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Could someone explain these licensing terms to me?

  • 20-05-2019 9:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Hello, i'm a gombeen with a .223 and much confusion.

    Could someone kindly explain the following firearms licensing terms to me because I saw a topic where restricted guns were said to only be used at firing ranged and this confused me because I have friends that use .30-06 and .308 for game hunting.

    Firearms Certificate - .223, .234, .22 etc.
    Limited - Airguns and Shotguns (3 shell magazine tube)
    Restricted - .30-06, .308, .303 etc. Are they classified as restricted only because of the size and power of the bullet? A friend of my brother has as AR-15 styled .22 rifle, would this be classified as restricted because of its design? (I can't ask him because I am very rarely in contact with him)
    Training - Well just if you are training (14 or 16 year olds)

    Are historical pieces such as Lee Enfields or Mp40s or 44s classified as restricted based on appearance or caliber?

    Thank you in advance! (I may add more questions as they come to me)


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    If you go to the sub menu "Important and useful information" all your questions and more have been answered in there along with all the links to the relevant S.I.'s on firearms.
    Have fun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    solarwinds wrote: »
    If you go to the sub menu "Important and useful information" all your questions and more have been answered in there along with all the links to the relevant S.I.'s on firearms.
    Have fun.
    Oh stupid me, thank you very much! :)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Hello, i'm a gombeen with a .223 and much confusion.
    Say hello to your kin :D

    Welcome to the forum.
    Firearms Certificate - .223, .234, .22 etc.
    Firearm certificate is a license to hold a firearm like your 223. It is for unrestricted firearms only and is issued by the Superintendent of a district. It includes most types of commonly used fireams, a few too many to fully list but the basics would include (for bolt action rifles)
    • .22lr (all rimfire calibers)
    • .17hmr
    • .22 Hornet
    • 220 Swift
    • .204
    • .223
    • .243 (6mm and all the variants)
    • 6.5 (all the variants)
    • .270 (7mm and all the variants)
    • .308 (30cal and all the variants including 30-06, 300 WinMag.)

    For Shotguns unrestricted includes all gauges, but is aimed at the design of the gun. A pistol grip stock, or shotgun that can hold more than three shots is restricted.
    Limited - Airguns and Shotguns (3 shell magazine tube)
    In terms of a limited license it means it's for a shotgun only (not a rifle), and the shotgun can only be used on the lands nominated on the application. It's the replacement for the old £6 farmers license.
    Restricted - .30-06, .308, .303 etc. Are they classified as restricted only because of the size and power of the bullet?
    Restricted rifles are restricted based on design, mag capacity and caliber.
    • Anything over 30cal (8mm and up)
    • Semi auto centrefire
    • Semi auto rimfire with a mag larger than 10 rounds
    • Bolt action rimfire rifle with a mag larger than 10 rounds
    A friend of my brother has as AR-15 styled .22 rifle, would this be classified as restricted because of its design? (I can't ask him because I am very rarely in contact with him)
    Design, possibly. Its at the discretion of the Superintendent. Also if he uses a mag that can hold more than 10 rounds (doesn't matter if you load more than 10 only that the mag can hold more than 10) it's restricted.
    Training - Well just if you are training (14 or 16 year olds)
    If it training license then this is a license designed for anyone of any age to gain experience, but it's aimed towards youngsters between the ages of 14 to 16.

    As a youngster under 16 cannot legally hold a license for a firearm they can get a training license. This allows them to use a firearm under the supervision of another person over the age of 18. However there are conditions:
    • The youngster cannot posses the gun on their own, ever.
    • There must be someone over the age of 18 with a full firearms license for the firearm the youngster wants to license.
    • The trainee cannot store the gun at their home, it must be stored with the main licensee at all times.
    The benefit of a training license other than to gain experience is when the person turns 16 they can use the previous two year training license as their proof of competence.
    Are historical pieces such as Lee Enfields or Mp40s or 44s classified as restricted based on appearance or caliber?
    Some guns are restricted, some are prohibited, and others illegal.

    The M1 garand is a semi auto firearm so it's restricted. The Lee Enfield (and i'm really bad with old guns so someone else can correct me) is unrestricted as it's 30cal and bolt action. Firearms like the MP40 are fully auto and hence prohibited. IOW you won't get a license for one.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Cass wrote: »
    Firearms like the MP40 are fully auto and hence prohibited. IOW you won't get a license for one.

    Thank you very, very much for your reply!

    The same friend of my brother has a Semi Automatic MP40 in .22. I have a video of him shooting it if you want a laugh :)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    I thought you meant the "real" one.

    In 22lr and being semi auto is could be licensed and most likely would be restricted. Mag size, and design would make it restricted, but it might slip through as unrestricted.

    It's made by a company called GSG. They take popular firearms over history and make copies of them in calibers that can be licensed.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Cass wrote: »
    I thought you meant the "real" one.

    In 22lr and being semi auto is could be licensed and most likely would be restricted. Mag size, and design would make it restricted, but it might slip through as unrestricted.

    It's made by a company called GSG. They take popular firearms over history and make copies of them in calibers that can be licensed.

    Oh yes i've heard of them, they have a .22 1911 for olympic target shooting or something similar?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    I thought you meant the "real" one.

    In 22lr and being semi auto is could be licensed and most likely would be restricted. Mag size, and design would make it restricted, but it might slip through as unrestricted.

    It's made by a company called GSG. They take popular firearms over history and make copies of them in calibers that can be licensed.

    You can actually get a semi auto MP40 ,[obviously restricted] that is built out of original parts,but has an entirely differet firing mechanism so it works in semi auto only,and has been tweaked to not be able to accept FA parts.Its hideously expensive Neidermayer waffen in Munich make them.

    GSG also make a stockless version in 9mm for the US market,dunno if it will be for sale in the EU.
    https://www.waffen-niedermeier.de/de/shop/langwaffen/10963_haenel_steyr_erma_mp40_sa_selbstladebchse.htmls well[4250 euro].

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭ LIFFY FISHING


    Question / Comment for Cass please...
    In your very informative section on calibers etc, you stated "anything over 30 cal - 8mm and up" is restricted by caliber...not quite so...the K98 is 7.9mm and gets classified as a Restricted Firearm by Caliber...pain in the hole ....??


  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭ hedzball


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You can actually get a semi auto MP40 ,[obviously restricted] that is built out of original parts,but has an entirely differet firing mechanism so it works in semi auto only,and has been tweaked to not be able to accept FA parts.Its hideously expensive Neidermayer waffen in Munich make them.

    GSG also make a stockless version in 9mm for the US market,dunno if it will be for sale in the EU.
    https://www.waffen-niedermeier.de/de/shop/langwaffen/10963_haenel_steyr_erma_mp40_sa_selbstladebchse.htmls well[4250 euro].


    Your gun knowledge actually astounds me..

    Grizzlepedia.ie more like! Fair play!


    'Hdz


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You can actually get a semi auto MP40 ,[obviously restricted] that is built out of original parts,but has an entirely differet firing mechanism so it works in semi auto only,and has been tweaked to not be able to accept FA parts.Its hideously expensive Neidermayer waffen in Munich make them.

    GSG also make a stockless version in 9mm for the US market,dunno if it will be for sale in the EU.
    well[4250 euro].

    James McBride has sold one for about €2000 / 2500. I've heard that its quite easy to transform one of these into fully automatic only, with only an angle grinder (Most likely BS haha)

    Is it true that it's pretty much impossible to get a 9mm handgun in this country?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    James McBride has sold one for about €2000 / 2500. I've heard that its quite easy to transform one of these into fully automatic only, with only an angle grinder (Most likely BS haha)

    Is it true that it's pretty much impossible to get a 9mm handgun in this country?

    Yes utter BS! If it is a German gun design,I can tell you straight off,it wouldnt be for sale in Germany or the EU for that matter.Every gun design offerd for sale in Germany has to go to the Federal technical firearms test centre,to be tested for this very thing in Weisbaden.And these lads are professors in engineering,mechanics,and all the rest.All professors and doktors in that place.
    They even have had to test a designer handbag and sthiletho shoes with a knuckle duster style heel and a knuckle duster style handgrip as to whether both violated the prohibited weapons section of German weapons law.The handbag passed,the shoes didnt.:P

    It takes about two months for a gun to be tested for legality,and especially these semi auto designs as Germany still has a war weapons control act,so if they are using genuine surplus parts,they cannot violate this act either.If these boys cant get a gun to fire as it should not,with normal household tools.[Lathes and milling machines,arent considerd normal household tools in Germany] that you find in Herr Schmidts hobby celler.Then it wont fire or be easily converted to full auto.Or even be a "military style asault rifle "or look like one" either.

    That last point BTW has also been accepted in Irish courts that evidence from Weisbaden,is a satisfactory definition of a make or type of gun for sale as not being an "assault rifle" as well.

    So you can call Bull on that armchair gunsmith fable.It would be easier to go and build from scrap a SMG than convert some of those designs from Germany.
    Yes it is impossible to own a 9mm[or any centre fire caliber] handgun here unless you had a liscense for it pre Nov 2008.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Yes utter BS! If it is a German gun design,I can tell you straight off,it wouldnt be for sale in Germany or the EU for that matter.Every gun design offerd for sale in Germany has to go to the Federal technical firearms test centre,to be tested for this very thing in Weisbaden.And these lads are professors in engineering,mechanics,and all the rest.All professors and doktors in that place.
    They even have had to test a designer handbag and sthiletho shoes with a knuckle duster style heel and a knuckle duster style handgrip as to whether both violated the prohibited weapons section of German weapons law.The handbag passed,the shoes didnt.:P

    It takes about two months for a gun to be tested for legality,and especially these semi auto designs as Germany still has a war weapons control act,so if they are using genuine surplus parts,they cannot violate this act either.If these boys cant get a gun to fire as it should not,with normal household tools.[Lathes and milling machines,arent considerd normal household tools in Germany] that you find in Herr Schmidts hobby celler.Then it wont fire or be easily converted to full auto.Or even be a "military style asault rifle "or look like one" either.

    That last point BTW has also been accepted in Irish courts that evidence from Weisbaden,is a satisfactory definition of a make or type of gun for sale as not being an "assault rifle" as well.

    So you can call Bull on that armchair gunsmith fable.It would be easier to go and build from scrap a SMG than convert some of those designs from Germany.
    Yes it is impossible to own a 9mm[or any centre fire caliber] handgun here unless you had a liscense for it pre Nov 2008.


    Very interesting! I'd love to throw my stupid questions at you all day everyday if you'd be willing to give me this same detailing for all ;)

    Why is the government so keen on preventing us from being able to own 'military styled' weapons? As we saw from the tragic Regency hotel incident, criminals have access to Kalashnikov like firearms in the republic so what happens when the public cant protect themselves or their families? I mean when seconds count, the gardaí are only minutes away!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Question / Comment for Cass please...
    In your very informative section on calibers etc, you stated "anything over 30 cal - 8mm and up" is restricted by caliber...not quite so...the K98 is 7.9mm and gets classified as a Restricted Firearm by Caliber...pain in the hole ....??

    I'll take your word for it.

    I don't know all the calibers and i use the "over 30cal, 8mm+" as a rough guide.

    I spoke to a few lads years ago about the Lee Enfields (i'm not into older rifles) and one lad had an unrestricted license for his and the another had a restricted license. Apparently, and again i don't know only going on what i was told, some models or years of manufacture of the Lee Enfield had a 7.8 or 7.9 bullet and this guy was made apply for restricted license.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭ LIFFY FISHING


    Cass wrote: »
    I'll take your word for it.

    I don't know all the calibers and i use the "over 30cal, 8mm+" as a rough guide.

    I spoke to a few lads years ago about the Lee Enfields (i'm not into older rifles) and one lad had an unrestricted license for his and the another had a restricted license. Apparently, and again i don't know only going on what i was told, some models or years of manufacture of the Lee Enfield had a 7.8 or 7.9 bullet and this guy was made apply for restricted license.

    Lee Enfields are generally .303 however there are .308 Enfields...and really to confuse things there are Lee Enfields no8 which are actually .22lr calibers.
    Dont get me started on " sporterised " Enfields ...they can even be 410 shotguns.....

    As you say Classic / Service rifles are a whole different ballbreaker ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Going by super super unrealistic technicalities, would it be possible to get an M82 if it was ever possible to get it chambered in .22LR? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Get a Ruger 10/22, make up a clamshell outside looking like a Barrett,and add 10lbs of lead into the design.;)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭ tac foley


    The measurement .303-inch (7.70 mm) is the nominal size of the bore measured between the lands which follows the older and original black powder nomenclature. Measured between the grooves, the nominal size of the bore is .311-inch (7.90 mm). Bores for many .303 military surplus rifles are often found ranging from around .309-inch (7.85 mm) up to .318-inch (8.08 mm). Recommended bullet diameter for standard .303 British cartridges is .312-inch (7.92 mm).[6]

    Here in UK, where there are a very great number of Lee-Enfields of ALL eras, commercial ammunition from PPU and others, are .312". Bullets for reloading, however, are available from .311 right up to .314.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭ tac foley


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Going by super super unrealistic technicalities, would it be possible to get an M82 if it was ever possible to get it chambered in .22LR? :D

    With a bit of math involved, I can advise you the smaller hole of the .22 cal will involve a weight gain of almost 2.22 kg.

    Lugging THAT around the fields might pose a bit of a problem. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Get a Ruger 10/22, make up a clamshell outside looking like a Barrett,and add 10lbs of lead into the design.;)

    Oh yes perfect ;)


    I presume its legal for me to make modifications to a firearm myself? As in I could fabricate my own barrel or muzzle break, I wouldnt need it to be made by a registered gunsmith or whatever?


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    tac foley wrote: »
    With a bit of math involved, I can advise you the smaller hole of the .22 cal will involve a weight gain of almost 2.22 kg.

    Lugging THAT around the fields might pose a bit of a problem. :)


    Ara its a show piece, something to admire on the mantel piece ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭ tac foley


    @Grizzly - I have two lathes and a small mill, too, in my workshop. But I also build small steam trains with them, rather than use them to make uh, certain parts for converting legal guns into illegal guns. And if you are looking for a GSG firearm that would REALLY generate a few heart attacks in the Republic, take a peek at their very fine replication of the StG44.......:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Ye wouldn't happen to have any scope recommendations? I had my eye on a Bushnell Banner


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭ tac foley


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Ye wouldn't happen to have any scope recommendations? I had my eye on a Bushnell Banner

    Very droll.


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    tac foley wrote: »
    Very droll.




    My english is sub optimal so I don't understand that :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Oh yes perfect ;)


    I presume its legal for me to make modifications to a firearm myself? As in I could fabricate my own barrel or muzzle break, I wouldnt need it to be made by a registered gunsmith or whatever?

    Errr NO! Re the barrel,and a case of No,[but I wont say anything ,if you dont say anything re a muzzle break] Both are considerd firearm parts here in the ROI,and it is only possible to make them if you are a gunsmith,or a gun dealer.:rolleyes: How you can go from being a person who sells firearms to being ,in any other EU country a guild craftsman with at least a five year apprenticeship in this field is beyond me. Some work here by "gunsmiths" in Ireland has to be seen to be belived.Both appaling and fantastic. But then most laws involving firearms globally make no sense whatsoever.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Errr NO! Re the barrel,and a case of No,[but I wont say anything ,if you dont say anything re a muzzle break] Both are considerd firearm parts here in the ROI,and it is only possible to make them if you are a gunsmith,or a gun dealer.:rolleyes: How you can go from being a person who sells firearms to being ,in any other EU country a guild craftsman with at least a five year apprenticeship in this field is beyond me. Some work here by "gunsmiths" in Ireland has to be seen to be belived.Both appaling and fantastic. But then most laws involving firearms globally make no sense whatsoever.


    I find it awful strange how taboo firearms seem to be to 95% of people i talk to it's mad really :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭ tac foley


    Doing ANYTHING to a pressure-bearing component of a firearm in the UK has to be done by a registered gunsmith/RFD. Since the RoI has no gunsmithing schools that I know of, that would offer a certified trade skill [which being a gunsmith certainly is], nor the requirement to prove to a guild that you have mastered the skills and artifices of gunsmithing, it's a matter of word of mouth recommendation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    I find it awful strange how taboo firearms seem to be to 95% of people i talk to it's mad really :mad:

    Welcome to the 5% who keep it real.:D

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ Bagpipe


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Welcome to the 5% who keep it real.:D


    Not many gun clubs in the west atall :( I'd love to go out on a group bird shoot.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    Plenty of clubs in the west. What do you mean by a group bird shoot, like a driven shoot ?.


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