Deathloop

The Phantom Pain

I'd be very interested to see a speedrun because it's going to be very difficult, if not, impossible.

btw Bethesda made this cool little Fallout 76 perk card to celebrate the release of Deathloop:

https://twitter.com/BethesdaStudios/status/1437789483236134912

johnny_ultimate

Digital Foundry early analysis here, and they highly recommend Performance mode over the two others on PS5: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-deathloop-ps5-graphics-modes-compared-which-is-the-best-way-to-play

Apparently quite a heavy game so some reports of performance struggles on PC. But would it truly be an Arkane game without performance struggles? :)

Mr Crispy

I'm sure the presence of Denuvo isn't helping.

Cordell

I really don't get why the industry is still using this kind of invasive DRM when it was proven times and times again (and a few times embarrassingly so) that it doesn't stop piracy and it only makes things worse for the honest gamer.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890908#Comment_117890908

I played about an hour so far on PS5, and in a menu to add trinkets to my gun, the menu overlay wouldn't go away when I exited out of it, even back to the main menu. Had to close the game (luckily was finishing up anyway). So not the best of starts in that sense.

Enjoyed the gameplay so far though. Simplistic so far, but obviously no real abilities or anything yet. Story and world seems interesting.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890877#Comment_117890877

You never say something is impossible to a speedrunner.

johnny_ultimate

Enjoying it so far, but too early to have much more of an opinion than ‘a more action-orientated Dishonoured’.

The turrets seem delightfully overpowered? Just pop one up quietly behind a group of enemies and let the machine do the hard work for you.

Runs well on PS5 but had one nasty temporary lock up after leaving the apartment for the first time. Thought it was going to crash but it didn’t in the end. Thankfully survived the firefight it happened in the middle of!

The Phantom Pain

Tip: If you don't want to end a loop but feel like you're about to die you can cheese it by quitting to the main menu and it will restart you from the district. Also, if you do die on your final life don't go into the menu. Just close the app and boot into the game again and it will restart you from that district. 👀

The way Arkane has handled saving in this is really well done. I only ever crashed once in a run but because most areas now take about 2 minutes for me to clear that was nothing. Housemarque could learn a thing or two. Not allowing regular saves isn't worth it if your game is so poorly optimised that it crashes causing the player to lose hours of progress.

Where's the cheapest place to get this on Ps5?

nullObjects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891111#Comment_117891111

Same I've seen a few small glitches and things. I'd say they'll have them patched quick enough.

I had one where I couldn't move, could just rotate on the spot, was a bit weird.

Enjoying it so far too but haven't really uncovered much of the plot, have just been messing around and exploring

Soby

Enjoying it so far , tried to play as Julianna but couldn't get into a game

Retr0gamer

Looking like this game is a total mess on PC. Wondering if it's denuvo or the actual engine. I remember having severe issues with Dishonored 2 on launch. Had a new top end pc and was getting less than 10 frames per second. Could be the void engine.

The Phantom Pain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVtjRjpTYWo

Someone uploaded the full soundtrack including the Julianna invasion music in the Complex @ 4:15 of this video. Man, when that uptempo version comes on and she alerts everyone to your presence over the speakers and the entire place goes full chaos it's such a rush. All the carefully planned stealth goes out the window and it's just pure survival and instinct.  This soundtrack is up there for me with Nier Automata.

iamtony

Had very little interest in this game but the reviews and Smyth's vouchers I have, have persuadede. On my way to drop kids to the pavillion and I'll hit Smyths on my way back.

Penn

Threw a few hours into it last night. Have progressed to where I can infuse and start following proper leads etc.

The game is fantastic so far. Only issue is it can be very difficult to track enemies, and maps of the areas are near pointless. The nail gun is ridiculously OP though, which I'm really thankful for.

Really wish the game was third-person though. I generally dislike first-person games which involve platforming, climbing and shooting. Most of my deaths so far have been from falling into water due to mis-judging a jump.

Zero-Cool

Okay, with all the kerfuffle with this recently, I decided to check it out and it actually sounds class. But then, so did Dishonored and I couldn't get into either of those games (didn't give them a good enough go probably but they didn't grab me). I don't know what it is about Arkane games and me but really really want to try this.

The Phantom Pain

Got the platinum last night but will be hopping in later as Julianna to go and ruin more people's run. 😆 Not sure how saving works online or whether the aforementioned cheeses apply.  

Spoiler Warning

Would just like to flex that I also totally called that Julianna was Colt's father earlier in the thread. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898765#Comment_117898765

I think the biggest disservice that can be done to Deathloop is comparing it to Dishonoured - which is a great franchise but feels very different. The only thing it borrows from Dishonoured are some of the powers and the play-your-way aspect at its most basic layer. Otherwise the concept is entirely different.

In some ways it's like a looter shooter RPG. A lot of the deluxe pre-order content like the silenced tribunal can actually be dropped by an enemy and it's one of the best weapons. All the weapons have different fixed perks and you can do entire runs where you're just farming for powers.  There are the sometimes untracked little discoveries like Charlie's games that are reminiscent of the riddler challenges in the Batman Arkham series, except the reward is often a weapon or a trinket. There's the invasion multiplayer in which  you can go into other people's games and ruin their day and you get more weapons and cosmetics the better you do. The whole 60s tone and vibe of it is completely different too. The tutorial opening might put you off (like I said in my first impressions it won't be for everyone) but once the game opens up and you're free to chase whatever lead you want it's an absolute banger.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898703#Comment_117898703

Just wait until you get the silenced version of it. 😉

johnny_ultimate

To be honest, I've been struck by how similar to Dishonoured it is. There's a lot of the fundamental gameplay mechanics that are identical, and the basic sneaking/planning is very similar moment to moment (although that's true of many immersive sims). Even visually it's quite similar - things like the shutters used to show which doors you can't go through immediately reminded me of Dishonoured.

What's interesting is how they've changed the formula. Bodies disappearing instantly adds a major point of difference, and shows the focus on more action. The structure also suggests to me designers working out a reason to have players try different approaches to the same content. With Dishonoured many (myself included) will have played through the campaign one way and been done with it. This game's repetition pretty much demands you explore more to keep things interesting.

I am enjoying it plenty so far, now that it's settled into its groove. The tutorial is clunky as hell at times and way too long, and the menus / UI needed another few passes as they're an absolute mess at the moment (cursor navigation on console 👎🏻). It's also far more linear / hand-holdy in its objectives than I expected. Not entirely sold on whether the locations are interesting enough to keep revisiting over and over. But it certainly has plenty going for it, and it's certainly fun figuring out some of the secrets the games hold. It is very Dishonoured IMO, but it's always interesting to see a familiar style from a fresh design perspective.

Deathloop is to Dishonoured as Bloodborne is to Dark Souls - an action-focused take on a very familiar formula.

The Phantom Pain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117899206#Comment_117899206

Yeah, no. Don't agree. You would have to be going out of your way to ignore a lot of the other features and how they fundamentally changes how you play to conclude it's just "action-focused Dishonoured".

The menus/UI are easy to navigate imo. I always knew what to look for when I remembered something specific I wanted to track. I don't know how they could have streamlined that any more - do you have any suggestions?

Don't agree that it's handholdy either. It gives you something to work with but the way I played it I discovered there are plenty of hidden stuff that completely change how you approach each run (without giving away spoilers).

Zero-Cool

Well I'm intrigued about, have it reserved for collection tomorrow, looking forward to giving it a lash at the weekend.

The Phantom Pain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895808#Comment_117895808

Yeah, bit of a shame that because when you can get into a match it's really entertaining. Julianna has no visual HUD of where the exit tunnels are or certain objectives. For instance, if Colt manages to hack the antenna you have to remember what tunnels are open, where  and at that particular time of day. You also really do need to know the map inside out or listen out for certain audio cues from your ally NPCs. For instance, I know that when a certain visionary starts a speech that Colt must be in that specific area because that convo only triggers when Colt can witness it. Or suddenly seeing a bunch of hacked cameras and open doors in the area is also a dead giveaway. It encourages you to play clever and really get into the mind of your prey. Colt is at an advantage gear wise and he has more lives  but the moment he interacts with anything he gives away his position. The most entertaining part is watching the Colt player panic and get themselves killed doing something stupid without you even having to try lol.

It does have a flaw whereby it's almost always better just to camp the antenna because you don't know what the player's goals are that day but you know they have to at least hack the antenna to escape.  

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117899540#Comment_117899540

I never said it was just an action-focused Dishonoured, but I do think it feels remarkably like a faster version of that game in much of the minute to minute gameplay :) I mean, all the powers - pivotal to how we play the game - are borrowed directly from that D1+2 with a few tweaks here and there. But certainly all the structural things, the tone and lots of small details ensure this has significant points of difference to Arkane’s most famous series. It’s a mix of the new and familiar - again, similar to Bloodborne / Sekiro.

UI wise I just think a lot of info is buried under layers of menus and submenus. There’s lots of poorly explained icons scattered throughout the menus - for example, the way some objectives have an extra triangular emphasis or the separate icons for non-infused and equipped items. I’m not a UI designer so can only say it feels a bit confusing to use - albeit one Ive adjusted to as I progress. I’d certainly make navigating menus non-cursor based or at the very least have the cursor snap to different boxes as appropriate. I think there’s also some unnecessary ‘hold button for a second too long to do this prompt’ bits - not always instinctively clear you need to hold down a particular button rather than just press it. Also think the way some of the tutorial text pops up in little white text in the middle of the screen was awkward. It just feels somewhat unpolished and messy in some UI details - partially a result of lots of interlocking systems to illustrate, but I definitely don’t think it’s particularly controller friendly with its free-moving cursor (ironically, I’ve heard some PC users complain the interface seems too console focused 🤷🏻‍♂️).

The ‘detective’ angle has certainly come more to the forefront as I dig deeper, and I’m really enjoying it. I do think the game fills in a lot of the blanks for you before you even have a chance to do it yourself, and ultimately by default the game gives you lots of overt objectives about what you can do next - ‘handholdy’ in that sense. BUT there’s still plenty of satisfaction to be found in putting the many pieces in the right place, figuring out little puzzles, and digging up secrets. If it’s a little bit less satisfying than say Outer Wilds or Obra Dinn in that sense, it’s still fantastic to see bigger games embrace some of the design lessons and choices from those games.

Zero-Cool

Had a quick go, just got to the start of the complex, man I love Colt already, what a great character. Really liking the premise and looking forward to it opening up like ye say. Had some bad freezing issues in the first section but i read that stop happening and my ps5 makes a weird noise during loading screens.

I usually turn off haptics and vibration in games but loving it in this, great use of it for the weapons.

The Phantom Pain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902934#Comment_117902934

I think you might be mulling over the wrong details. The discovery element lies not in the what; it’s the how. Kindafunny explains it way better than I ever could (no spoilers from). From 51:50 to 59:51:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugy3YWEO-CI

It also is somewhat amusing that you claim the game is handholdy but struggled to navigate the impressively simplistic menus (seriously, how Arkane managed to organise all the leads and discoveries in a way that could be so easily tracked is unthinkable). Now, of course menus and UI are QOL issues and so should be handholdy in the sense that it should be easy to use. No one should have to suffer through convoluted menu systems but even I personally had no issues – and I am admittedly not the quickest minded person when it comes to that sort of thing at all.  I also don't understand what you're referring to by "extra triangular emphasis". Again, could you elaborate? Do you mean the objectives that have the white diamond shapes next to them? Also, what do you mean when you say "separate icons" for non-infused and equipped icons? Equipped items have a hand icon on them. Non-infused items have the hourglass on them. You'll know this because the 'infuse gear' tab has an hourglass on it and the 'sort' button below enables you to see only non-infused gear which all have an hourglass on them. If you attempt to infuse gear that has already been infused you won't get the option to do so.  If you equip a non-infused item it will have both the hour glass and the hand icon on them... Or are you talking about the separate menus for the equipped and non-infused items? Because the obvious reason for that is so that you don't accidentally sacrifice items you want to equip.. It was also obvious to me what needed to be held down and what required just a tap. Again, I genuinely don't know how they could have made it any easier to navigate.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907796#Comment_117907796

Just to stress, it's not the menu / UI I find handholdy (although obviously it influences the UI prompts) - it's the way information and objectives are handled in gameplay. I think the game often puts 2 + 2 together for the player before they even have a chance to really have that 'aha!' moment for themselves :) A lot of the investigation work is automated, with the game always highlighting the right critical path for the player. I understand why they settled on that as a design choice, of course, just means the 'aha' moments aren't quite the thrill of an Obra Dinn revelation or similar game. Still think it's a lot of fun sneaking around and often seeing what Cole's seeing for the first time too, especially when you're a step ahead of what the game's going to add to your list of intel, leads and objectives.

And yes I still believe the menus are messy and confusing at first - I have absolutely adjusted to them, albeit simply because it's what's in front of me. I do think it's counter-intuitive to have an icon for an item that's equipped and an item that's not infused right beside each other, for example - I understand it now that I've played the game, just think it's a clunky design choice. With triangular emphasis, I mean this little icon beneath the second objective. Looks visually messy to me on top of the diamond icon:

None of these are anywhere near gamebreakers, and if it seems like I'm nitpicking it's simply to explain my issues - I've adjusted to them, and certainly don't underestimate the task the designers had in pulling everything together. But I also can't deny the first hour or two and first real dig around in the menus felt a tad unpolished and clunky to me - you're more than free to disagree. Thankfully, it's a damn good game overall and I'm thoroughly enjoying my time with it - although the cursor-based navigation is still shite ;)

Cordell

So far the best game I've played this year bar Ancient Gods part 2 which I don't consider a full game.

Penn

Think I'm close to zeroing in on the main plan of attack. Only thing I'm having trouble with is trying to remember which codes etc I might need and whether or not they change every loop.

I've only been playing single player, but man even when the AI Julianna invades, the tenseness goes through the roof.

johnny_ultimate

I do really like that Juliana and the other visionaries only take a few hits to go down (or indeed can be stealth killed if you play your cards right). They obviously have their skills to give them an edge over the randoms, but feels very satisfying that they’re not overpowered bullet sponges.

The Phantom Pain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907894#Comment_117907894

I understood exactly what you meant with regards to the hand holding pertaining to the detective gameplay. That's why I said the reason you're calling it handholdy in that regard is because you're expecting the eureka moments in the wrong places. Like I said, the discovery is in the how, not the what. The kindafunny clip explains my point beautifully.

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw the picture with the right angled triangle. I mean really, JU, was it really that jarring initially? Come on. 😂  Also, it's super useful for those who have accessibility barriers, particularly those with poor eye sight in a game that, admittedly, is really lacking in accessibility options. Sure, it's not the most elegant way of emphasising a tracked quest but it gets the job done.

I'm just going to assume that when you say the equipped/non infused right "next to each other" you mean the hand icon and the hourglass icon appearing on an equipped item that's also not infused, but you still haven't explained why it's counter-intuitive.

I get that it's your opinion but to call the menus an "absolute mess"? I dunno. I reserve descriptions for that for menus like Cyberpunk or Anthem. I was surprised at how quickly I clicked with the menus tbh.

Penn

To be honest, I wouldn't be a huge fan of some of the menu and UI design either. The menu when it comes to sorting out trinkets can be a pain, especially later in the game when you can collect so many in one map (Including multiples of same). Plus not being able to check what the weapon trait is on your weapon while in the game (other than dropping your weapon by picking up another one). That one annoyed me a few times.

It's all manageable, but just feels clunky at times.