Red ribbons on trees

recedite

I'll just point out that many of the more densely populated European cities manage to have both tree-lined streets and a good public transport system.


Cutting down the trees is easy and quick, but is it really going to improve "quality of life" for future generations?

lawred2

recedite wrote: »

I'll just point out that many of the more densely populated European cities manage to have both tree-lined streets and a good public transport system.


Cutting down the trees is easy and quick, but is it really going to improve "quality of life" for future generations?

It might if public transport is improved and trees are replanted!

Do you think wide tree lined streets are gifts from God or something? These European cities you list didn't just wake up one morning with wide tree lined streets. They had to build them.

This is what has to happen here.

recedite

lawred2 wrote: »

It might if public transport is improved and trees are replanted!

Do you think wide tree lined streets are gifts from God or something?

Lets face it, they will never be replanted, not after the soil has been tarmacadamed over.
Tree lined streets are not a gift from God, they are the result of good town planning and the efforts of past persons who had foresight (our forebears).


Why must the traffic always increase? In every European country women are producing children at less than the replacement rate.

lawred2

recedite wrote: »

Lets face it, they will never be replanted, not after the soil has been tarmacadamed over.
Tree lined streets are not a gift from God, they are the result of good town planning and the efforts of past persons who had foresight (our forebears).


Why must the traffic always increase? In every European country women are producing children at less than the replacement rate.

Right. So good town planning. Seems that you think that's a thing of the past! We now go with what we got or something like that... Can't apply good town planning from this point forward. That's just something they did in the past

A lot of these European cities were helped by war of course.

prinzeugen

jvan wrote: »

Lets face it, the majority of the road side trees that are due to be removed are getting to the end of their useful lives. This coupled with the fact that they aren't exactly growing in ideal soil conditions means that it would be more beneficial to plant more trees in our urban green spaces and set aside urban sites solely for trees and wildlife. I'd imagine given the choice that the birds would prefer not to live in nests in close proximity to double decker buses either.

??? Trees don't have a lifespan. Yes some may become dangerous and need to come down but are you suggesting we cut down every tree that is 50+ years old because they are no longer useful?

And what are the ideal soil conditions for tree growing? What makes a garden in Dublin unsuitable but a park ideal? And you are aware that its not just birds that live in trees?

Also large trees play a big part in damage limitation during bad weather. The dissipate wind & help the soil retain and absorb water.

Without large trees, streets would turn into windy, dry, dusty concrete wastelands. And areas would become more prone to flooding in wet weather.

prinzeugen

lawred2 wrote: »

Right. So good town planning. Seems that you think that's a thing of the past! We now go with what we got or something like that... Can't apply good town planning from this point forward. That's just something they did in the past

A lot of these European cities were helped by war of course.

It is a thing of the past unfortunately. Todays planners have not learned from the mistakes of the 50s & 60s.

lawred2

prinzeugen wrote: »

It is a thing of the past unfortunately. Todays planners have not learned from the mistakes of the 50s & 60s.

What were these mistakes and what should have been learned from them?

prinzeugen

lawred2 wrote: »

What were these mistakes and what should have been learned from them?

Basically what looks good on paper never works. Take Glasgow, Ballymun and countless other schemes all over Europe such as this -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043879/Good-riddance-Gomorrah-Residents-win-fight-demolish-Italys-notorious-housing-estate.html

Some planners still believe they can create a utopia when all attempts in the past have failed. Road widening has not been a great success either. Look at the NCR in London. Soulless concrete jungles that bred boredom and in-turn crime.

prunudo

prinzeugen wrote: »

??? Trees don't have a lifespan. Yes some may become dangerous and need to come down but are you suggesting we cut down every tree that is 50+ years old because they are no longer useful?

And what are the ideal soil conditions for tree growing? What makes a garden in Dublin unsuitable but a park ideal? And you are aware that its not just birds that live in trees?

Also large trees play a big part in damage limitation during bad weather. The dissipate wind & help the soil retain and absorb water.

Without large trees, streets would turn into windy, dry, dusty concrete wastelands. And areas would become more prone to flooding in wet weather.

Of course trees have a life span. Certain species will grow longer than others. Planting a tree in a metre sq pocket of soil between concrete paths, tarmac roads and wall foundations is not ideal. Throw in all the services and pipeworks that are dug in close proximity to the roots its a wonder they survive at all. Nothing against trees in gardens or open spaces but the majority of our streets are too small to accommodate the type of trees that are currently planted there.

AndrewJRenko

hmmm wrote: »

Felling the trees is required to create wider & safer bus and cycle routes

Or to be more specific, felling the trees is required to create wider and safer bus and cycle routes WHILE maintaining access for all of the private cars driven through there with four empty seats during rush hour.

Give the nimby tree enthusiasts a direct choice between their trees and their cars and see what they choose.

JustAThought

This road already has a double bus lane and cycle paths - the uglification of the nation continues - lead by practices the nazi government would be proud of. CPO'ing elderly residents gardens and hacking down 100+ year old trees in one of the most beautiful roads and street in Dublin a week after a biodiversity crisis was announced. Just sickening.

lawred2

prinzeugen wrote: »

Basically what looks good on paper never works. Take Glasgow, Ballymun and countless other schemes all over Europe such as this -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043879/Good-riddance-Gomorrah-Residents-win-fight-demolish-Italys-notorious-housing-estate.html

Some planners still believe they can create a utopia when all attempts in the past have failed. Road widening has not been a great success either. Look at the NCR in London. Soulless concrete jungles that bred boredom and in-turn crime.

"What looks good on paper never works"

That's quite simply a laughable contribution.

recedite

A lot of the cars (most?) are coming in from the outer suburbs.
Before cutting down any more trees, I'd make a simple rule that any car carrying 4 or more people can use the existing bus lanes.
See how that works. If the bus lanes are still free flowing, reduce it to 3 or more people, and so on.
How often have you seen a taxi with only one, or even zero passengers, cruising around in the bus lanes. Why?

lawred2

recedite wrote: »

A lot of the cars (most?) are coming in from the outer suburbs.
Before cutting down any more trees, I'd make a simple rule that any car carrying 4 or more people can use the existing bus lanes.
See how that works. If the bus lanes are still free flowing, reduce it to 3 or more people, and so on.
How often have you seen a taxi with only one, or even zero passengers, cruising around in the bus lanes. Why?

I think that would be great. The US has many carpool lanes like this.

Would need to be a minimum 3 pax.

lawred2

I'd also add a congestion charge between the canals between 7 and 10 in the morning and 3 and 7 in the evening.

cgcsb

JustAThought wrote: »

The UN declares a climate emergency a month ago. even Irelands dud government declares a biodiversity emergency and not two weeks later they want to cut 800 trees in Shankhill (is that old forest in Irish) and hundreds of mature trees that took decades to grow in the southside for a temporary bus lane to be possibly replaced with pencil thin saplings in some areas only.

The slumification of our country continues.

Our children will not know what a mature tree looks like nor why were were so apothetic in the destruction of ourplanet.

Meanwhile diesel guzzling buses gain 5 minutes speed for government apathy & commercial greed.

Yet in third world slums & the likes of Korea and China where they have decimated their environment theyhave the army and volunteers out planting milluons of trees for future generations & to try and reverse the damage they have done.

You couldn't make it up.

Knacker Ireland -greedfirst.

My favourite aspect of this post is that you didn't over-react at all, and that's the main thing.

cgcsb

strandroad wrote: »

Don't believe everything you see on social media... Ribbon wrappers were questioned in some areas and admitted that they are marking all trees along the improved routes and also growing in affected gardens without actually validating that they are marked to be removed. It's very much like Dunville Avenues Berlin Wall, exaggeration clearly works.

That's the crux of it, they are actually just ribboning all the trees, regardless of which ones are for the chop. Even in parts where the road is already wide enough, they have their ribbons up.

cgcsb

lawred2 wrote: »

Trees can be replanted.. as nimby arguments go this is by up there as one of the weakest

The residents should be told, ok, no tree cutting, we'll take away the car lanes instead. Await reaction.

cgcsb

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

How would widening roads help in this location? I commute through this route and am somewhat dismayed by how long it takes sometimes, and that's entirely due to the number of junctions there are.

This is an example of the location. The traffic at this spot is due to that junction. There is a dedicated bus lane on inbound traffic (which is all that is necessary). The trees in this location currently all have red ribbons on them. If there is an extra lane placed here it will not improve the situation at all as the delays are caused by that intersection.

Let's not get into the territory of "we need a children's hospital, therefore criticism be damned".

The trees with the ribbons on them aren't actually for the chop though. The ribbons are the work of opposition politicians.

cgcsb

prinzeugen wrote: »

Basically what looks good on paper never works. Take Glasgow, Ballymun and countless other schemes all over Europe such as this -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043879/Good-riddance-Gomorrah-Residents-win-fight-demolish-Italys-notorious-housing-estate.html

Some planners still believe they can create a utopia when all attempts in the past have failed. Road widening has not been a great success either. Look at the NCR in London. Soulless concrete jungles that bred boredom and in-turn crime.

You are conflating gratuitous road widening of the UK in the 60s with road widening that is specifically to accommodate sustainable modes of transport.

cgcsb

recedite wrote: »

A lot of the cars (most?) are coming in from the outer suburbs.
Before cutting down any more trees, I'd make a simple rule that any car carrying 4 or more people can use the existing bus lanes.
See how that works. If the bus lanes are still free flowing, reduce it to 3 or more people, and so on.
How often have you seen a taxi with only one, or even zero passengers, cruising around in the bus lanes. Why?

Are you going to enforce that?

Skatedude

Del2005 wrote: »

We can always plant more trees. We can't keep pushing Dublin out, which removes more land from nature(ish), and we need proper public transport so people have a viable alternative to the car but our roads aren't big enough to accommodate buses. So we either remove a few trees and encourage public transport or like the metro let a vocal minority destroy the benefit for many.

But yeah we'll end up saving a few trees by creating loads of pollution elsewhere.

Won't work, they can knock down every tree in the city and add another thousand buses, but they still assume we all only work mon to fri in the city centre , many,many thousands still need to get to work when public transport doesn't run.

recedite

cgcsb wrote: »

Are you going to enforce that?

What, me personally? No.
I'm just making a sensible suggestion.
Then I expect to sit back and watch "the powers that be" continue on their own destructive way.

cgcsb

recedite wrote: »

What, me personally? No.
I'm just making a sensible suggestion.
Then I expect to sit back and watch "the powers that be" continue on their own destructive way.

It was a rhetorical question. There is no practical way to enforce it. It's a dull yankee concept anyway and it would mean cars slowing down buses.

prinzeugen

cgcsb wrote: »

You are conflating gratuitous road widening of the UK in the 60s with road widening that is specifically to accommodate sustainable modes of transport.

The result is the same though. Concrete jungles with masses of streetlights rather than trees.

lawred2 wrote: »

"What looks good on paper never works"

That's quite simply a laughable contribution.

What is laughable about it? Its fact. If they worked why are the majority of them now demolished?

recedite

cgcsb wrote: »

It was a rhetorical question. There is no practical way to enforce it. It's a dull yankee concept anyway and it would mean cars slowing down buses.

How would it not be enforceable?
If you drive in a bus lane, sooner or later you will be pulled over by a Garda, possibly the one in an unmarked car driving behind you.
The 3 passengers would be your free pass. Its not exactly rocket science.

AndrewJRenko

recedite wrote: »

How would it not be enforceable?
If you drive in a bus lane, sooner or later you will be pulled over by a Garda, possibly the one in an unmarked car driving behind you.
The 3 passengers would be your free pass. Its not exactly rocket science.

Head down Camden St, Wexford St, Aungier St and George's St any day during rush hour and see how well existing legislation for keeping bus lanes clear is enforced.

recedite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Head down Camden St, Wexford St, Aungier St and George's St any day during rush hour and see how well existing legislation for keeping bus lanes clear is enforced.

But sure the Gardai have issued thousands of genuine tickets for that.... oh wait.

AndrewJRenko

recedite wrote: »

But sure the Gardai have issued thousands of genuine tickets for that.... oh wait.

They really haven't. Levels of enforcement are negligible. Garda cars drive past trucks and vans delivering all the time.

recedite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They really haven't. Levels of enforcement are negligible. Garda cars drive past trucks and vans delivering all the time.

I'm not totally familiar with the road, but I know its a busy city centre shopping street. And shops gotta get stocked somehow.
Also when there are lots of side lanes and alleys, and some guy is driving with his indicator on, who's to say whether he is turning off the main road or not?
Lots of chancers will do that for a while before their actual turn.


Your typical bus corridor is more like a long radial route in from the suburbs. Its a more straightforward situation. Either you are in a vehicle that is legal in that lane, or you are not.