

LuasSimon wrote: »

There is no excuse for people not working in Ireland at this point .
Those that are in low wage employment should most definitely be helped with housing but those that refuse to work should not receive handout after handout .... its not far to the 98% working and trying to pay their way in life .

Completely agree and I think a cultural shift is needed here. Raise the minimum wage to not just a living wage but an attractive wage. And promote the benefits of that.

Then you get pushback from SMEs and corporations and
Bearing mind mind nurses still aren’t even back at 2007 pay parity.

But if you raised the minimum wage to an attractive standard you’d see the game change and ripples would flow out from that. People have more money to spend etc etc

El_Bee

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Completely agree and I think a cultural shift is needed here. Raise the minimum wage to not just a living wage but an attractive wage. And promote the benefits of that.

Then you get pushback from SMEs and corporations and
Bearing mind mind nurses still aren’t even back at 2007 pay parity.

But if you raised the minimum wage to an attractive standard you’d see the game change and ripples would flow out from that. People have more money to spend etc etc

The minimum wage goes up, rents go up, electricity, gas, broadband etc. go up too, also raising minimum wage to unrealistic levels has been catastrophic to workers when tried:



https://fee.org/articles/new-york-city-experienced-worst-decline-in-restaurant-jobs-since-911-after-15-minimum-wage-win/

gibgodsman

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Completely agree and I think a cultural shift is needed here. Raise the minimum wage to not just a living wage but an attractive wage. And promote the benefits of that.

Then you get pushback from SMEs and corporations and
Bearing mind mind nurses still aren’t even back at 2007 pay parity.

But if you raised the minimum wage to an attractive standard you’d see the game change and ripples would flow out from that. People have more money to spend etc etc

The Minimum wage is a myth. No matter how much you increase it, you will not be earning more, your money will be worth less as the cost of everything else will increase with it. That is basic Economics.

The only real way to get an incentive would be to offer real incentives after 1,2,3+ years of working for a company.

LuasSimon

gibgodsman wrote: »

The Minimum wage is a myth. No matter how much you increase it, you will not be earning more, your money will be worth less as the cost of everything else will increase with it. That is basic Economics.

The only real way to get an incentive would be to offer real incentives after 1,2,3+ years of working for a company.

A fair point ... but the main point should be that someone who refuses to work should not be as well off or in some cases better off than people who work ?

As a country for too long we have been soft on those who refuse to work especially our own ethnic group !

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

Actually I am an academic..............

Oh right.
Well done.
Probably on the housing list yourself.

sugarman

sugarman wrote: »

......... They continuously order take aways .. usually a stack of Dominoes or Four Star Pizza, even though they've access to kitchen/cooking facilities. Their activities include sitting in the pub on the corner all weekend making runs across to the bookies................

Wasters.
And they'll all get their forever home eventually and their kids (numerous no doubt) will expect the same.

InTheShadows

Get Real wrote: »

This is a simple tactic by Murphy to be seen to be doing something. I agree with the policy.

But for jaysus sake, he's a Minister for housing, trying to divert blame for a national housing crisis on .001% of the entire population.

100th of a single percent!

Even all those waiting on social housing is a drop in the ocean. There are many, many more working people, who don't apply for/aren't eligible for social housing. They don't want a free house, they want to actually pay for their own house, but can't. Even when working full time, and fully contributing to the economic machine.

If he's trying to say that a 100th of a percent of the population are the reason why a post man, or teacher, or hotel manager can't buy a house, well that's bo!!ocks.

Murphy and the gaeler OP here don't care about facts. They have an agenda to push to divert attention from actual issues.

Boggles

gibgodsman wrote: »

The Minimum wage is a myth. No matter how much you increase it, you will not be earning more, your money will be worth less as the cost of everything else will increase with it. That is basic Economics.

No it isn't. :pac:

The minimum wage is set or at least it should be, to be higher than inflation.

It was actually 20 years old last month in the UK, employment rates have never been higher.

It's a very good thing if done correctly.

InTheShadows

LuasSimon wrote: »

There is no excuse for people not working in Ireland at this point .
Those that are in low wage employment should most definitely be helped with housing but those that refuse to work should not receive handout after handout .... its not far to the 98% working and trying to pay their way in life .

I'm sorry but as an employer there are some people on long term benefits I wouldn't hire in a fit. Some of these people are never going to work again and that's a fact.

ThunbergsAreGo

InTheShadows wrote: »

I'm sorry but as an employer there are some people on long term benefits I wouldn't hire in a fit. Some of these people are never going to work again and that's a fact.

100% however this means we should be targeting the next generation of long termers and give them a real reason to work before it becomes a way of life to them.

And that can be done by making long term less attractive, or making work more attractive

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Oh right.
Well done.
Probably on the housing list yourself.

Why are you attacking that poster? Most of us interested in the housing problem would listen closer to somebody who is a planner than to somebody who doesn't have expertise in the area. Similarly, if you've studied enough on an area most people would give your views more time than the views of somebody who hasn't that expertise.

Go to 1:20 on this Dara Ó Briain clip and start listening for a couple of minutes as it's very relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYba0m6ztE

Gimme A Pound

sugarman wrote: »

Spot on, I live near a "homeless hub" and the vast majority of these parents(Not all) never cease to surprise me that they can afford to dress themselves and the kids head to toe in the latest designer fashions. Stand smoking day after day, every day at the reception door. They continuously order take aways .. usually a stack of Dominoes or Four Star Pizza, even though they've access to kitchen/cooking facilities. Their activities include sitting in the pub on the corner all weekend making runs across to the bookies.

Id walk by the place 4 to 8 times a day going to from/work, I see the same faces every day pissing away their money ..and they've the neck to be complaining and selling their sob stories that they can't afford housing.

Boils my piss as someone slaving away for the last 10 years looking after every cent I earn in the hope of one day being able to own a place of my own. That includes having had to make major decisions in life, like not having kids or getting married before I can actually afford to. To not be go out on weekend long benders I can't afford nor need. To not order takeaways several nights a week when I can cook for myself.

.. basically to live within my own needs without any of the luxuries in sacrifice for a home.

Absolutely. Great post. And it's completely dishonest and another form of "I'm all right Jack" to dismiss it. Obviously you're not literally slaving but you're working hard. And obviously your urine is not literally boiling - it's just an expression.

Imagine being so self entitled and lacking personal responsibility like the people you've described. But "the government"...

They are unemployable though. Generations of taking and being taught that this is the way to live.