N25 - Midleton to Youghal [planning and design to commence 2023]

Chris_5339762

Everyones going to jump into this thread thinking there is some magical update but there isn't. In the 2040 documents released by the government, this route is said to have adequate capacity and won't be touched, but since the rejigging of lights at the bridge in Castlemartyr it is jammed all day, and at 630pm on a Friday the jamups are back to the lake, 2.5km away from the lights.


I'm tempted to say Castlemartyr is now Irelands worst village bottleneck, in my mind it has now jumped above Claregalway and Adare as the most awful.


Its still baffling to me though how this section of the N25 feels overcapacity, has those two bottlenecks and yet isn't even on the cards to be touched before 2040. Bizarre?


Hopefully if a road opens I can look back on this post and say "It only took 20 years" or something like that.

Chris_5339762

For what its worth, the old document on the old NRA website said that this route would be from Midleton to the Waterford side of the Youghal bypass before it was all cancelled back in 2010.

From what I know, a decision on the Lake View roundabout in Midleton had not been taken, there was no information on whether the Midleton bypass itself would be upgrade (Carrigtwohill - Midleton scheme ended at Midleton West) and nor was there a decision on what to do about the Youghal Bridge. Don't forget the next upstream crossing is Cappoquin, on the N72 with that dreadful hairpin. A realistic HGV diversion would be M8 to Cahir and then to Waterford along the N24.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Everyones going to jump into this thread thinking there is some magical update but there isn't. In the 2040 documents released by the government, this route is said to have adequate capacity and won't be touched, but since the rejigging of lights at the bridge in Castlemartyr it is jammed all day, and at 630pm on a Friday the jamups are back to the lake, 2.5km away from the lights.


I'm tempted to say Castlemartyr is now Irelands worst village bottleneck, in my mind it has now jumped above Claregalway and Adare as the most awful.


Its still baffling to me though how this section of the N25 feels overcapacity, has those two bottlenecks and yet isn't even on the cards to be touched before 2040. Bizarre?


Hopefully if a road opens I can look back on this post and say "It only took 20 years" or something like that.

It's not that bad. Let me brighten up your day by correcting that it won't be on the cards to be touched before 2027, not 2040

But I agree with the rest. The N22, N25 and N71 out of Cork are gaping holes in the NDP. They really should be advanced into planning & design now.

MidMan25

I live in Ladysbridge just outside Castlemartyr, evenings are terrible which forces cars onto the local roads to avoid the village. I don't know why they won't bypass the village, as the crow flies only approx 1 mile of road would be needed.

Chris_5339762

I was one of those awful people today. Google told me traffic (on a Saturday afternoon) was jammed up to the lake, 2.5km away. I took backroads to Ladysbridge and went North to Castlemartyr and turned right to get on the main road. Its awful.

bobbysands81

MidMan25 wrote: »

I live in Ladysbridge just outside Castlemartyr, evenings are terrible which forces cars onto the local roads to avoid the village. I don't know why they won't bypass the village, as the crow flies only approx 1 mile of road would be needed.

Drove the N25 through Castlemartyr for years. There’s a great shortcut through Mogeely which brings you out in Killeagh that cuts a huge amount of time off during busy times.

hans aus dtschl

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Drove the N25 through Castlemartyr for years. There’s a great shortcut through Mogeely which brings you out in Killeagh that cuts a huge amount of time off during busy times.

2-mile Inn, Mogeely, Killeagh.
Narrow roads with a relatively poor surface. But it's probably faster than the Southern diversion through Ladysbridge.

I've had close-passes on this stretch by people rat-running. This makes it safer to cycle on the N25 (sadly).
It's the same for the stretches of the Old Youghal Road or R639 with the N25/N8 in parallel: some of the rat-runners are crazy aggressive, trying to beat the main line time.
Same for the Mill Road in Macroom, come to think of it.

Roanmore

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Drove the N25 through Castlemartyr for years. There’s a great shortcut through Mogeely which brings you out in Killeagh that cuts a huge amount of time off during busy times.

That road is closed for 2 months for pipe laying.

marno21

I had a browse on Google Maps live traffic on Friday evening last and Castlemartyr was by far the worst bottleneck in Cork. What's worse is that there's no plan to deal with it in the next 15 years. Macroom, Dunkettle, Mallow, Charleville, Carrs Hill all ahead of it (of course, they all need sorting too).

Within the ~45 schemes in the NDP, most of the country's bottlenecks will be solved (Abbeyfeale, Adare, Ballybofey/Stranorlar, Carrick-on-Shannon, Carrick-on-Suir, Castlebar, Charleville, Clonmel, Dunkettle, Farranfore. Galway, Killaloe, Killarney, Letterkenny, Macroom, Mallow, Newcastle West, Slane, Tipperary Town, Virginia, Wexford).

Cork will remain with Cork city itself (the NW Quadrant at least), Inishannon, Bandon, Clonakilty, Midleton (Lakeview), Castlemartyr, Killeagh, along with the mess at Ovens which is a non-town bottleneck.

blindsider

Google Maps has Cork - Rosslare as 191km (2h41m)via N24, or 211km (2h50m) M8/N76 to Waterford, and then N24- there's a small tailback in Castlemartyr now. (You still get the benefit of the New Ross bypass)

It really won't take much of an improvement on the M8 Carrick-on-Suir route to make it the preferred option......

I know that this is far from ideal - if anything it just shows how much the N24 needs attention quickly!

BelfastVanMan

blindsider wrote: »

Google Maps has Cork - Rosslare as 191km (2h41m)via N25, or 211km (2h50m) M8/N76 to Waterford, and then N25- there's a small tailback in Castlemartyr now. (Yous still get the benefit of the New Ross bypass)

It really won't take much of an improvement on the M8 Carrick-on-Suir route to make it the preferred option......

I know that this is far from ideal - if anything it just shows how much the N25 needs attention quickly!

M8/N24 to Waterford, surely?

marno21

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

M8/N24 to Waterford, surely?

M8/N24 is correct

In the NDP the entire N24 east of the M8 is to be dualled so presumably Cork-Waterford traffic will start using that route unless they have fondness for staring at brake lights in Castlemartyr

blindsider

Well spotted Hawk Eye

Edited.

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

M8/N24 is correct

In the NDP the entire N24 east of the M8 is to be dualled so presumably Cork-Waterford traffic will start using that route unless they have fondness for staring at brake lights in Castlemartyr

144km on M8/N24 as it stands versus 124km on the N25 from Cork to Waterford (center). Not much in it as it stands, if the N24 was upgraded then I'd be tempted despite the Fermoy toll. Its odd because the M8/N24 route feels like it should be much, much longer.

spacetweek

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

144km on M8/N24 as it stands versus 124km on the N25 from Cork to Waterford (center). Not much in it as it stands, if the N24 was upgraded then I'd be tempted despite the Fermoy toll. Its odd because the M8/N24 route feels like it should be much, much longer.

Indeed the old railway route went much the same way too, you had to go Cork-Mallow-Dungarvan-Waterford.

AugustusMinimus

spacetweek wrote: »

Indeed the old railway route went much the same way too, you had to go Cork-Mallow-Dungarvan-Waterford.

It didn’t go near as far north following the Blackwater for much of it.

marno21

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/23/east-cork-castlemartyr-relief-road-badly-needed/

A whimper if ever I heard one

A Castlemartyr relief road is a waste of time for two reasons. 1. Sheer volume and 2. It pushes the problem to either Lakeview or Killeagh, or the inevitable roundabouts at either end.

A motorway from Carrigtwohill to Youghal is the only solution here

hans aus dtschl

Lakeview Roundabout is about to be upgraded:

Cork East Fine Gael TD and Minister of State at the Department of Justice, David Stanton, has been advised that work is due to commence shortly on the construction of a slip road at Lakeview Roundabout on the N25 outside Midleton.

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/22/investment-in-cork-roads-lakeview-roundabout-slip-road-midleton/

Sounds like another half-measure. Will make it more difficult/dangerous for people cycling through the Lakeview Roundabout too.

Anyone have a link to the Part 8 plan? I never saw it.

Cork Trucker

Cork,Waterford and Wexford council's need to push to make it an M25 from the JLT in Cork right the entire way to New Ross. Once you hit the Lakeview Roundabout in Midleton the only 2 decent bits of road thereafter are the Youghal Bypass and Waterford Bypass, the toll is worth it.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Lakeview Roundabout is about to be upgraded:

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/22/investment-in-cork-roads-lakeview-roundabout-slip-road-midleton/

Sounds like another half-measure. Will make it more difficult/dangerous for people cycling through the Lakeview Roundabout too.

Anyone have a link to the Part 8 plan? I never saw it.

As with the bloody railway, anything East of Midleton and West of the Waterford border is neglected. Just look at how Killeagh turned out.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/23/east-cork-castlemartyr-relief-road-badly-needed/

A whimper if ever I heard one

A Castlemartyr relief road is a waste of time for two reasons. 1. Sheer volume and 2. It pushes the problem to either Lakeview or Killeagh, or the inevitable roundabouts at either end.

A motorway from Carrigtwohill to Youghal is the only solution here

A relief road was needed 20 years as an interim before a new motorway- ridiculous to be piping up with this proposal now, why wasn’t he pushing for this years ago?

MidMan25

road_high wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/23/east-cork-castlemartyr-relief-road-badly-needed/

A whimper if ever I heard one

A Castlemartyr relief road is a waste of time for two reasons. 1. Sheer volume and 2. It pushes the problem to either Lakeview or Killeagh, or the inevitable roundabouts at either end.

A motorway from Carrigtwohill to Youghal is the only solution here

A relief road was needed 20 years as an interim before a new motorway- ridiculous to be piping up with this proposal now, why wasn’t he pushing for this years ago?

Typical reactionary bs from politicians. Castlemartyr has long been a traffic black spot but the nearby roads being closed the last few weeks caused some massive delays. The Mogeely road was closed for a few months as well which caused long delays at rush hour.

Cork Trucker

From today's echo

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Solutions-are-needed-to-Castlemartyrs-traffic-woes-c8cdb772-0387-4fa9-b742-9c8b089b082a-ds


Stanton needs to wake up and realise a full bypass is needed of both Castlemartyr & Killeagh

“A Castlemartyr relief road to alleviate traffic congestion is badly needed,” says David Stanton TD Cork East Fine Gael and Minister of State at the Department of Justice.

FGR

Just a quick one - is the Mogeely to 2 mile inn road still closed?

You'd notice the increase in traffic through Castlemartyr without it.

MidMan25

FGR wrote: »

Just a quick one - is the Mogeely to 2 mile inn road still closed?

You'd notice the increase in traffic through Castlemartyr without it.

No, reopened a few weeks ago.

Cork Trucker

It's not enough but it's a start

https://twitter.com/JamesOConnorTCD/status/1161400184296919041?s=20

marno21

Nothing below motorway standard is of use here. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Nothing below motorway standard is of use here. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Spot on. All this will do is push the problem onto Killeagh. Separately the Youghal Bypass was closed Westbound yesterday morning when i was in the area from 10-11.30. The Lakeview Roundabout works are looking messy at the minute, hopefully it's worth it.

waxmelts2000

Huge delays yesterday evening on my way home to Youghal, however for a change it was the other side.
Approaching Lakeview Roundabout from Castlemartyr due to the roadworks. Any idea how long these are due to take?
Still long enough delays into Castlemartyr in the evenings even with the Mogeely Road back open

Cork Trucker

Valyawl wrote: »

Huge delays yesterday evening on my way home to Youghal, however for a change it was the other side.
Approaching Lakeview Roundabout from Castlemartyr due to the roadworks. Any idea how long these are due to take?
Still long enough delays into Castlemartyr in the evenings even with the Mogeely Road back open

They only starting setting up those road works when i was on the way down yeterday at 09.45/10.00, quite late i thought, no idea how long it'll last though. there's a spike in road works across the city at the moment i'm noticing.

Chris_5339762

Trying to get it all in before the schools go back, I'd reckon.

Edit: I love the way that pic above is a stock image of a road which isn't even in Ireland

marno21

I have been away recently and I hadn't realised there has been 2 people killed on this road in the LAST MONTH.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Gardai-issue-a-special-appeal-for-motorists-to-take-care-following-six-fatal-road-crashes-in-Cork-in-the-past-month-43148abd-d0aa-4062-b00b-e5d84afc8386-ds

As if there wasn't enough reason to upgrade.

marno21

“I understand that it is hoped that any relief road project will be under 5km which would constitute a ‘minor improvement scheme’. This would allow the project to be progressed by TII without a need to be included in the National Development Plan. Castlemartyr village suffers severe congestion on a daily basis and a short relief road would greatly reduce current traffic problems”, concluded Minister Stanton.

Crisps for dinner again lads.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Crisps for dinner again lads.

I know Castlemartyr is a major bottleneck (one of three) between Cork and Youghal, but the idea of a short bypass of Castlemartyr doesn't sit well with me. Either do the job right or don't do it at all. We have these short "relief roads" all over the county and they're mostly short-lived. There's needs to be a proper bypass of Midleton (I'd prefer an underpass), Castlemartyr and Killeagh.

Short little relief roads tend to also encourage sprawl and detract from the centre of the town.

Cork Trucker

Just seen this article from February 2016, a farce.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/killeagh-bypass-delayed-383664.html

Chris_5339762

If you want to do it really half-assed you can get the relief road for less than 1.5km of road.

I'd rather the proper bypass TBH. But its hard to argue with that, you could do it for a few million... unfortunately it would take as long as the main scheme to plan and build.

marno21

Latest from Eamon Ryan:

Within the overall context of Project Ireland 2040, the NDP was developed to underpin the successful implementation of the national planning framework, NPF. This provides the strategic and financial framework for the national roads programme for the period from 2018 to 2027. The focus of TII's activities over the coming years is, accordingly, being directed towards the development of the major national road improvement schemes that are included in the NDP, along with the maintenance of the existing national road network. The proposed N25 Castlemartyr bypass is not included among those projects which have been identified for development during the period of the NDP.

However, it should be noted that the programme for Government commits to bringing forward the planned review of the NDP from 2022 and to use the review to set out an updated NDP for the period out to 2031. The review of the NDP will be aligned with the NPF and Project Ireland 2040. Work is under way within the Department to contribute to this planned review. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight that all projects, including those listed in the NDP or any revision to the NDP, require statutory approval and compliance with the public spending code.

While I have stated that this scheme is not within the scope of the NDP, I understand that Cork County Council, which is the road authority for the area, is currently undertaking a feasibility study on the possibility of providing a short to medium-term relief road for the N25 through traffic around the village of Castlemartyr. The study will consider the constraints that will need to be examined in the planning of such a scheme and will consider whether a compulsory purchase order and an environmental impact assessment report are likely to be required.

Following a recent interim review of the ongoing feasibility study in quarter 1 of 2020, TII awaits the final report before deciding on the next steps. TII expects to have this by September 2020. Consequently, there is currently no definite project at this stage. The outcome of the final feasibility study on the N25 at Castlemartyr is awaited before a decision can be made on the best way to proceed. In any event, I understand from TII that extensive improvement works in Killeagh were recently completed to improve the streetscape and traffic issues in the village.

The Castlemartyr bypass scheme, if found to be viable and feasible, could remove a significant portion of national through traffic from the village and improve journey times and reliability. It could also lead to environmental benefits with an improvement in the air quality and noise in the village itself. The impact of the likely benefits will be informed by the feasibility study.

To date, I understand from TII that a small amount of funding has been allocated by TII to Cork County Council to carry out the feasibility study and this work is ongoing and is due to conclude shortly.

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

It could also lead to environmental benefits with an improvement in the air quality and noise in the village itself.

I don't like Eamon Ryan at all, and am very fearful for the roads program, but it is good news that he (or his speechwriter) is at least open to the idea of a bypass actually PROVIDING environmental benefit rather than "We're Green, no roads".

marno21

https://twitter.com/jamesoconnortd/status/1303432303524405249

This fella has been making racket about the N25 since he got elected. He’s clearly in tune with the scale of the issue.

Fingers crossed it makes the soon to be reviewed National Development Plan.

Gunner3629

The traffic and backlogs are worse than ever here lately. I don't know if its the people coming from Cork to Youghal or what but its terrible now every evening. And the mad thing is, there is still so many people working from home. Wait till they start heading back to the City for work.

namloc1980

Had to take my kid to a match in Killeagh a few evenings ago. The traffic at Castlemartyr was absolutely mind blowing. Couldn't believe it. I usually check google maps or whatever but didn't this time. It was tailing back at least to the lake.

KrisW1001

Castlemartyr needs a relief road regardless of any N25 upgrade.

N25 really is not over-capacity. The problem in Cork is Castlemartyr, and the way it gathers all traffic into a long platoon, so that everyone ends up travelling at the speed of the slowest driver; that makes Killeagh into a problem too, as there’s not enough time for the traffic to separate out into small groups before it hits the lights there.

Like a lot of people here, I’ve had a lot of time to think about how you could quickly fix the problem. Here’s the cheapest thing I could come up with in terms of a relief road:

BelfastVanMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117747134#Comment_117747134

Good idea. Very similar to what they did in the mid 1970s in Tobercurry, and at least it cleared the majority of traffic off the main street at least.

Gunner3629

Atleast someone cares about this issue.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1006/1251089-politics-td/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40714595.html

blindsider

I get the impression that the Dublin media are trying to downplay this, and his chances of success. focussing on his being the youngest TD....suggesting that he's inexperienced etc, and has employed the wrong tactics here....

This bypass is badly needed, as is the M20 - I hope he sticks to his guns!

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1007/1252420-james-o-connor-fianna-fail/

BelfastVanMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990997#Comment_117990997

Brilliant news.

Let's hope it's followed through on.

Chris_5339762

Good news. I'm glad he did it. The government will not want one of their own quitting, and he is probably not long enough in the job to know that throwing a strop like this is bad news for him, and not good optics for the party. So hopefully this'll move something.

Like maybe a huge junction replacement at Lakeview and HQDC to lets say Youghal and a 2+2 of the Youghal bypass and a big new bridge, all 2+2 at Rincrew. Not too much to ask for at all at all.

KrisW1001

The catchment of this road here in no way justifies anything over a 2+2, and anywhere east of Castlemartyr that’s pushing things. East of Youghal in County Waterford, there’s no need for anything over what’s there already until you hit Dungarvan. (If you wanted to spend money in this part of County Waterford, improving the quality of N72 and the regional routes that connect it and N25 would be a much better use of funds)

Castlemartyr is where large amounts of commuter-belt traffic from Garryvoe inwards joins N25. That’s why it’s so congested. East of Castlemartyr there just isn’t anywhere that big. (A lot of Mogeely’s traffic is due to longer-distance commuters from Youghal using it as an de-facto bypass of Castlemartyr, and it’s that behaviour that is the cause of a lot of the problems in Killeagh)

There’s not much need for 2+2 beyond Castlemartyr - there are precisely two little-used, at-grade junctions on the road between it and Killeagh, and traffic is generally okay here - it either moves freely, or is backed up because of Castlemartyr. If Castlemartyr bypassed with something similar to the Youghal bypass with a relief road to stop Garryvoe traffic needing to come right into the village, there would be nothing needed until the far side of Killeagh except a Type 1 Single carriageway to cut the corner to the South-East of that village.

This could be done very cost effectively, while still leaving something of use for an eventual 2+2 along the whole length of N25.

Gunner3629

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003812#Comment_118003812

Exactly, and that is pretty much what O’Connor TD is proposing. Castlemaryr and Killeagh relief roads - north of Castlemartyr and south of Killeagh. Both would be cost effective and not require huge capital investment. I agree, no need for 2 x 2 although I would like a short overtaking lane. Similar to the Dungarvan sweep. I dont think we’re asking for too much considering the investment in Macroom, and I cannot understand why it is not on the NDP.

KrisW1001

If that’s what he’s really looking for, he should know that it would not be big enough to be specifically listed in the NDP, and would instead be included under the “local relief roads” headings.

N25 Castlemartyr bypass is not a dead project. TII has been giving Cork County Council around 100k a year for it for a few years - that’s not much (a year of one engineer’s time), but there is something being done on it, at least.

Here’s what I think the cheapest possible option would look like, but I really wouldn’t like to see that many roundabouts around Castlemartyr.: