Clare GAA Discussion part 2 , No Purple Jumpers Allowed !!

keeponhurling

It was poor to turn off for the Horgan free, similar to the Diarmuid Byrnes free last weekend. That was the poorest I can remember seeing this back line unit play. To concede 3-24 while your keeper makes some great saves….not ideal.

Our half backs are great under high ball but struggle when ran at, need more support from midfield.

The full back line was poor. Cleary and Hogan do tend to revert to fouling a lot, and their luck might run out. Often getting yellow cards in the first half.

Maybe we can change it up v Waterford, potentially give Conor Leen a 1st championship start.

Need to consider how the midfield and Conlon work together, Jamie Barron is an extremely dangerous player for Waterford. We need legs to track him. Barrett from Cork caused a lot of problems for us yesterday.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075631#Comment_122075631

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

caddy16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075945#Comment_122075945

I agree with you about our full backline but we do leave them very exposed. I was surprised Cork didn't target Cleary in the 2nd half and run at him but the game seemed to bypass him a bit. He's a warrior though and still the best option at fullback.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076050#Comment_122076050

I'll leave you at it, there's only one fella talking shite around here. When you've to resort to insulting lads like you're in the schoolyard there's no point in talking to you.

In all that you still can't put together a reasonable argument as to why Cleary is good enough. But I'll live in hope you can string a sentence together one day and explain the higher knowledge you seem to think you have. 👌

shocs07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076625#Comment_122076625

Ya Baby stuff alright

oppiuy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076625#Comment_122076625

Out of interest who do you think are the options to replace him, even if its mid game to change things up. I like Cleary but the refs are all him now and seems a marked man

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077173#Comment_122077173

Basically the options are to move one of the corner backs (Hayes, Flanagan or Hogan) there, but they'd struggle with a big full forward.

The other option being moving David McInerney back there. But you're robbing Peter to pay Paul a bit there.

windy shepard henderson

If you ask for trouble you will get it , thats how life works buddy, you came on here with all the initial wise cracks

I actually did , I pointed out that we struggled badly in the Munster final last year without him and nothing has been done since to replace him

Also what has been pointed out here last week and again this week the two lads beside him are more of a liability at the moment and not a word about it

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077287#Comment_122077287

OK buddy.. Point out what wise cracks I posted. You've taken awful offense to somebody not liking Cleary.

I merely commented on someone's elses comment about Cleary stated how I didn't like him and face reasons why.

All you had to do was say no, I disagree with you, I think Cleary is good at... A, b or c. Which is the way a mature adult would go about it. That's actually how life works…

But no, you decide to bring up where I'm from, what I do in my spare time, what other sports I watch and even weirder the inner workings of my toilet. Also calling me a retard and an idiot.

That's fine you think the other two are a liability, that's your opinion and I entitled to that. I'm not gonna attack you personally or insult you for having that opinion.

You obviously operate differently.

shocs07

Lads ....Cleary is an average full back who spends his time pulling and dragging out of the opposing full forward. Fact is he hasn't much hurling but I do admire the fact he tends to get away with it.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077173#Comment_122077173

McInerney is the obvious option to me. I don't think he'll be replaced to change things up though. He'll only be replaced if he's injured.

Unfortunately whoever would replace him if that happened would still leave us below bar in there. It's just a position we've struggled to find a top class player for.

I agree he is a marked man now with the refs.

keeponhurling

Maybe he's a genius.

I don't ever remember him getting sent off, although he gets booked in every single game. It's an art.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077591#Comment_122077591

Maybe he is. 🤔😂

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077531#Comment_122077531

That's exactly the reason he is there , no different from how Armagh used to deploy Francie bellew

Cathal Malone has **** all hurling in him also but he is one of our most important players for the role he holds

You need players like that, If you take him out of there the likes of gillane would run amok all over our defence, his role is simply take the oppositions best forward out of the game

And while people are whinging about him being a liability it's the two men beside him that are more vulnerable, Hogan dives too much and at some point it's going to cost us, while rory Hayes has a huge tendency to be headless in his tackling

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077493#Comment_122077493

This argument has been running for over a week and you decide to jump in yesterday

You put yourself into the middle of the argument, the infuriating thing is I have answered the questions multiple times over the course of the week, I assumed you had picked up on that part at least

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077851#Comment_122077851

I don't generally read every post on here, so I'm not up to date with all the arguments you have on here. I'll go to the latest posts after a game and see what people thought. I came across a post about Cleary and decided to reply to it. I didn't jump on any argument, the only jumping that was done was up and down by you when I dared question his abilities.

So i decided to go back and look at this argument, the first reference was by you calling some lad from sixmilebridge a muppet and an idiot. A couple of more pages back other lads having similar views as myself. And also you bringing up he's hard done by because he's from West Clare. You're the only one that has brought up where he's from from what i can see. I couldn't give 2 **** wheres he's from, you seem to have a bit of an inferiority complex about East v West Clare.

Hardly an "argument that has been running for over a week".

Then what I find hilarious is you actually love him for the same reasons I don't, and thats fine, you're allowed have your own preference to the way the game is played.

"That's exactly the reason he is there , no different from how Armagh used to deploy Francie bellew

Cathal Malone has **** all hurling in him also but he is one of our most important players for the role he holds"

I hate all the holding and wrestling he does and the fact he has no hurling. Maybe he does as was pointed out by another poster, but hes not allowed to show it or doesn't want to play that way in his position.

You obviously know him personally, related to him or are from the same club that you feel the need to get abusive when someone has a differing view about him.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

shocs07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077773#Comment_122077773

Fair comparison but neither Francie or Armagh won too many All Ireland's

brady12

Davy Mc doesn't want to play full back .

Figerty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075631#Comment_122075631

Cleary is picked at full-back to shut down the route to goal. Conlon as sweeper is to cover out in front. If he doesn't get to the ball Cleary is to prevent a clean run through on goal. He has to curtail his instincts to attack the ball. The two corner backs now play more like wingbacks. Defend but also attack

If he starts playing out in front and misses (think of Brian Lohan) then it's game over. So, to curtail Horgan, Gillane, TJ or any full forward, Cleary or any fullbacks game is to deny the route to goal. Gillane in particular moves to space to get that ball into space. Tipp got roasted because they didn't have a Cleary.

Lohan has set this up to prevent leaking. Is it perfect? no. Limerick exploited this in the last 15 minutes by bypassing the sweeper, and they also went long to the square to isolate the full-back line. So, if Cleary plays loose, then he and the full forward line get exposed. Cleary, or any full back has to adjust their skills to meet the needs of the Team.

We are still leaking goals at crucial times, that's what Lohan has to address.

If Clare go 15 on 15, then as a fullback, he has to go to the front for low balls, stay back for high balls, and intercept cross-field ball. Put Cleary at midfield and you have a different hurler. David Mc went out from Full back because he was too loose.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079504#Comment_122079504

Yeah I get that, deny route to goal. Fullback has always been last line of defence.

The problem I have with him is his first and only decision he makes is grab his man and hold onto him. As I said in an earlier post, you rarely see him claim a ball in the air even though he's far taller and stronger than most forwards if not all that he'll face. The goal against limerick last week for example. Some would blame quilligan, but I'd put the initial mistake on Cleary. He's big and strong enough to stop that making it through. Is that not bread and butter stuff for a fullback, but instead he was concentrating on just wrapping up Gillane. Quilligan should obviously do better aswell

Ideally you want a mixture of both. Lohan was that, and fair enough frank saved he's arse once or twice in behind.

We'll get away with it playing most teams full forwards. But it's against kilkenny and limerick where a position like that will win you or lose you the game, and they're the 2 teams at the moment that will deny us the chance of winning an all Ireland. Your effectively starting at a disadvantage if you and your opposition knows that your full back will wait for his man to get the ball and won't attack it. And we also have the scenario of the refs clamping down on him more this year I think. No other top team plays that way. He's a makeshift fullback. So yeah Lohan would have to change his preferred style of play to accommodate a different style of fullback. Neither will happen at the stage.

There was one game last year, apologies I can't remember which one, and he was getting in blocks, hooks and actually defending. So as you say, he does seem to have the ability but just doesn't do it consistently. Whether that's by choice or instruction I dunno.

Do we have a potentially top fullback in the county? I'm living away from Clare for 20 odd years now so I don't know the club scene anymore. Ye lads should know.

Figerty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080044#Comment_122080044

You are still missing the point. The game has changed. A catch ball between the back and the forward is the forward's advantage. Cleary does not need to catch contested balls, if the sweeper is doing his job and getting to the break. Not letting the full forward get possession. The game has changed. He catches plenty ball when in space, he distributes to the left or right or sweeper. He is not to go all hero and belt the ball up the field ala Tipp last week. Limerick do the same. Mark Foley for Limerick used to blow ball up the field and then have to collect the clearance coming back down again…great hurler, a different era, and a different percentage game.

Last Sunday Cork kept Horgan away from Cleary.. you know why? Because he won't win that battle. He did win on a loose hurler.

Go to club matches and you will see Cleary catch more ball than Duggan. The point is that he's doing the job he's asked to do.

Compare Lohan to Cleary. Lohan was terrible on the ground and couldn't pull on a ball to save himself. He was also not great at catching a ball. What Lohan was good at was getting out to the low ball and driving forward, his real talent was that he was a better defender when he didn't have the ball than when he did have it.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080100#Comment_122080100

No im not missing the point, I get what you're saying.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

Cleary isn't winning any contested ball, which is then either relinquishing possession to the opposition forward, who he then fouls or that forward can pass it off. You can't tell me that opposition managers aren't in some way targeting Cleary for winning frees. I'd love to see the stats of frees conceded in those positions by Cleary.

I know the game has moved on, you brought up Lohan to be fair, and mark foley not me. I was comparing the way Cleary plays earlier to the way hue lawlor or Dan morrissey plays. The 2 top fullbacks of this era.

If you're relying on your sweeper to be there an do the job Cleary could've done initially you're playing at a disadvantage. Of course there's going to be contested balls that will bounce back out, go over heads etc. That's essentially the sweepers job, to protect. I'd like to have confidence in my fullback to win contested balls. And then lay it off to conlon in space. But his one and only option seems to be grab his man and not try win any ball. So you've got conlon trying to recover possession, while being hounded by his man who knows beforehand either my forward is winning this ball or the man I'm marking, conlon, will have to try recover possession. Would it not be good to have a 3rd option, maybe the opposition have to think about Cleary winning the ball?

I should hope he can catch plenty of ball when in space, he's and intercounty hurler.

Of course horgan is gonna be brought out into space, hasn't he always? Don't ever remember him sitting on the edge of the square for a whole game. So that's not because we have Cleary at full back. All teams try move there best forwards into space. Limerick can leave Gillane in there cos that's what he loves and lives off. And both of them were close to being shown a second yellow for wrestling each other.

I get that you're saying he's a brilliant hurler out the field but my point is he's not good enough to be full back in a team that wants to win the all Ireland. And he's maybe being done a disservice in being asked to play that way by Lohan.?!

I don't think we'll change eachothers minds, you can see a route to success with him, I struggle to. But would love to be proven wrong.

Cheers for the grown up debate though. 👍

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078875#Comment_122078875

There has been plenty of Francies since , he is the best example as would be the most noted defender in the game for it

Limerick have there own version of dark arts cleary is perfect at counteracting gillane

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080343#Comment_122080343

Grown up conversation, makes a big change from the drivel you had up Sunday night,🙄🤣

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079504#Comment_122079504

There should never have been any need for the big theis, it has been well spoken about and what impact he brings to our defence

Cian Nolan is the best example last year in the Munster final, a fantastic defender in his own right, and probably a better all round hurler but badly struggled against gillane in clearys absence

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081299#Comment_122081299

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081382#Comment_122081382

Jesus man you to look in the mirror a bit. Drivel? Everything i said in my original posts have remained the same, where you went down a strange rabbit hole of nonsense. All you've done is abuse lads that have a different opinion than you on something. Have you been issued with a warning and have posts edited for your Drivel? Do you think because you created to the page everyone must conform to your way of thinking. I still have not read anything from you that would explain anything in any detail. The closest you've come is to compare Conor Cleary to an Armagh Footballer from 20 years ago. 🙄 Not bad from a fella with this higher knowledge of hurling you profess to have, I'm sure The Sunday Game will be calling you any day now.

There was a need for a 'thesis' because i asked him to explain it to me so i could see why he believes Cleary deserves to be there. So like a grown up, he did. And i replied explaining my thinking. Its how grown ups operate. I don't agree with him and he doesn't agree with me. End of.

And the scary thing for you is, I'm not unique in my opinion, imagine that. I'd be surprised if you haven't heard someone in the real world either saying similar. But basing on what I've seen from you in here you'll probably just start jumping up and down and calling them names.

I'll leave you to it now Lord Windy and you bashing of random keyboard keys, I've wasted enough time responding to you. 👍️

BnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077773#Comment_122077773

I know you're not meaning to have a go at him and you're recognising what he brings to the team, but you can't say that Malone has no hurling in him after seeing the beautiful ball he floated into Rodgers for the chance that eventually lead to the Cork sending off. Beautifully weighted pass.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081978#Comment_122081978

No but its the general consensus around the country , he gets a woefully hard time of it at times too

windy shepard henderson

I was on about your 2am post Sunday night

Good that's a relief, we won't need for to type up 4 page thesis when a quick post would normally be enough ......

Treble double

Munster football final losers go into a qualifier group with Cork, Tyrone and the Ulster champions, I fear for Clare in this company and don't think it will aid their development. Down who gave us a bit of a trimming in the leauge are in the Tailteann Cup. The provincials need to be made a stand alone competition and Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup placings should be based on leauge position.