Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Capt'n Midnight

Enzokk wrote: »

What is the Unite position on Brexit?

Cherrypicking.

Both the Tories and Labour want full access to EU markets while blocking free movement.

Like Labour the unions would like to keep EU workers rights and be able to protecting job by subsidising or nationalising certain industries.
The Tories would like to ditch the workers rights, remove subsidies and privatise everything.


For example three shipyards

'Ready' to Nationalise Says Scottish Government on Clyde Shipyard Ferguson Marine

UK Councillor Calls to Renationalise Appledore Shipyard

Harland and Wolff gets extra week to find a buyer But it's only the workers calling for nationalisation.

Seth Brundle

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I foresee a massive constitutional crisis in the UK - far too many fundamentals of how their political system works are being ignored or pushed to their limits.

Can you have a constitutional crisis when you dont have a clearly written constitution?

reslfj

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

...
Perhaps it could be sold as coming out of the £39bn that the UK will eventually pay one way or another. Hopefully, £39bn will still have some value in a few years' time

The "£39bn" is not an/the amount to be paid, but the net sum of the estimated line items the UK has to pay to the UK and subtracted the line items the EU have to pay to the UK.

It is money already allocated e.g. to pensions, research projects not yet completed or the UK's EU contributions until Brexit day.
I am not sure if the UK's contributions during transition periods is included in the estimate, but I think the first transition period until ultimo 2020 is included. Do anyone know?

This money is allocated already and cannot be used for anything else.

Everything EU is in Euros and paid in Euros. The £ is nothing but a figure being calculated using the (now historic) £->€ exchange rate.

Lars

Imreoir2

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Aside: I was browsing thru new CSO brexit stats, some very juicy stuff there, we import more than we export to UK
https://www.cso.ie/en/interactivezone/visualisationtools/brexitindicators/#
Our exports also have fallen (brexit preparations?) to only 9-10% of total
Also the number of trips in both directions have fallen, it seem we already have decoupled from UK and are "brexit ready"

So... you are saying that they need us more then we need them?

For the most part, Ireland was just the far end of the Europe to UK supply chain. Brexit has forced our economey to strenghten its own supply chains independant of the UK.

lawred2

reslfj wrote: »

The "£39bn" is not an/the amount to be paid, but the net sum of the estimated line items the UK has to pay to the UK and subtracted the line items the EU have to pay to the UK.

It is money already allocated e.g. to pensions, research projects not yet completed or the UK's EU contributions until Brexit day.
I am not sure if the UK's contributions during transition periods is included in the estimate, but I think the first transition period until ultimo 2020 is included. Do anyone know?

This money is allocated already and cannot be used for anything else.

Everything EU is in Euros and paid in Euros. The £ is nothing but a figure being calculated using the (now historic) £->€ exchange rate.

Lars

So it's likely more than £39Bn then at this stage

Imreoir2

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Can you have a constitutional crisis when you dont have a clearly written constitution?

If anything its probably more likely. With a written constitution, when a leader tries to do something that it unconstitutional it is fairly obvious to everyone and the courts can easily step in a strike them down. In a semi-chaotic system like the UKs that rests largely on precedent and respect for process, when a leader pushes the boundaries everyone is left wondering what if anything can be done about it.

Strazdas

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Can you have a constitutional crisis when you dont have a clearly written constitution?

Yes, you can. Matters that are outside day to day politics and which relate to the actual way the country is legally set up and how Parliament operates would be considered 'constitutional' ones, therefore if things start falling apart, you would have a constitutional crisis,

Tikki Wang Wang

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Senator Neil Richmond handing Ian Dale and the delusional brexit position a severe can of kick ass just there on LBC. Well worth listening back to.

What did he say ?

Lackadaisical

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Can you have a constitutional crisis when you dont have a clearly written constitution?

Absolutely, and it would probably be quite a long drawn out process involving lots of court cases as people try to define where the limits are.

The UK's constitution isn't as chaotic as some make out either, while some of it is vague, a lot of it is written. It's mostly just a collection of other legislation that's considered to be constitutionally relevant.

kowloon

bilston wrote: »

So now MPs who are opposed to Brexit are "collaborating" with the EU.

I suggest Johnson learns to become more careful with his language

If we're talking the language of nationalism it's well chosen. Collaborators are the enemy, the traitors. We'll see if the term gets used repeatedly like undemocratic backstop and taking back control.

Beechwoodspark

lawred2 wrote: »

So it's likely more than £39Bn then at this stage

Yep it’s up around 43 Bn now. And rising.

As the pound dives the figure will increase

Mr.Nice Guy

I see Mike Pence is coming to Ireland next month.

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1161711169004085249

I wonder will he wade into the debate about Brexit and a US/UK trade deal or will he keep schtum. An intervention by him along the lines of Pelosi's comments could be a game changer. Then again, I'm not sure he has it in him to take a moral stand like that, even with his own Irish connection.

Beechwoodspark

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I see Mike Pence is coming to Ireland next month.

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1161711169004085249

I wonder will he wade into the debate about Brexit and a US/UK trade deal or will he keep schtum. An intervention by him along the lines of Pelosi's comments could be a game changer. Then again, I'm not sure he has it in him to take a moral stand like that, even with his own Irish connection.

He has been nothing but a trump parrot so far so i expect nothing new. He seems to be the stalking horse in case trump has to resign suddenly.

ThePanjandrum

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I see Mike Pence is coming to Ireland next month.

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1161711169004085249

I wonder will he wade into the debate about Brexit and a US/UK trade deal or will he keep schtum. An intervention by him along the lines of Pelosi's comments could be a game changer. Then again, I'm not sure he has it in him to take a moral stand like that, even with his own Irish connection.

He's visiting Iceland, then a couple of days in the UK to discuss Brexit (which he supports) and then over to Ireland for a day

Imreoir2

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

He's visiting Iceland, then a couple of days in the UK to discuss Brexit (which he supports) and then over to Ireland for a day

Why on earth would he not support Brexit? It damages a rival (the EU) and gives the US the opportunity to asset mine the UK.

Stop moaning ffs

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

What did he say ?

Reminded them very forcefully the WA is closed and wtf is Ireland and the Eu supposed to do when Britain has already agreed to it now because it has a new pm who voted for these measures earlier, now wants to renege on it. He’s wasting his time. Parliament is chasing its tail doesn’t even know what it wants. That’s not Ireland’s or Europe’s problem to solve.

I’ve rarely heard Dale be stumped but he was. He just retreated to ‘well no deal it is then.’


It was a lot more than that but that’s the gist. And he wasn’t losing his cool but he was forceful and deadly serious.

Kermit.de.frog

Pence will tell each audience what they want to hear.

Then he'll go home.

reslfj

lawred2 wrote: »

So it's likely more than £39Bn then at this stage

Assuming the running UK contribution has been paid, It will be lowered amount that's yet to be paid.

Whatever the amount is - it is a tiny amount compared to the huge cost of even a WA type Brexit.

A 'No Deal' Brexit will be even more expensive and catastrophically costly in the UK.

Lars

reslfj

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yep it’s up around 43 Bn now. And rising.

As the pound dives the figure will increase

The amount doesn't rise in real terms, just because the UK can't manage its economy in a way that keeps the value of the £.

The UK has always had to pay for the agreed line items and in Euro.

Lars

Enzokk

I haven't listened to the interview yet but for those that are looking for it, it can be find at the link below.

https://www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/london

Just pick the Ian Dale show and forward to the interview. Seems to be 12 minutes in, just use the 30 second fast forward button to get there.

marno21

Renewed evidence that the Labour Party leader is taking a view on the nation's most important issue that's not reflected by the party at large

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1161654112309714944

I would like to see the Mensa members who support the Brexit Party yet would vote remain in a referendum.

Shelga

Just listened to Iain Dale and Neale Richmond interview there. Senator Richmond's frustration was very clear. We are all completely fed up with the arrogance and irresponsibility of the UK government, stamping its feet like a child because it can't get exactly what it wants, even though it doesn't even know what that is.

Iain Dale came across very poorly, I thought. Trying to pin the blame on Ireland and the EU for this absolute shambles is pathetic. I don't have much respect for people who cannot take responsibility for their own messes, and every hardcore Brexiter fits that description perfectly.

Does Iain Dale not acknowledge the sheer hypocrisy of his precious Prime Minister, who voted both against and for the Withdrawal Agreement, yet we are to believe the complete drivel that every single one of the 17.4 million Leave voters wants a no deal exit that will destroy the economy, and not a single one of them has changed their minds :rolleyes:

Not a single one of the prominent Brexiters, that I have heard, has said "We weren't prepared for this, we've made a mess of it, for that we are sorry." Pathetic, dangerous liars, all of them.

Lackadaisical

I’d love to know who the 2% of the Brexit party supporters who are in favour of remain are! Clearly they’re very confused as it has absolutely no other policies.

Lackadaisical

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I’d love to know who the 2% of the Brexit party supporters who are in favour of remain are! Clearly they’re very confused as it has absolutely no other policies.

Probably the same as the 2% of sinn fein voters who said no to a UI at the exit polls of the EU elections recently.

woohoo!!!

Whilst the narrative of undemocratic backstop and collaborators is the latest clever wheeze from Cummings front man Johnson, a combination of the sheer stupidity of no deal Brexit and it's negative economic impacts and the possibility of a global recession looming, events are looking like they're going to outpace the clever wheezes. The tories are looking at a FF type collapse in short order at this rate. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

J Mysterio

Arron Banks, ladies and gentlemen.

https://twitter.com/arron_banks/status/1161747086616010752

Tell me how

J Mysterio wrote: »

Arron Banks, ladies and gentlemen.

Response from JHB.

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1161749293792989185

He's a nasty piece of work.

J Mysterio

Tell me how wrote: »

Response from JHB.

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1161749293792989185

He's a nasty piece of work.

She's a nasty piece of work too.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Emma Barnett once again getting key politicans to admit the BS they are a part of.

..........

As always, comments are interesting as Brexiteers immediately go to suggesting that Emma has an agenda and so they ignore the floundering from the ministers.

Brother actually sent me this clip just now. I listened to it again, once thing I think is very interesting is that when Emma asked IDS what the government is doing now which it said it was doing previously but not doing, he responded that (paraphrasing here) "they are doing all sorts of things and that the Prime Minister, Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings are all focused on...."

One of the key people he mentioned, along with the PM and someone with responsibility for No Deal preparations was an unelected special adviser... And they go on and on about unelected bureaucrats in the EU.

Tell me how

J Mysterio wrote: »

She's a nasty piece of work too.

Yeah, that's what made it interesting, if JHB is remonstrating with you, you're wayyyy out of line.