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Hansons Method

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Singer wrote: »

    That was a cracking run......I'd forgotten just how much of a negative split you posted :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Singer wrote: »
    A few reasons for going a little faster (I've been running 6:40-6:46/mile so far, targeting 6:52 for some reason :) )

    - I've been doing these on a pretty flat loop
    - Slim chance of following the race line exactly, i.e. not wanting to run a GPS sub-3
    - years of people saying "train for 2:55 to run sub-3" on the sub-3 support thread :)
    - For an optimal running of Dublin, you're going to spend half of the marathon running faster than target pace, as there are enough hills and bumps that are worth slowing down for. I'll need to run very optimally to meet my target, and so want to be pretty comfortable running at faster than 6:52 for all but one or two miles after mile 10 or so.
    Well there's your answer then. Train for 2:55 and run 2:55. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭jaggiebunnet


    was away on hols last week and never executed any of my runs at the pace they were supposed to be or the 14miler - could only manage 10, due to hills heat and possibly alcohol the night before. Back now and confidence is dangling after finding the last MP run so easy before vacation only to struggle so hard with all the paces while away. Need a good week now to get me back on it. and convince myself that the 15 is well doable on Sun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 walkin round town


    Hi all. I'm following the plan. Doing a slightly lower mileage version of the advanced plan. DCM will be my first marathon. Quick question re goal setting. I thought I'd get a race in along the way but probably won't now. Feel like I've made good gains since starting the plan. Haven't put this in record but may target a sub 3. I've been hitting all the paces so far. PB's are as follows:

    5k 18.17
    10k 37.45
    10m 64.40
    Half 1.27.15

    I've never followed a plan, this is the highest mileage I've ever done. Even if I did race now I think the fatigue in the legs would stop me getting a really good PB!

    So, am I mad thinking about a sub 3? Enjoying the plan. Tempo runs in particular are really beneficial. Have got into a good routine now and really hoping I can drive on next few weeks.

    Any thoughts welcome. Have enjoyed the discussion on this thread and elsewhere on the athletic forum. Hope everyones training is going well.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Hi all. I'm following the plan. Doing a slightly lower mileage version of the advanced plan. DCM will be my first marathon. Quick question re goal setting. I thought I'd get a race in along the way but probably won't now. Feel like I've made good gains since starting the plan. Haven't put this in record but may target a sub 3. I've been hitting all the paces so far. PB's are as follows:

    5k 18.17
    10k 37.45
    10m 64.40
    Half 1.27.15

    I've never followed a plan, this is the highest mileage I've ever done. Even if I did race now I think the fatigue in the legs would stop me getting a really good PB!

    So, am I mad thinking about a sub 3? Enjoying the plan. Tempo runs in particular are really beneficial. Have got into a good routine now and really hoping I can drive on next few weeks.

    Any thoughts welcome. Have enjoyed the discussion on this thread and elsewhere on the athletic forum. Hope everyones training is going well.

    Welcome! Most would probably say sub 3 is ambitious and for a number of reasons. A) It's your first. B) The Half time is not really indicative of sub 3 and C) Your mileage sounds low.

    However, that said if you are hitting the training times/paces and feeling ok with them you might be on for it. Then there is stuff like age, weight and 'potential'. You might be a future 2:20 marathoner for all we know and the sub 3 might prove a piece of cake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 walkin round town


    Hi itziger thanks for your reply. Definitely an ambitious target! Think I need to have one to really keep me motivated. I ran the half in April. I had an average of 30km a week for 3/4 months before it. Training was completely unstructured. I'm mid thirties now, busy family, job etc. I think Hanson's equivalent time for my half is 3.05.

    I think it being my first marathon is what's really making me doubt breaking 3. On the other hand I can't see myself doing many marathons for a few reasons so 10 weeks in to the plan I'm thinking no time like the present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    When did you do the 10m?
    Based on the bare figures above, it would appear endurance is a major issue (c. 16secs per mile slower for just 3 extra miles 10m>HM). That doesn't bode well for the marathon. You have less than that in hand for double the distance. Couple that with everything Itziger says above and even 3:05 looks very optimistic. Based on what you've written, I'd suggest 3:20-3:30 is a more realistic target for now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    My PBs are pretty similar and I'm training for sub-3...

    5k: 18:07 (Bob Heffernan May 2019)
    10k: 38:18 (Drogheda 10k May 2019)
    10M: 1:06:12 (Frank Duffy 2017)
    HM: 1:27:33 (Dublin Half 2017)

    My profile's quite different though, running for 5 years, I've done a few marathons (some good, some bad) and consistent running all year (just about to go over 2000 miles and running ~70 miles a week in Hanson). My races have improved a good deal this year after a couple of years of plateauing so my 10M and HM are irrelevant (at least I hope they are). You do however appear to be running pretty fast despite the lack of structure, so you could respond very well to the plan. What paces have you been doing the sessions at? How have they felt? Reducing milage gets rid of some of the magic of the plan, in that you're not running your sessions when fatigued, so you're could be missing out on the foundation of running when culmatively fatigued.

    Being in your mid-thirties with a busy job and family is no excuse. Try being in your forties :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 walkin round town


    Hi Yaboya, 10m was close to four years ago. Haven't done one since! Thought it was closer to 11/12 seconds slower ;) but yeah I hear what you're saying. I am an optimist though!

    Hi Singer, we have very similar PBs! I've done all the tempo runs at under 6.52 p/m and haven't shortened these. All the speed stuff averaging around 3.40-3.45 p/km. All of the sessions felt good. It's some of the easy runs that I've shortened. I know what you mean about the cumulative fatigue. I did think maybe I'm codding myself a bit hitting all the session paces but only because I'm doing less easy miles. I've probably averaged around 45 miles per week, last week was 54 though. I hope to get closer to the plan for the remainder. Being in your forties just means you're bringing even more experience to the table!! Out of interest what's your marathon PB?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Hi Singer, we have very similar PBs! I've done all the tempo runs at under 6.52 p/m and haven't shortened these. All the speed stuff averaging around 3.40-3.45 p/km. All of the sessions felt good. It's some of the easy runs that I've shortened. I know what you mean about the cumulative fatigue. I did think maybe I'm codding myself a bit hitting all the session paces but only because I'm doing less easy miles. I've probably averaged around 45 miles per week, last week was 54 though. I hope to get closer to the plan for the remainder. Being in your forties just means you're bringing even more experience to the table!! Out of interest what's your marathon PB?

    3:09 last year at Dublin is my marathon PB. I started training for it this time last year after a summer of dossing around. Other than the week immediately following the marathon, things have been pretty solid and my PBs have kicked on, hence the naive optimism :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,414 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Week 10 is week 1 for me unfortunately. Didn't attempt the 8m tempo - following advice and started at 6, which felt OK at first and was brutally difficult by the end - got a stitch and had to stop and try to massage my guts. Paused the watch while doing this, of course. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Irregular mini-update time.

    I'm noticing this 5 sessions in 10/11 days pattern and then the easy weekend. In theory and practice, I guess that makes the second Thursday of the Tues/Thurs/Sun/Tues/Thurs cycle a tough little MP run. And so it proved today. I think most of my paces are tough as my target is ambitious. If I feel it's becoming untenable I might reel it in a few seconds per km.

    For some reason (the previous Sunday's 24k w 20 at 4.24??) I found the 4x1200 on Tuesday really hard. Afterwards I was happy to see the paces on Garmin were spot on. Today was the first of the 7 mile Thursday tempo runs and as I sad on Strava I was working to get the pace down. I did grow into the run mind which must be a good thing and in the end I managed it on target.

    I'm not doing the Wed rest thing as I'd feel weird having two sessions with nothing in between. I think I need the recovery run or I'd be picking up an injury.

    How are the DCM crew getting on? Not that long to go for you lot!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Dunno about the rest of ye, but I'm definitely feeling like I'm following a marathon plan. The sessions are simple but hard. I've been off pace and expected effort a few times but with reasonable cause (bad sleep / a hangover). However the plan is building well and it definitely feels like it's doing something... still feels a long way off being ready to race 26.2 miles at the target pace though. Optimistically there's just 3 long runs left, pessimistically there's another 57@MP miles :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭rooneyjm


    Amsterdam booked so I’m locked in. Starting to feel good, paces are coming a bit easier to hit. 4 x 1.5 miles Tuesday @6.30 which is a few sec faster than target but I felt fine and 9 miles MP tonight a few seconds faster than target (6.45). Breathing feeling comfortable ish at MP ( could I get a drink into me without half choking to death).


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,414 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Once again I’m just jumping into second half but it feels good to be doing marathon specific stuff again. I’m working off a new set of paces/HR rates based on recent LT testing so I’m having to get used to tempo runs at slower pace than the previous few marathon cycles (none of which were fully committed). Training for 3:30+ rather than 3:20. This feels like it will pay off at some point, but obviously not in October. Recalibrating, back to basics. #noregrets ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭jaggiebunnet


    vacation and other various commitments have seen the middle of the 18 weeks take a battering for me. Missed a few runs, missed a few targets in terms of pace, finding it hard to get the time to do the runs in entirety, last night an example, no warm or cool down had to just get right into the MP miles, not great, i did it last week too and found the legs were not very good the next couple of days. Hopefully can keep going but i don't expect to be hitting the original planned time even if i still train at those paces. It's a pity, I think the plan is really good but time is going against me now in terms of getting out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Singer wrote: »
    Dunno about the rest of ye, but I'm definitely feeling like I'm following a marathon plan. The sessions are simple but hard. I've been off pace and expected effort a few times but with reasonable cause (bad sleep / a hangover). However the plan is building well and it definitely feels like it's doing something... still feels a long way off being ready to race 26.2 miles at the target pace though. Optimistically there's just 3 long runs left, pessimistically there's another 57@MP miles :D

    :confused: does 3x16 not equal 48;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭Kissy Lips


    Going good. Hitting all the sessions. The Thursday tempo after the easy Sunday is definitely easier as said above.

    Not a park in Dublin I can go into now after verbals with ignorant dog walkers. You know the usual invisible extender leads going right across the path etc.

    Lough Sheelin challenge this Sunday to make the 16 miler more enjoyable. Looking forward to it.

    First strength session was hard to dial into. Kept going too fast. The 920xt isnt great at updating pace especially around leafy trees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 walkin round town


    First time following a proper plan so have nothing to compare it to. Enjoying it even if it feels pretty relentless at times! The three 16 milers are looming now.

    Living in a hilly area is not good for the tempo sessions! Trying to find flattish routes is a challenge without going up and back the same road over and over and having the neighbours think I'm (even more) mad.

    It has been pointed out to me on here and by friends that endurance is my weak point. Was half thinking if extending the middle 16 miler to 18. Don't think it's going to have a big effect one way or the other but psychologically it'll do me good I think.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,414 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    No need to extend the 16 miler unless you know something the Hanson/Hurmphry team doesn't - e.g you are used to running high mileage and it's proportionate.

    Hilly tempos are good if the marathon course has hills. Always good to try to replicate the race terrain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 walkin round town


    I obviously wouldn't know how to construct a training plan if my life depended on it!! Really. But... It might make me feel a bit more confident about things... Somehow. Which how I haven't worked out.

    Hills are great but if you live half way up a mountain and you're trying to stick to paces running on said mountain... I hope I don't encounter hills like that on the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,414 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I obviously wouldn't know how to construct a training plan if my life depended on it!! Really. But... It might make me feel a bit more confident about things... Somehow. Which how I haven't worked out.

    Hills are great but if you live half way up a mountain and you're trying to stick to paces running on said mountain... I hope I don't encounter hills like that on the day.

    Why would you feel confident if you hadn’t applied the schedule properly? Trust it.

    If you’re forced to run on very hilly ground, try to base run on effort rather than pace (effort usually measured by HR).


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭rooneyjm


    First time following a proper plan so have nothing to compare it to. Enjoying it even if it feels pretty relentless at times! The three 16 milers are looming now.

    Living in a hilly area is not good for the tempo sessions! Trying to find flattish routes is a challenge without going up and back the same road over and over and having the neighbours think I'm (even more) mad.

    It has been pointed out to me on here and by friends that endurance is my weak point. Was half thinking if extending the middle 16 miler to 18. Don't think it's going to have a big effect one way or the other but psychologically it'll do me good I think.

    As Murph says trust the plan. If you have followed it, it will work. There is guidance in the book as to where to add extra miles but it’s not the 16 miler. It might take a few marathon cycles with lots of easy work in between to improve your endurance, it takes time.
    How’s your weight, lots of free speed and endurance if you can loose some of the excess


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Most of you folk are ahead of me in this plan so I can pick your brains.

    This ladder speed session in week 7, the 400,800,1200,1600, etc... all the recs are supposed to be 400, right? Were you able to stick to the same pace or did you do the 4s and 8s a bit faster than the 1200 and 1600? I guess the pace should be the same but that must be tough.

    "Looking forward to it".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭Kissy Lips


    Feeling battered at the moment. Body starting to tighten. My neck and shoulder have locked up. Still getting the sessions done but need to do a bit of maintenance.

    I need a full body sports massage. Something to work out the knots. Any recommendations in South Dublin?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Kissy Lips wrote: »
    Feeling battered at the moment. Body starting to tighten. My neck and shoulder have locked up. Still getting the sessions done but need to do a bit of maintenance.

    I need a full body sports massage. Something to work out the knots. Any recommendations in South Dublin?

    I believe Dubgal is in that business now so might be worth dropping her a PM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    Ok am following the advanced plan 6 weeks to go to Dublin . Am training to the 3 hr paces . In the first 2 to 3 weeks I missed some miles due to holidays and races so am about 40 miles down overall . Have done all my Thurs tempos at marathon pace 650 and my aerobic long runs at 730 pace . My hr has been about 157 for the tempos and I do them on the outer lane of a windy track . Going to change them to a road loop . This week I did strength 4x1.5 on track at 635 pace then ran 6 easy Wed , took Thurs off and did 3 easy Fri . Yesterday I did Ratoath Half . Plan was to run 640 pace . HR was high 167 for first 9 miles and pace was spot on . The next 4 miles were ugly . Lost 70 secs in those 4 miles . Also started cramping in last mile and a half even after having 2 gels during . Finished with 1.28.43 .
    Have serious reservations about the 3 hr plan now . One guy I was talking to while running said if u get to 16 miles in training running 715 you will be spot on for sub 3 . If continuing on the sub 3 path should I adjust the tempo and long run aerobic to 645 and 715 respectively. All thoughts appreciated ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,414 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Ok am following the advanced plan 6 weeks to go to Dublin . Am training to the 3 hr paces . In the first 2 to 3 weeks I missed some miles due to holidays and races so am about 40 miles down overall . Have done all my Thurs tempos at marathon pace 650 and my aerobic long runs at 730 pace . My hr has been about 157 for the tempos and I do them on the outer lane of a windy track . Going to change them to a road loop . This week I did strength 4x1.5 on track at 635 pace then ran 6 easy Wed , took Thurs off and did 3 easy Fri . Yesterday I did Ratoath Half . Plan was to run 640 pace . HR was high 167 for first 9 miles and pace was spot on . The next 4 miles were ugly . Lost 70 secs in those 4 miles . Also started cramping in last mile and a half even after having 2 gels during . Finished with 1.28.43 .
    Have serious reservations about the 3 hr plan now . One guy I was talking to while running said if u get to 16 miles in training running 715 you will be spot on for sub 3 . If continuing on the sub 3 path should I adjust the tempo and long run aerobic to 645 and 715 respectively. All thoughts appreciated ?

    Don’t think you should change anything based on comment from a guy you met out running. Maybe you just had a bad day last week - any anyway you were at HMP, not MP.

    Assuming you had the form to go for sub-3 in the first place (how did you make that decision?) and your training has been sustinable, stick with it.

    157 has been standard tempo HR - how far is that below max?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Don’t think you should change anything based on comment from a guy you met out running. Maybe you just had a bad day last week - any anyway you were at HMP, not MP.

    Assuming you had the form to go for sub-3 in the first place (how did you make that decision?) and your training has been sustinable, stick with it.

    157 has been standard tempo HR - how far is that below max?

    The form to go Sub 3 ... that’s debatable... :) my pb is 3.09.48 ... however I blew up in Boston this year 323 after I was out injured for 5 mths last year ... got back running in November . I have trained consistently since Boston . Ran a 10k in 40 mins in July . Unsure on HR max . Am aged 45 . Going after 3 maybe bit adventurous however i am hitting the paces in training . Happy to share some garmin files when I am home later .id be happier going sub 304 than trying to overreach to hit sub 3 and blowup and run 310 and it to be ugly


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