How bad or good is alcohol for society

Strumms

KM792 wrote: »

I drink because I like how it slows you down,almost like a numbing effect.


I find my emotions are more intense without it,does anyone else feel like that?

I’m the same. It would relax me. I’m more chilled, more happy. With others they are more hyper or more sleepy, more giddy and in some cases more aggressive. It’s the unpredictable nature of it that can affect us all in different ways.

Muahahaha

Greyfox wrote: »

It is a fact, its obvious to everyone living in Ireland who looks around them. why do you think nearly everybody drinks?

Thats not the case, depending on what survey you look at somewhere between 20% and 25% of the population do not drink at all. I've read before that Ireland has some of the highest rates of teetotallers anywhere in the world alongside having some of the highest consumption of alcohol in the world.
https://www.thejournal.ie/healthy-ireland-survey-3663240-Oct2017/

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The good.

Light drinking reduces risk of stroke , heart disease and diabetes.

As has been mentioned a number of times thus far on this thread, this is, in fact, untrue and yet another myth propagated by the alcohol companies and their comparatively enormous resources.

Even among educated Irish people, there is a dearth of knowledge about what drink does to the body, and this "moderation is OK" line is the most common representation of that ignorance - an ignorance compounded by a huge misunderstanding of what qualifies as binge drinking and accordingly many people who might self-identify as "moderate drinkers" are actually binge drinkers. To reiterate the latest research: people are much better avoiding alcohol altogether.

The Irish Times: 'Young Irish topped EU binge-drinking table' (October 2017):

Irish people aged 18 to 24 had the highest rates of binge drinking in the European Union, according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO).

The data, released on Wednesday, showed more than a quarter of men and more than 15 per cent of women aged 18 to 24 in Ireland engaged in binge drinking at least once a week in 2014.

Binge drinking is defined as six or more standard drinks in one session, equivalent to three pints of beer or six pub measures of spirits

So, let's be clear here: if somebody drinks 3 pints or more in one session, it is not 'moderate' consumption - they are, in fact, binge drinking unless they want to abnegate the standard medical definition and invent their own in its stead.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Very childish response imo

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not a child.

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

None of his responses were valid. In particular the waffle about the RCC in the 16th century.

You seem to have read something that wasn't written.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Finally contrasting drinking habits outside of the Pale and whiskey taxes is nonsense. Drink was the last thing on a lot of peoples minds during the 1850's.

Another failure of comprehension. The point was, clearly, that culture changes. It is benighted to claim, as far too many Irish people still do, that "It's a central part of our culture to abuse alcohol". The post was showing how drinking culture has evolved throughout the centuries. And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating. An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular. That you condemn somebody who points this historical reality out as a 'puritan' is obscurantism at its finest.

fryup

Drink!

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As has been mentioned a number of times thus far on this thread, this is, in fact, untrue and yet another myth propagated by the alcohol companies and their comparatively enormous resources.

Even among educated Irish people, there is a dearth of knowledge about what drink does to the body, and this "moderation is OK" line is the most common representation of that ignorance - an ignorance compounded by a huge misunderstanding of what qualifies as binge drinking and accordingly many people who might self-identify as "moderate drinkers" are actually binge drinkers. To reiterate the latest research: people are much better avoiding alcohol altogether.

......

You missed this from the thing you pasted in 4 times :

But the study is not the final word on the subject

JupiterKid

As a recovering alkie, I'm not going to get all sanctiomonious about people enjoying the occasional social drink, but the fact that Irish people binge drink, and the massive health and social and crime problems it causes is frankly enormous and the powerful alcohol lobby don't want the Irish public to know the true extent of the problem.

Remember, health effects of excessive alcohol use don't just include accidents and injuries and liver cirroshis, they also include cancers (many types), strokes, seizures, heart disease, diabetes, blood pressure hypertension...need I go on. For pregnant women who drink there is the added risk of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Syndrome.

I would wager a huge huge number of relatively early deaths of Irish people -
particularly men - betwen the ages of 55 and 75 are directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse.

Then there are the social costs - not just broken homes, shattered families, domestic violence, but also lost workplace productivity, depression and other mental health problems, lack of career advancement, educational drop out rates, poverty caused by money devoted drinking (a very big problem I believe in the decades up to the 1990s).

And that doesn't even cover the crime aspects such as violent assaults, murders and manslaughters.

Yes, I suspect the legacy of alcohol ab(use) would be a truly appalling vista to consider in this country...

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.

.

That shows a great gra for teh proper use of the Queens English so it does to be sure

[Deleted User] wrote: »

............And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating.

An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular.
........

Ah, so you are upset really about Arthur Guinness and his Protestant stout giving people everywhere the "drunken Paddy Oirish" ?

That was all hundrerd of years ago and doesn't matter now though - it stuck

But still there is nothing funnier than some lad making an effort to sing rebel songs while swinging a pint of Guinness around

He may as well be waving heineken around and singing " 50 pence flute "

link to save people searching at this hour

interesting thread

might be coincidence
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-staying-sober-is-really-hard-but-life-without-booze-is-magic-4682750-Jun2019/

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.



You seem to have read something that wasn't written.



Another failure of comprehension. The point was, clearly, that culture changes. It is benighted to claim, as far too many Irish people still do, that "It's a central part of our culture to abuse alcohol". The post was showing how drinking culture has evolved throughout the centuries. And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating. An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular. That you condemn somebody who points this historical reality out as a 'puritan' is obscurantism at its finest.

I would have gone for obfuscation here , buts that's possibly why we're different.

Just like taking a drink, sometimes it's also fine to be wrong, sometimes.

Be good, don't take it to hard and thanks for the memories. Have a drink and think about it.

kunst nugget

gctest50 wrote: »

Any sources fot that or should we all go with you and yer "I'm sure"


There was maybe 150 - 200 pubs in Pompeii


The Romans were almost swimming in 94 million litres of wine, used to trade it for slaves

Big difference between the Mediterranean countries' ability to produce alcohol back in the days of Pompeii and countries like ourselves and the Scandinavian countries. Because of the climate, wine could be made all year round in the Mediterranean, which meant that basically it was always readily available. Alcohol could only produced up in the northern countries at specific times and would not last for long so feasts of celebration revolved around drinking alcohol while it was there.

Culturally, we would still have echoes of this in our countries to this day where binge drinking is a bigger issue in the north than it is on the continent and we would see alcohol as going hand in hand with celebrations.

Greyfox

Deleted User wrote: »

So, let's be clear here: if somebody drinks 3 pints or more in one session, it is not 'moderate' consumption - they are, in fact, binge drinking unless they want to abnegate the standard medical definition and invent their own in its stead.

If I told a friend 3 or 4 pints is binge drinking he would tell me to stop been a dry sh**e and have some fun and he would have every right to give this response. Having 2 junk food meals a week instead of healty ones is much worse then 3 or 4 pints. People have to be allowed have some unhealty stuff and if you exercise regularly having 3 or 4 pints at the weekend is not going to cause any serious long term harm.

branie2

fryup wrote: »

Drink!

Girls!

kunst nugget

Greyfox wrote: »

If I told a friend 3 or 4 pints is binge drinking he would tell me to stop been a dry sh**e and have some fun and he would have every right to give this response. Having 2 junk food meals a week instead of healty ones is much worse then 3 or 4 pints. People have to be allowed have some unhealty stuff and if you exercise regularly having 3 or 4 pints at the weekend is not going to cause any serious long term harm.

I have to say, since hitting my forties, my ability to get over a session has diminished considerably to the point where I'm really not bothered drinking that much anymore. I'm probably okay with three pints but four or more and I'm going to have a headache I'm not going to shake for the rest of the following day.
3-4 pints would feel like binge-drinking to me now in a way that it never would have in my twenties or early thirties. Old age has turned me into a dry shyte.

RobertKK

Everything in moderation, know when to stop, remember you need your liver in the future. Those of us who drink may go a little wild now and again but once it is not regular...I mean I took part in a drinking game for the world cup final last year, doing shots for every goal and yellow card, not expecting much...match ended 4-2 with 3 yellow cards, I didn't drink for a while after that :pac:
I usually don't drink much, and I know which drinks are best for me in terms of the next day, very very rare I now drink enough to get a hangover. It's not worth it.

ILoveYourVibes

branie2 wrote: »

Girls!

FECK!

Seanachai

KM792 wrote: »

I drink because I like how it slows you down,almost like a numbing effect.


I find my emotions are more intense without it,does anyone else feel like that?

I'm kind of the same, it's like a break from being too sensitive, not good to become dependent on it as an anti-anxiety medicine though. One of the reasons I don't drink that much these days is I'm kind of on edge making ends meet a lot of the time and I usually only feel like drinking when I'm in good form, which may sound strange to some people.

Strumms

kunst nugget wrote: »

I have to say, since hitting my forties, my ability to get over a session has diminished considerably to the point where I'm really not bothered drinking that much anymore. I'm probably okay with three pints but four or more and I'm going to have a headache I'm not going to shake for the rest of the following day.
3-4 pints would feel like binge-drinking to me now in a way that it never would have in my twenties or early thirties. Old age has turned me into a dry shyte.

Same, to a tee, up to my early 30’s six pints and work was manageable. Four...a walk in the park. Now, it wouldn’t be almost at all. Don’t drink anymore but hangovers were ****ty. Don’t miss the headaches and disappearing energy levels. Loving the general massive improvement in overall health, endurance and energy.

Arbitrary

Snotty wrote: »

Having worked in the industry for more years than I should have, it's a curse of a drug that ruins life's all over the country, if it was banned tomorrow, I would rejoice.

Drugs are not the problem, people's poor choices are the problem.

Neames

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

FECK!

Arse!

Seanachai

Arbitrary wrote: »

Drugs are not the problem, people's poor choices are the problem.

Do you think if all drugs were legalised and available from dispensaries that people who would normally be wary of them would indulge?

Arbitrary

Seanachai wrote: »

Do you think if all drugs were legalised and available from dispensaries that people who would normally be wary of them would indulge?

It's tough to give an accurate answer to this question with limited data to work from.

However, we do have information which allows us to draw some conclusions, at least relating to cannabis in the Netherlands.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL5730185

I've also read studies that showed a drop in usage rate among young age groups following decriminalisation.

Sorry for the late reply, I only saw your post now.

Seanachai

Arbitrary wrote: »

It's tough to give an accurate answer to this question with limited data to work from.

However, we do have information which allows us to draw some conclusions, at least relating to cannabis in the Netherlands.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL5730185

I've also read studies that showed a drop in usage rate among young age groups following decriminalisation.

Sorry for the late reply, I only saw your post now.

I know a few heads who would go to town on some drugs if they were made legal, at least for a while. The buzz and curiosity among younger people probably would fade though once it became open.