Red ribbons on trees

Del2005

kowloon wrote: »

Problem is the trees being planted are Christmas trees, lines upon lines of them.

That's a different problem, but a forest of them is better than a housing estate.

lawred2

Del2005 wrote: »

That's a different problem, but a forest of them is better than a housing estate.

Well actually some of those spruce forests are like a biological wasteland

prunudo

Del2005 wrote: »

Dedicated cycle lanes, wider footpaths, bus lanes and restricted car flow. But yes its the trees that they want to save.

A lot of people seem to miss this point. Bus connects is far more than better bus lanes. A bit like with Metrolink the NTA need to employ better pr people.
Instead of the media reporting on the positive effects of these large public transport projects we get reports with loose facts about people tying ribbons around trees and 4yr Luas closures. All for the benefit of some connected residents who have no consideration for the rest of the public who must pass their houses to get to work.

JustAThought

The UN declares a climate emergency a month ago. even Irelands dud government declares a biodiversity emergency and not two weeks later they want to cut 800 trees in Shankhill (is that old forest in Irish) and hundreds of mature trees that took decades to grow in the southside for a temporary bus lane to be possibly replaced with pencil thin saplings in some areas only.

The slumification of our country continues.

Our children will not know what a mature tree looks like nor why were were so apothetic in the destruction of ourplanet.

Meanwhile diesel guzzling buses gain 5 minutes speed for government apathy & commercial greed.

Yet in third world slums & the likes of Korea and China where they have decimated their environment theyhave the army and volunteers out planting milluons of trees for future generations & to try and reverse the damage they have done.

You couldn't make it up.

Knacker Ireland -greedfirst.

super_furry

I mean you can be against the concept of the Bus Connects corridor and the specifics of the plan but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think that the 'biodiversity emergency' is the angle to take. The whole purpose of the plan is to convince people to switch from cars to buses for their commute.

JustAThought

You missed the part where our wildlife is being mulched for spurious 'health & safety' excuses and many of our everyday nesting birds are on red extinction lists, where 47 Irish environmental agencies got together to warn of yhe imminent extinction of most species of Irish bees leading to a pollination and biodiversity crisis.

Thrashssacre

JustAThought wrote: »

The UN declares a climate emergency a month ago. even Irelands dud government declares a biodiversity emergency and not two weeks later they want to cut 800 trees in Shankhill (is that old forest in Irish) and hundreds of mature trees that took decades to grow in the southside for a temporary bus lane to be possibly replaced with pencil thin saplings in some areas only.

The slumification of our country continues.

Our children will not know what a mature tree looks like nor why were were so apothetic in the destruction of ourplanet.

Meanwhile diesel guzzling buses gain 5 minutes speed for government apathy & commercial greed.

Yet in third world slums & the likes of Korea and China where they have decimated their environment theyhave the army and volunteers out planting milluons of trees for future generations & to try and reverse the damage they have done.

You couldn't make it up.

Knacker Ireland -greedfirst.

You mean the diesel guzzling busses that pollute less then Cars and which Dublin bus have committed to buying no more of (only hybrids or fully electric now)

There’s nothing greedy about wanting to make commutes of less then 20kms a bit less hellish and letting workers spend a bit more time with their families

The outrage culture in this day and age is ridiculous.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Thrashssacre wrote: »

You mean the diesel guzzling busses that pollute less then Cars and which Dublin bus have committed to buying no more of (only hybrids or fully electric now)

There’s nothing greedy about wanting to make commutes of less then 20kms a bit less hellish and letting works spend a bit more time with their families

The outrage culture in this day and age is ridiculous.

In the circumstances that losing trees actually made a substantial benefit to public transport there is a debate to be had. In the particular location I'm talking about I fail to see how public transport could really benefit in any way. Another poster says that it's not for public transport, but bike lanes. While bike lanes are all well and good, there would probably be better routes to be had for such endeavours.

Dyr

Dublin already has bus lanes, poorly enforced ones and post bus connects we will still have overcrowded buses. People pick car ownership because they are the best overall option for transport (not just work commutes) our buses are **** and still will be even if bus connects goes ahead.

Dublins problem is rampant overpopulation, a moratorium on the international "student" fiddle would do more for this city and its transport systems than chopping down trees to build bike lanes.

Thrashssacre

Bambi wrote: »

Dublin already has bus lanes, poorly enforced ones and post bus connects we will still have overcrowded buses. People pick car ownership because they are the best overall option for transport (not just work commutes) our buses are **** and still will be even if bus connects goes ahead.

Dublins problem is rampant overpopulation, a moratorium on the international "student" fiddle would do more for this city and its transport systems than chopping down trees to build bike lanes.

Dublin has a world class bus network and after bus connect they’ll be more busses and the routes will be improved for interchanging and opening up new journeys, there’s a lot of infrastructure improvements to go with the route redesigns (which admittedly aren’t to be finished until afterwards)

This is a worthwhile plan even if the trees have to go.

strandroad

Bambi wrote: »

Dublins problem is rampant overpopulation, a moratorium on the international "student" fiddle would do more for this city and its transport systems than chopping down trees to build bike lanes.

Overpopulation? Dublin's population is very low for its physical area. The problem is the lack of infrastructure to serve the city. We have 1960s transport here still.

prunudo

Lets face it, the majority of the road side trees that are due to be removed are getting to the end of their useful lives. This coupled with the fact that they aren't exactly growing in ideal soil conditions means that it would be more beneficial to plant more trees in our urban green spaces and set aside urban sites solely for trees and wildlife. I'd imagine given the choice that the birds would prefer not to live in nests in close proximity to double decker buses either.

strandroad

JustAThought wrote: »

even Irelands dud government declares a biodiversity emergency and not two weeks later they want to cut 800 trees in Shankhill (is that old forest in Irish) and hundreds of mature trees that took decades to grow in the southside for a temporary bus lane to be possibly replaced with pencil thin saplings in some areas only.

Don't believe everything you see on social media... Ribbon wrappers were questioned in some areas and admitted that they are marking all trees along the improved routes and also growing in affected gardens without actually validating that they are marked to be removed. It's very much like Dunville Avenues Berlin Wall, exaggeration clearly works.

lawred2

Trees can be replanted.. as nimby arguments go this is by up there as one of the weakest

OneOfThem Stumbled

lawred2 wrote: »

Trees can be replanted.. as nimby arguments go this is by up there as one of the weakest

How will felling trees in that location help with traffic? I'm just looking for a logical answer.

There's also plans for a flyover in relation to the level crossing on Merrion road. Now that would have an obvious benefit to congestion because it would eliminate a junction. I believe there's some local objection to that, but as far as I can see, the impact would be relatively light while being greatly beneficial to the public interest.

I've also heard that there could never be a cycle route along the Dublin coast because of ecological concerns, but that sounds like bullsh*t councilor speak.

I think some joined up thinking is required here. A balanced approach *can* be taken. Saying that the trees don't matter just because of NIMBYism doesn't wash.

lawred2

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

How will felling trees in that location help with traffic? I'm just looking for a logical answer.

There's also plans for a flyover in relation to the level crossing on Merrion road. Now that would have an obvious benefit to congestion because it would eliminate a junction. I believe there's some local objection to that, but as far as I can see, the impact would be relatively light while being greatly beneficial to the public interest.

I've also heard that there could never be a cycle route along the Dublin coast because of ecological concerns, but that sounds like bullsh*t councilor speak.

I think some joined up thinking is required here. A balanced approach *can* be taken. Saying that the trees don't matter just because of NIMBYism doesn't wash.

I'm working on the presumption that felling trees needs to happen to widen roads... Or to allow for the construction of segregated pedestrian or cycle facilities.

hmmm

Felling the trees is required to create wider & safer bus and cycle routes, and multiple more replacement trees will be planted. The NIMBYs are using this as an excuse - let's give them an option to save the trees by allowing more of the road to be used for public transport & see what they have to say.

OneOfThem Stumbled

hmmm wrote: »

Felling the trees is required to create wider & safer bus and cycle routes, and multiple more replacement trees will be planted. The NIMBYs are using this as an excuse - let's give them an option to save the trees by allowing more of the road to be used for public transport & see what they have to say.

How would widening roads help in this location? I commute through this route and am somewhat dismayed by how long it takes sometimes, and that's entirely due to the number of junctions there are.

This is an example of the location. The traffic at this spot is due to that junction. There is a dedicated bus lane on inbound traffic (which is all that is necessary). The trees in this location currently all have red ribbons on them. If there is an extra lane placed here it will not improve the situation at all as the delays are caused by that intersection.

Let's not get into the territory of "we need a children's hospital, therefore criticism be damned".

hmmm

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

How would widening roads help in this location? I commute through this route and am somewhat dismayed by how long it takes sometimes, and that's entirely due to the number of junctions there are.

Take it up with the NTA, it's a public consultation.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Dublins problem is rampant overpopulation

Dublin is one of the smallest and least dense European capital cities. To say that Dublin is overpopulated hardly needs ridiculing -- but just to register this anyway, it is totally ridiculous.

In fact, you go on to make an even more puerile suggestion, that we should get rid of students as a means of eradicating...congestion? Students, whether from inside or outside the EU, do not typically drive in Dublin City. And they contribute enormously to the economic activity of the city, particularly the night-time economy.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

There is a dedicated bus lane on inbound traffic (which is all that is necessary).

Strictly speaking, no bus lane is necessary; this is about incentivising public transport and other clean transit alternatives to cars. Why is only an inbound bus-lane desirable? The people who travel into town for work and events usually return to the same point-of-origin at evening, do they not?

Dyr

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dublin is one of the smallest and least dense European capital cities. To say that Dublin is overpopulated hardly needs ridiculing -- but just to register this anyway, it is totally ridiculous.

Throw up the stats for density in European cities there, good man.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Throw up the stats for density in European cities there, good man.

Dublin is a high-density European city within the canals, i.e within walking distance to the CBD. And that's great, but that's a fraction of the city's population.

To declare that Dublin is a dense city in any realistic sense is (and I hate broad terms like this, but it's appropriate here) ludicrous. As European capitals go, we are outstandingly flat, and continue to sprawl. This is a tiny capital, very sparsely populated in terms of density.

Can you elaborate on your comments about students being a burden towards congestion?

lawred2

Make claim without evidence

Claim gets ridiculed

Claimant seeks evidence to disprove their claim

That's not really how it works.

Dyr

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dublin is a high-density European city within the canals, i.e within walking distance to the CBD. And that's great, but that's a fraction of the city's population.

To declare that Dublin is a dense city in any realistic sense is (and I hate broad terms like this, but it's appropriate here) ludicrous. As European capitals go, we are outstandingly flat, and continue to sprawl. This is a tiny capital, very sparsely populated in terms of density.

Can you elaborate on your comments about students being a burden towards congestion?

Little hesitant there for someone who was so strident

Here I'll do it for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_proper_by_population_density

Dublin city is measured as 40 + square miles but, by all means, keep scuttering on about sprawl and flatness to hide your blushes

lawred2

Bambi wrote: »

Little hesitant there for someone who was so strident

Here I'll do it for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_proper_by_population_density

Dublin city is measured as 40 + square miles but, by all means, keep scuttering on about sprawl and flatness to hide your blushes

40 square km is quite small

8km * 5km is 40 sqkm... Would that just be the area between the canals?

Apologies... I see you said sq miles..

aloyisious

super_furry wrote: »

They're being wrapped around trees that are along the new Bus Connects routes and that may or may not be cut down.

That might explain the ribbons on the trees in a private estate in Shankill Village, Co Dublin. The village is on the master plan for a quality bus corridor even though it has a roundabout, a narrow 2-lane street and a humpback bridge over the old Harcourt Line railway route.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Little hesitant there for someone who was so strident

Here I'll do it for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_proper_by_population_density

Dublin city is measured as 40 + square miles but, by all means, keep scuttering on about sprawl and flatness to hide your blushes

Ehh, yeah, you're totally right dude, Dublin is a densely packed city *

*within the canals.

Now that we have established that you are 100% and definitely correct about that, and certainly not deluded; would you like to elaborate on your statement about getting rid of students?

OneOfThem Stumbled

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Strictly speaking, no bus lane is necessary; this is about incentivising public transport and other clean transit alternatives to cars. Why is only an inbound bus-lane desirable? The people who travel into town for work and events usually return to the same point-of-origin at evening, do they not?

As someone who uses this route, rush hour traffic inbound is a much more significant issue than outbound in my experience. But closing off all traffic from Simmonscourt and Sandymount avenue to Merrion avenue would make more impact than any road widening ever could. However, doing that would throw up its own problems.

From that location, to the American embassy there's a total of seven traffic lights. Seven! That's only 3/4 of a kilometre. What's more, those traffic lights can take ages to change because of the volume of traffic coming into Ballsbridge. I'm not sure what exactly can be done to solve that problem, but scorched earth is unlikely to be the answer.

If all the trees in that area come down, the appearance of the area will be significantly degraded (which in itself is an asset, particularly an area that is quite a focus for international events and tourism, that particular spot on Google Maps is adjacent to two large hotels). That's quite a significant cost - and I can't really see that cost (never mind the actual monetary cost) being worth it.

hmmm

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

That's quite a significant cost - and I can't really see that cost (never mind the actual monetary cost) being worth it.

Something has to give here. Either we build better public transport for all the young families who have to buy in the outer suburbs, or we build higher density in the city - both of which are opposed by the wealthy residents of the inner suburbs.

This "urban village" crap has to stop. Go live in a proper village in the countryside if you want quiet streets and cute little bungalows surrounded by acres of greens spaces, there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who are being forced to commute for hours every day because of the selfishness of people in these areas.

OneOfThem Stumbled

hmmm wrote: »

Something has to give here. Either we build better public transport for all the young families who have to buy in the outer suburbs, or we build higher density in the city - both of which are opposed by the wealthy residents of the inner suburbs.

This "urban village" crap has to stop. Go live in a proper village in the countryside if you want quiet streets and cute little bungalows surrounded by acres of greens spaces, there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who are being forced to commute for hours every day because of the selfishness of people in these areas.

We need a children's hospital. Stop complaining about the location already.