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How bad or good is alcohol for society

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    #32
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Nobelium wrote: »
    How do you propose to do that ?

    By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always. Many people can enjoy alcohol and cause no issues for anyone.

    Personal responsibility.


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    #33
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Alcohol excise contributes €1.2 billion to the exchequer.

    What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?


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    #34
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always.

    Again, back in reality, how do you propose to do that, examples etc.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always. Many people can enjoy alcohol and cause no issues for anyone.

    Personal responsibility.

    Missing the point it's an addictive drug

    I knew people who would take it or leave it with tablets and coke, does it make it ok when they take it.

    Or the people you see drinking 15 pints cos they are snorting lines in the Jack's and yes that quantity does happen. I've seen it


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    #36
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,928 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Alcohol excise contributes €1.2 billion to the exchequer.
    As you know the HSE/ALwhateverthef**k ate grossly ineffiexient and wasteful

    Plus... 92,000 jobs and €1 billion in exports.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #37
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,928 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    _blaaz wrote: »
    What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?

    Health care costs are net zero in the sense that it is impossible to know. If someone doesn't drink, they don't magically never enter a hospital or claim a pension. They just get dementia, alzheimers, different forms of cancer, heart attacks, strokes, arthritis, osteoparosis...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #38
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Missing the point it's an addictive drug

    I knew people who would take it or leave it with tablets and coke, does it make it ok when they take it.

    Or the people you see drinking 15 pints cos they are snorting lines in the Jack's and yes that quantity does happen. I've seen it

    Lots of people don't have any issue with it so that's absolute rubbish. Illegal substances have zero to do with this, they're illegal.


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Plus... 92,000 jobs and €1 billion in exports.

    Legalise other addictive drugs too, that would help the farmers and create employment. It's like the smoking adverts and pub ban, it was hysteria and this and that. Time has proven it was the right thing for society in general. People rightly look at smoking as the cancer odour disgusting habit it is


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    #40
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    _blaaz wrote: »
    What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?

    Depends -

    actual cost-to-healthcare

    vs

    what-it-costs-because-of-the-grossly-wasteful-healthcare-in-Ireland


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Lots of people don't have any issue with it so that's absolute rubbish. Illegal substances have zero to do with this, they're illegal.

    Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic


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    #42
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic

    Safe limits? They're legally binding?


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    #43
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    Alcohol is odd
    It's a
    Sedative
    Stimulant
    Psychoactive
    Depressant
    There really isn't any other drug that combines these normally opposing effects in a single substance
    It's like mixing mdma cannabis cocaine and valium in one


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    #44
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,928 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic

    To your first sentence no.
    To your second sentence no.
    To your third sentence no.

    ps the safe limits are nonsense or they wouldn't vary between country to country

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Safe limits? They're legally binding?

    I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

    I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

    If I can handle a joint better than a pint then is there an argument that I should be allowed have that drug cos i can handle it better.

    Alcohol is an age old problem and people are afraid of any alternative


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    #46
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

    I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

    If I can handle a joint better than a pint then is there an argument that I should be allowed have that drug cos i can handle it better.

    Alcohol is an age old problem and people are afraid of any alternative

    That still doesn't make these 'safe' limits legally binding. They're loose suggestions, so comparing it to your illegal drugs is clutching of the highest order.

    Alcohol, like everything else, is never the biggest problem in society. The biggest problem in any society are arseholes that cause trouble, for whatever reason.

    Personal Responsibility.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    To your first sentence no.
    To your second sentence no.
    To your third sentence no.

    ps the safe limits are nonsense or they wouldn't vary between country to country

    Alcohol attitude is changing, I think in our lifetime we are going to witness a major shift away from it


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    #48
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

    I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

    All drug users come out with the similar old excuses / defences.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobelium wrote: »
    All drug users come out with the similar old excuses / defences.

    Yep they do, it's funny when you dig deeper


    We craved to like it cos let's face it who likes beer at the start, it was horrible


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    That still doesn't make these 'safe' limits legally binding. They're loose suggestions, so comparing it to your illegal drugs is clutching of the highest order.

    Alcohol, like everything else, is never the biggest problem in society. The biggest problem in any society are arseholes that cause trouble, for whatever reason.

    Personal Responsibility.

    Nothing to do with brainwashing and social exclusion

    Why is it that working class areas suffer the most, not saying its exclusive to working class before you come back with that.


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    #51
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yep they do, it's funny when you dig deeper


    We craved to like it cos let's face it who likes beer at the start, it was horrible

    George Best always said he despised the taste of alcohol, right to the end.

    I always liked his honesty about that aspect of it.


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    #52
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Nothing to do with brainwashing and social exclusion

    Why is it that working class areas suffer the most, not saying its exclusive to working class before you come back with that.

    Working class areas may (if you say so) have the biggest amount of ***** but alcohol doesn't make them *****.


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    #53
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Working class areas may (if you say so) have the biggest amount of ***** but alcohol doesn't make them *****.

    Neither does being working class, but they do have occasion to turn to drugs more than others.


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    #54
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Neither does being working class, but they do have occasion to turn to drugs more than others.

    Anyone taking illegal drugs should be stopped taking them, no need to be pussyfooting around them because they've "issues".


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    #55
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Anyone taking illegal drugs should be stopped taking them, no need to be pussyfooting around them because they've "issues".

    I'm talking about all drugs, including alcohol.


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    #56
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Nobelium wrote: »
    I'm talking about all drugs, including alcohol.

    Alcohol is legal and the people who cause issues when drinking it are the problem, not the alcohol.

    People are always the issue.


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    #57
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,928 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nobelium wrote: »
    George Best always said he despised the taste of alcohol, right to the end.

    I always liked his honesty about that aspect of it.

    Not sure what the taste of alcohol is... what I do know is that a good bottle of wine with a meal is a civilised pleasure... the food tastes better with the right wine.

    And a quality whiskey or cognac over ice... I am not paying an extra 20 euros for sth whose taste I despise. I would just buy the cheapest strongest largest bottle instead.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Anyone taking illegal drugs should be stopped taking them, no need to be pussyfooting around them because they've "issues".

    It's a lot more than 'issues'. Its breaking the cycle, we all aspire and learn from our parents. Working class areas were deprived for a long time, it is changing but slowly

    I came from what was regarded as a rough area in cork and the amount of prejudice that time in the late 90s in secondary school was insane. It was also very evident the haves and have nots. All the teenagers I knew had part time jobs and handing up money at home, the kids from better areas didnt have jobs or didnt need them and probably didny work till after college


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    #59
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    the people who cause issues when drinking it are the problem, not the alcohol.

    People are always the issue.

    all drug users say that about their drug of choice


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Not sure what the taste of alcohol is... what I do know is that a good bottle of wine with a meal is a civilised pleasure... the food tastes better with the right wine.

    And a quality whiskey or cognac over ice... I am not paying an extra 20 euros for sth whose taste I despise. I would just buy the cheapest strongest largest bottle instead.

    And that there is the brain washing, you didnt need or want wine with the same meal when you were younger. I used drink whiskey, and the amount of nonsense people came out with, the only difference I saw was the expensive ones had a less harsh after taste and you didnt start drinking whisky, you forced yourself to acquire the taste

    I remember first drinking Guinness and i hated it, my brother told me to persevere and after a few nights I would like it better. He was right but it seems mad now to think I forced a drink I didnt like so after a while I would like it. Sounds like hard mentality


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    #61
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,186 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I'd say big pharma companies are as bad as alcohol companies, they tap up doctors getting them to over prescribe expensive drugs which are not needed.


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