The National No Excuses Campaign

cannotlogin

New campaign launched today. I can't imbed the video but it's in the article below.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Do we really need a video to tell us how to behave? Surely, the very few that need to understand the message, are those least likely to pay any attention to it. Very mixed thoughts on it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/justice-minister-launches-no-excuses-campaign-highlighting-sexual-harassment-attitudes-922936.html

James Brown

Anyone getting up to harassment know what they are doing. No harm with the campaign I suppose, but maybe missed the wave on this one?

idle

One of the few ads on TV at the moment that doesn’t have a diverse cast

pinkyeye

I found it a bit weird, it goes from slightly creepy behaviour to actual sexual assault in a matter of minutes and seems to imply that they're all as bad as each other.

Yeah, a bit freaky.

Your Face

Video is below.

I think its a good campaign.

Force Carrier

I'd like to help with the campaign but this is a really busy time of the year at work.

KikiLaRue

I liken these campaigns to drink driving campaigns.

Almost all of us already know it’s wrong and very few of us do it, but it’s a message worth reinforcing regularly because it’s still a problem.

The main benefit is a very slow and gradual cultural change as opposed to having a direct impact on any one person’s decision-making process.

is_that_so

None of that resonated with me at all - some very odd scenarios.

Vincent Vega

Your Face wrote: »

Video is below.

I think its a good campaign.

Also a second vid with some of the common excuses to the individual incidents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9_MheuRxPM

KikiLaRue

is_that_so wrote: »

None of that resonated with me at all - some very odd scenarios.

I’ve had the first situation in the bar happen more times than I could count. And any Dublin taxi driver will tell you horror stories like that last scene.

biko

metoo

mad muffin

New tricks

Junkyard Tom

There are a lot of fucking cunts in the world - if that video helps someone to say 'get your fucking hands off me' then good.

odyssey06

Nobody seems to have told the judges ... when it comes to sentencing of someone actually convicted of an offence they find every excuse under the sun to be lenient.

But hey easier to make a video.

is_that_so

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’ve had the first situation in the bar happen more times than I could count. And any Dublin taxi driver will tell you horror stories like that last scene.

Last one is really not at all clear. The ads for road safety work because they are precisely focused. This is just a random selection of situations with no clear and consistent message. Single situation ads would be a whole lot better. This is a kitchen sink effort.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

None of that resonated with me at all - some very odd scenarios.

it will have resonated with a lot of women. One-third of irish women between the ages of 18 and 34 have experienced an unwanted sexual advance in the last 12 months.

Not sure what the statistic on men is, but when I was going to school there was some mad craze to pull down a guy's trousers in front of others for the lolz. Incredibly odd, looking back.

Hal3000

cannotlogin wrote: »

New campaign launched today. I can't imbed the video but it's in the article below.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Do we really need a video to tell us how to behave? Surely, the very few that need to understand the message, are those least likely to pay any attention to it. Very mixed thoughts on it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/justice-minister-launches-no-excuses-campaign-highlighting-sexual-harassment-attitudes-922936.html

Unfortunately we do need people to tell us how to behave. We've become a race of disgusting half wits and we're not getting any smarter.

odyssey06

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it will have resonated with a lot of women. One-third of irish women between the ages of 18 and 34 have experienced an unwanted sexual advance in the last 12 months.

Is that an illegal act? What specific offence applies?

is_that_so

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it will have resonated with a lot of women. One-third of irish women between the ages of 18 and 34 have experienced an unwanted sexual advance in the last 12 months.

Not sure what the statistic on men is, but when I was going to school there was some mad craze to pull down a guy's trousers in front of others for the lolz. Incredibly odd, looking back.

Yeah but the target seems to be poor behaviour by men so the ad kind of misses.

JupiterKid

It’s a good advert, in that it makes the viewer pause for thought.

Of all the scenarios depicted, I’d say the ones in the bar and the locker room constitute clear harassment. The others...well, it’s a pretty grey area, isn’t it?

And the last one where the guy is supposedly helping the very intoxicated young woman up off the ground is a tad menacing and unsettling. Is he really going to get her into a taxi to take her home or will he assault her?

I am going to class for yoga improvers at the moment and the (male) teacher has touched me and others to get us into the correct poses. Is he actually harassing us? I would like to think not.

KikiLaRue

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is that an illegal act? What specific offence applies?

It’s not illegal but it’s ****ty. What’s wrong with a campaign discouraging ****ty behaviour?

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is that an illegal act? What specific offence applies?

Assault.

People have been convicted for assault for a lot less, and I'd have thought this couldn't be a clearer example.

Mad_maxx

RTE are really really enthusiastic about these kind of stories - initiatives

is_that_so

JupiterKid wrote: »

It’s a good advert, in that it makes the viewer pause for thought.

Of all the scenarios depicted, I’d say the ones in the bar and the locker room constitute clear harassment. The others...well, it’s a pretty grey area, isn’t it?

And the last one where the guy is supposedly helping the very intoxicated young woman up off the ground is a tad menacing and unsettling. Is he really going to get her into a taxi to take her home or will he assault her?

Actually I had to stop and think what it was supposed to be about. Confused was my thought especially as it kicked off with an office situation.

That's the problem with the last one. She was so drunk she needed to be lifted off the ground anyway.

mzungu

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah but the target seems to be poor behaviour by men so the ad kind of misses.

The first scenario is a woman getting touchy with a co-worker so it's not aimed only at men.

I see no issue with the ad campaign.

pinkyeye

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Assault.

People have been convicted for assault for a lot less, and I'd have thought this couldn't be a clearer example.

An unwanted sexual advance is not assault??

is_that_so

mzungu wrote: »

The first scenario is a woman getting touchy with a co-worker so it's not aimed only at men.

I see no issue with the ad campaign.

It's the only one that's not and I've never seen that scenario played out like that ever. It's just got too many in it. Make multiple ads but focus them. As someone said earlier road traffic ads are a good example.

odyssey06

KikiLaRue wrote: »

It’s not illegal but it’s ****ty. What’s wrong with a campaign discouraging ****ty behaviour?

Id rather a campaign to secure convictions against the people who have committed an actual offence and put them off the streets behind bars for a long time.
I think that will have a massive effect on both *****ty behaviour and illegal behaviour. And is more reliable than a video. Predators dont give two hoots about a video, they'll laugh at it.

odyssey06

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Assault.

People have been convicted for assault for a lot less, and I'd have thought this couldn't be a clearer example.

Every action profiled in the video is a criminal offence?

Hal3000

odyssey06 wrote: »

Id rather a campaign to secure convictions against the people who have committed an actual offence and put them off the streets behind bars for a long time.
I think that will have a massive effect on both *****ty behaviour and illegal behaviour. And is more reliable than a video. Predators dont give two hoots about a video, they'll laugh at it.

Yeah how about a campaign to stop letting people back out after pathetic sentences ?

KikiLaRue

odyssey06 wrote: »

Id rather a campaign to secure convictions against the people who have committed an actual offence and put them off the streets behind bars for a long time.
I think that will have a massive effect on both *****ty behaviour and illegal behaviour. And is more reliable than a video. Predators dont give two hoots about a video, they'll laugh at it.

Why does it have to be one of the other?

There has been enormous cultural change in how Ireland views sex in the last 30-40 years and how it’s talked about in the media is a huge part of that.

odyssey06

Hal3000 wrote: »

Yeah how about a campaign to stop letting people back out after pathetic sentences ?

That would require actual action by the state. They dont do actions they do PR.

mfceiling

What about one to "remind" scrotes not to rob, beat, intimidate or vandalise.

Then when the solicitor stands up in court and says "even though x has 216 previous convictions he is sorry and is trying to get his life back on track" the judge can say...."you saw the video...15 years in the joy".

TheDiceMan2020

Where's the diversity? Or are sexual offences strictly the preserve of white Irish urbanites?

odyssey06

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Why does it have to be one of the other?

There has been enormous cultural change in how Ireland views sex in the last 30-40 years and how it’s talked about in the media is a huge part of that.

It only ever seems to be the one and never the other. Garda watching rapists who are released in case they immediately reoffend... video aint gonna do a damn thing about predators.
This pr nonsense makes it seem like government is doing something when reality is the opposite.

pinkyeye

pinkyeye wrote: »

An unwanted sexual advance is not assault??

I thought the poster was referencing the part of my post where I spoke about the trouser prank in school, in fact the poster was referencing something else.

Of course, not every unwanted sexual advance is a crime. But all of those in the video could be, even if nobody's seriously going to prosecute any of them.

Brendan Delaney

The girl at the end should learn to drink responsibly.

KikiLaRue

Brendan Delaney wrote: »

The girl at the end should learn to drink responsibly.

Getting drunk isn’t a crime. Sexual assault is.

Brendan Delaney

Brendan Delaney wrote: »

The girl at the end should learn to drink responsibly.

the guy at the end should be less rapey

Brendan Delaney

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

the guy at the end should be less rapey

Yeah but the girl should not drink herself into such a state that she is totally defenseless.

odyssey06

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I thought the poster was referencing the part of my post where I spoke about the trouser prank in school, in fact the poster was referencing something else.

Of course, not every unwanted sexual advance is a crime. But all of those in the video could be, even if nobody's seriously going to prosecute any of them.

Lets focus on what we can prosecute. Show them in video. State what offence has been committed. Showing that video to judges would have more effect than predators. Predators pay more attention to actions like number of convictions... length of sentence... things like concurrent sentencing for multiple crimes.

Video means nothing without the real work... detection prosecution sentencing.

But this government doesnt do real.

Brendan Delaney

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Getting drunk isn’t a crime. Sexual assault is.

Agreed but don't get so wasted that you're defenceless.

is_that_so

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

the guy at the end should be less rapey

It's really not clear what he is, it's the overall context of the video that suggests he might be up to no good. He could be a good Samaritan for all we know as it's just a snippet.

Alf Veedersane

Brendan Delaney wrote: »

Yeah but the girl should not drink herself into such a state that she is totally defenseless.

That's the message that stood out about that incident?

KikiLaRue

Brendan Delaney wrote: »

Yeah but the girl should not drink herself into such a state that she is totally defenseless.

Women shouldn’t have to be on guard to fight a rapist off.

Brendan Delaney

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Women shouldn’t have to be on guard to fight a rapist off.

But they do. We will always have rapists and scum. Don't make yourself vulnerable. Only in Clown World can that be a controversial statement.

odyssey06

Videos about being 'rapey' ... and when actual rapists are caught even serial rapists they are let out after joke sentences. Its the pathetic response of a weak state... may as well raise a white flag as far as protecting innocent people.

KikiLaRue

Brendan Delaney wrote: »

But they do. We will always have rapists and scum. Don't make yourself vulnerable. Only in Clown World can that be a controversial statement.

It is a controversial statement.

You never hear it said after a lad gets his head kicked in on a night out “he shouldn’t have got so drunk and left himself defenceles”

In that scenario you blame the guys who kicked his head in.

odyssey06

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Women shouldn’t have to be on guard to fight a rapist off.

They shouldnt. But if this is the best the state can come up with in terms of protection... well they would more be more prudent to rely on their own vigilance.

Brendan Delaney

KikiLaRue wrote: »

It is a controversial statement.

You never hear it said after a lad gets his head kicked in on a night out “he shouldn’t have got so drunk and left himself defenceles”

In that scenario you blame the guys who kicked his head in.

No I say the same regardless of the sex of the victim. There are a lot of predators out there unfortunately.

odyssey06

KikiLaRue wrote: »

It is a controversial statement.
You never hear it said after a lad gets his head kicked in on a night out “he shouldn’t have got so drunk and left himself defenceles”
In that scenario you blame the guys who kicked his head in.

If I am mugged walking home through a park at night all moral and legal blame attaches to the mugger.
Would I advise / warn others to avoid that park... hell yes.

Advising someone to get a house alarm does not mean they are to blame if broken into.