Everest

Blaizes

Search with Hanna also mentioned in Himalayan times

https://www.thehimalayantimes.com

Nine climbers, led by mountaineer Noel Hanna, who was part of Mr Lawless's original climbing group, will begin a search operation later this evening, according to reports in the Himalayan Times

More lives risked.

Blaizes

pc7 wrote: »

Really interesting reading about Noel Hanna http://noelhanna.com/

Yes, he sounds like some powerhouse, has even reached k2 which only something like over 300 people have ever done. Fascinating to read all this stuff.

tuxy

Tomw86 wrote: »

Was thinking the same, if he knows where it is, he must think its recoverable.

I would imagine the Sherpas will be getting a chunk of the money raised so far. To not give them that would be shocking by the organisers of the GoFundMe page, especially if successful.

The Sherpas may get more money than a standard summit but it is the company that organises this recovery who stand to gain the most money.
I have heard they are also using Seven Summit Treks for this but can't confirm if it's true.
With most experienced climbers calling recovery missions madness(this includes Irish climber Pat Falvey), should someone with an emotional connection be involved at all at this stage?

pc7

Blaizes wrote: »

Yes, he sounds like some powerhouse, has even reached k2 which only something like over 300 people have ever done. Fascinating to read all this stuff.

And his wife is a serious climber too.

pc7

This quote from the article “The team, equipped with search and recovery equipment, will try its best to recover Lawless’s body from the Mt Everest death zone,” he said.

Makes me think it might be a token effort for the family to say they tried? It will be some feat if they can bring the body down and all of them safely, it really seems an impossible task, from various readings.

jasper100

pc7 wrote: »

This quote from the article “The team, equipped with search and recovery equipment, will try its best to recover Lawless’s body from the Mt Everest death zone,” he said.

Makes me think it might be a token effort for the family to say they tried? It will be some feat if they can bring the body down and all of them safely, it really seems an impossible task, from various readings.

That could well be what this is, unless he is along the trail and easily recoverable, which seems unlikely as the other climbers would have found his location.

I was reading that at the start of the season Sherpas toss the bodies over the side to clean up the route not to be spoiling the views for the next generation of holidaymakers.

Disgusting stuff.

josip

jasper100 wrote: »

That could well be what this is, unless he is along the trail and easily recoverable, which seems unlikely as the other climbers would have found his location.

I was reading that at the start of the season Sherpas toss the bodies over the side to clean up the route not to be spoiling the views for the next generation of holidaymakers.

Disgusting stuff.

Have you got a link for where you read that Jasper?
The Sherpas are a very respectful people, including to the mountain itself.
Unless a body was blocking the trail, I doubt it would be disturbed.
Green boots was left where he was for years.

jam_mac_jam

josip wrote: »

Have you got a link for where you read that Jasper?
The Sherpas are a very respectful people, including to the mountain itself.
Unless a body was blocking the trail, I doubt it would be disturbed.
Green boots was left where he was for years.

They can't bring the bodies down so some would say its more respectful to move them away where they cannot be seen as a form of burial. Many have been there for years.

Crusty Jocks

jasper100 wrote: »

That could well be what this is, unless he is along the trail and easily recoverable, which seems unlikely as the other climbers would have found his location.

I was reading that at the start of the season Sherpas toss the bodies over the side to clean up the route not to be spoiling the views for the next generation of holidaymakers.

Disgusting stuff.

I don't know if it's to clean up and not spoil the view for the next group of climbers.

I've read the bodies are thrown over sides at the request of families so they don't become voyeuristic landmarks like green boots.

jam_mac_jam

Crusty Jocks wrote: »

I don't know if it's to clean up and not spoil the view for the next group of climbers.

I've read the bodies are thrown over sides at the request of families so they don't become voyeuristic landmarks like green boots.

Exactly, there is a lot of exaggeration going on about this subject.

pc7

Its in this one To avoid this, remains are usually “committed” to the mountain – that is, they are respectfully pushed into a crevasse or off a steep slope, out of sight.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151008-the-graveyard-in-the-clouds-everests-200-dead-bodies

Lillyfae

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Just...wow.
Very interesting indeed.
I might have nightmares after reading that.

I felt exactly the same. WTF would possess people??

redmgar

Deleted User wrote: »

firstly, no would be climber is going to be put off by the disapproval of a message board poster.

Literally my point. If no one is going to be put off doing it from a message board what's the point in repeatedly calling the climbers selfish?

Deleted User wrote: »

secondly, nobody is under an onus to cheerlead any would be climber.

? I never said there was an onus to cheerlead.

Deleted User wrote: »

thirdly, criticism is not trolling. your own tack on this thread is to criticise others. are you trolling?

Thanks for taking the time to research my previous post history, I would reciprocate, only I can't be bothered.

Deleted User wrote: »

fourthly, a message board post does not have to benefit anyone

It would be nice if it did though.

screamer

I certainly hope no one else loses their life out looking for a frozen body. I don’t know how grief can be relieved with more deaths, and I’m very glad that I didn’t donate to fund this madness. I think everyone’s life is important, more important than a body for sure.

Part of the licenses to climb Everest should state, you die there you stay there. No rescues, you’ll be left on the mountain. Might make the thrill seekers a bit more cognizant of the real risks they are facing.

Muahahaha

jasper100 wrote: »

Camp 4 is a significant challenge in itself. I would expect there is a tourist market to get that far.

At the moment its not an option, camp 4 is only open to people who have paid for a summit attempt AFAIK.

Not sure how far tourists can get at the moment, but allowing access to different points and building a more inclusive and sustainable model is the way to go.

They shut the beach in Thailand because tourists destroyed it. The same is happening on Everest.

Running tourist trips to Camp Four would result in even more deaths on Everest. This is because the most dangerous part of the entire mountain lies not at the top but between Base Camp and Camp 1. Its called the Khumbu Icefall and it involves traversing a glacier that is constantly moving and melting during the sunny climbing season. Within the glacier are deep crevasses and large seracs, which are basically huge unstable ice towers that can (and do) collapse at any time.

The single most deadliest day on Everest happened in the Khumbu Icefall when a single ice serac collapsed on top of 16 Sherpas. All 16 of them lost their lives. There has been more lives lost within the Khumbu Icefall than any other part of the mountain, even in the death zone past 8,000m.

jam_mac_jam

The licences should also require some advanced level of experience. A set number of mountains that have been done in the last, experience at altitude. It’s not going to happen as Nepal makes too much money from the licences, and really can you blame them. Its an incredibly poor country and maybe the onus is on the people doing it to learn as much as possible about the risks before they go there.

gctest50

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The licences should also require some advanced level of experience.........

Why does everything have to turned into a creche ?

Lillyfae

gctest50 wrote: »

Why does everything have to turned into a creche ?

Because people are acting like children.

Want to go to Everest without paying? Pretend you're doing it for charity.

Want to go to Everest without training? Pay a f***load of money and you'll be catered for.

Die up there? Fundraising effort to pay for 8 Sherpas to dig you out and carry you down, and any remaining funds will ensure your family don't financially bear your loss.

iamwhoiam

gctest50 wrote: »

Why does everything have to turned into a creche ?

So the mountain is not littered with dead bodies and rubbish .

josip

gctest50 wrote: »

Why does everything have to turned into a creche ?

When things start to go wrong for a customer high up (let's not confuse them with mountaineers), they're endangering their Sherpa guide.
Things are less likely to go wrong if you have experience.

tuxy

Paying poor people to undertake dangerous tasks doesn't sit well with everyone.

I could pay two homeless people to fight each other but should I?

pc7

Just to note, I'm being misquoted due to missing ' I didn't quote about camp 4, I said base camp/camp 1, thanks.

jasper100 wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by pc7 View Post

Camp 4 is a significant challenge in itself. I would expect there is a tourist market to get that far.

gctest50

josip wrote: »

...they're endangering their Sherpa guide..

Any good guide will know when walk away and leave them die

tuxy

gctest50 wrote: »

Any good guide will know when walk away and leave them die

But he is already dead and there are currently 9 sherpas looking for a frozen body in an extremely dangerous location.....

gctest50

Lillyfae wrote: »

.........

Die up there? Fundraising effort to pay for 8 Sherpas to dig you out and carry you down, and any remaining funds will ensure your family don't financially bear your loss.

The fundraisers are wrong there, it's like people that put up gigantic memorials on the side of the road with big carved angels n things

Grayson

Lillyfae wrote: »

I felt exactly the same. WTF would possess people??

I've been at over 6000m. It's not as high or as dangerous as everest (8,848m) but the experience was amazing. I'd recommend it to anyone that was healthy.

Part of me sees a mountain like everest as a challenge and something amazing to do. the other part of me sees it as dangerous and reckless. And it can be both.

Grayson

Crusty Jocks wrote: »

Thought this was a very good (albeit long) read. Some of the video and images included grim enough. story is a lot more tragic than affluent westerners chasing some kind of badge of honour.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/18/sports/everest-deaths.html

That was an amazing read. Thanks.

jasper100

josip wrote: »

Have you got a link for where you read that Jasper?
The Sherpas are a very respectful people, including to the mountain itself.
Unless a body was blocking the trail, I doubt it would be disturbed.
Green boots was left where he was for years.

Of course. New York Times

Most of the bodies are far out of sight. Some have been moved, dumped over cliffs or into crevasses at the behest of families bothered that their loved ones were someone else’s landmark or at the direction of Nepali officials who worry that the sight of dead bodies hinders the country’s tourist trade.

jasper100

redmgar wrote: »

Literally my point. If no one is going to be put off doing it from a message board what's the point in repeatedly calling the climbers selfish?

? I never said there was an onus to cheerlead.

Thanks for taking the time to research my previous post history, I would reciprocate, only I can't be bothered.

It would be nice if it did though.

Are you going to enlighten us as to the extensive mountaineering experience you claimed Seamus had, or you just going to skip that bit?