Irish couple facing deportation from Australia because son has cystic fibrosis lose a

Balf

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-couple-facing-deportation-because-son-has-cystic-fibrosis-loses-appeal-4622484-May2019/

AN IRISH COUPLE in Australia, facing deportation because their three-year-old son has cystic fibrosis, have had their appeal rejected.

Christine and Antony Hyde’s application for permanent residency was denied because their Australian-born son, Daragh, does not satisfy health criteria.

Would this happen here?

Mrs OBumble

Balf wrote: »

Would this happen here?

Yes. Countries don't usually accept disabled people as immigrants, unless the family is rich enough to provide lifetime care for them.

The only exception is asylum seekers.

Roger Hassenforder

Balf wrote: »

Would this happen here?

"Daragh was born (in Australia) a few weeks after the couple applied for permanent residency in August 2015...the Australian Department of Home Affairs... found that Daragh did not meet the prescribed health criteria and would be a burden to the state. "

Fcuk, thats cold.

harr

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Countries don't usually accept disabled people as immigrants, unless the family is rich enough to provide lifetime care for them.

The only exception is asylum seekers.

But he was born in Australia.. surely that would/should make a difference.

suicide_circus

harr wrote: »

But he was born in Australia.. surely that would/should make a difference.

it may, they are getting an audience with the relevant minister who might exercise clemency. it is cold but also prudent.

riffmongous

He was born there and lived there till now.

What really shocked me was the cost of the drugs, around 200k per year!

Guy:Incognito

riffmongous wrote: »

He was born there and lived there till now.

It doesnt take 4 years to apply and get an answer about residency though, does it?

Presumably the Aussies are leaning towards the kid being an anchor baby, possibly even if he wasnt born with CF?

Squatter

harr wrote: »

But he was born in Australia.. surely that would/should make a difference.

No.

He was born to two non-Australians who happened to be visiting the country on a visa that defined the period for which they could remain there.

EmmetSpiceland

harr wrote: »

But he was born in Australia.. surely that would/should make a difference.

Doesn’t make one here so why would we expect it to make one there?

judeboy101

Wtf is mild CF? I thought it was a life limiting disease?

steddyeddy

judeboy101 wrote: »

Wtf is mild CF? I thought it was a life limiting disease?

There's various forms of it each defined by a particular mutation in a protein that transports chloride out of the cell membrane. People who are unable to move ions across cell walls become prone to a build up of mucous and subsequent infections.

Galwayguy35

It's not the end of the world if they are sent back here, we're not exactly a thrid world country and the Aussies know this.

ILoveYourVibes

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Countries don't usually accept disabled people as immigrants, unless the family is rich enough to provide lifetime care for them.

The only exception is asylum seekers.

That is the essence of discrimination.:(

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not the end of the world if they are sent back here, we're not exactly a thrid world country and the Aussies know this.

Ireland has some of the best CF treatment centers in the world. They might actually be better off moving home.

Nigel Fairservice

Before I was diagnosed with MS I lived in Canada for a while and I would have been really interested in going back out there. After the diagnosis that door was firmly closed. I would be a burden on society. Nice way for someone to describe you. If I would be one there it follows I must be one here too!

Nigel Fairservice

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

Before I was diagnosed with MS I lived in Canada for a while and I would have been really interested in going back out there. After the diagnosis that door was firmly closed. I would be a burden on society. Nice way for someone to describe you. If I would be one there it follows I must be one here too!

The truth is often unpleasant.

One eyed Jack

judeboy101 wrote: »

Wtf is mild CF? I thought it was a life limiting disease?

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's various forms of it each defined by a particular mutation in a protein that transports chloride out of the cell membrane. People who are unable to move ions across cell walls become prone to a build up of mucous and subsequent infections.

That’s the essential problem with vague terminology like “life limiting”. It’s the same as suggesting that because humans aren’t born with wings, they can’t fly - their lives are limited by the fact that they can’t fly.

Describing the condition as mild refers to the degree of it’s severity, also equally vague, varying from mild to severe depending upon how it’s quantified. If judeboy means life limiting in the sense that if the condition is severe and if left untreated it could result in early infant death, they’re correct. However because of advances in medicine and technology, a person with the condition, dependent upon it’s severity, will mean they would have a very different life to the life they could have had, if they had not had the condition.

The cost of drugs, medical and potentially the surgical procedures such as a lung transplant in later life would all be borne by the State, and then there is the obvious potential for the condition to be inherited by a couples children if both parents were carriers of the genes that cause CF.

In Australia there are just over 3,000 people with CF -

Australian Cystic Fibrosis Data Registry 2017

In Ireland (which incidentally has the highest prevalence of CF in the world), there are just over 1,000 people with CF -

CF Registry Data Highlights 2017


I can completely understand why the Home Affairs Dept rejected the couples appeal in these circumstances.

Fr Tod Umptious

harr wrote: »

But he was born in Australia.. surely that would/should make a difference.

In this country in 2004 we voted by by a margin of 80/20 that people born here of not citizen or non EU parents had no natural right to citizenship

So it's probably the same in Australia
Just cos he was born there makes no difference.

riffmongous

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt take 4 years to apply and get an answer about residency though, does it?

Presumably the Aussies are leaning towards the kid being an anchor baby, possibly even if he wasnt born with CF?

You presume wrong, they (Australia) were inviting the couple to apply for the permanent residency before the baby was born. If they'd applied a few months earlier there wouldn't have been any problem

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-18/irish-family-deportation-likely-as-son-has-cystic-fibrosis/11028560

Guy:Incognito

riffmongous wrote: »

You presume wrong, they (Australia) were inviting the couple to apply for the permanent residency before the baby was born. If they'd applied a few months earlier there wouldn't have been any problem

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-18/irish-family-deportation-likely-as-son-has-cystic-fibrosis/11028560

Fair enough. But at the end of the day, they have their rules.

The thing of "but hes been there his whole life" is not really relevant. Hes only there that long because they spent 3 years appealing the decision.

Much like anyone here who appeals for years then lose and try to play the "but they've lived here their whole life "card. What's the point if decisions being made if they mean fup all as long as you can play silly buggers and delay getting kicked out long enough. May as well scrap the rules and let whoever turns up in for life

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Countries don't usually accept disabled people as immigrants, unless the family is rich enough to provide lifetime care for them.

The only exception is asylum seekers.

I don't know what the general trend is, but it's worth remarking that questions about medical illnesses are not asked on Irish citizenship applications nor is there any medical examination requested.

It is requested that applicants should be capable of supporting themselves in the sense that they have a job, but the State literally doesn't want to know if you're getting medical treatment for anything. Which seems civilised.

jam_mac_jam

I think it's fair enough as a rule. Why should the country have to support you when you come from a rich country. You should be able to support yourself. I do feel for the family but at the end of the day that's the rule

KikiLaRue

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know what the general trend is, but it's worth remarking that questions about medical illnesses are not asked on Irish citizenship applications nor is there any medical examination requested.

It is requested that applicants should be capable of supporting themselves in the sense that they have a job, but the State literally doesn't want to know if you're getting medical treatment for anything. Which seems civilised.

That's interesting, because it's an incredibly arduous process otherwise.

Fr_Dougal

The mother has said in this interview that she wants to stay because the drug her son needs is not available in Ireland...I think her Google must be broken https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/900-with-cf-have-access-to-potentially-life-saving-drugs-orkambi-and-kalydeco-1.3104811

The Australians will let her stay, however.

wandererz

They said that they have no interest in returning to Ireland. Apparently there was nothing here for them.

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

riffmongous

wandererz wrote: »

They said that they have no interest in returning to Ireland. Apparently there was nothing here for them.

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

They left in 2009 though, that was a pretty **** time for a lot of people

riffmongous

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Fair enough. But at the end of the day, they have their rules.

The thing of "but hes been there his whole life" is not really relevant. Hes only there that long because they spent 3 years appealing the decision.

Much like anyone here who appeals for years then lose and try to play the "but they've lived here their whole life "card. What's the point if decisions being made if they mean fup all as long as you can play silly buggers and delay getting kicked out long enough. May as well scrap the rules and let whoever turns up in for life

Yeah I can understand that.. the problem is these things taking so long that it becomes an issue. It's not the kids fault that it takes 3-4 years

wandererz

wandererz wrote: »

They said that they have no interest in returning to Ireland. Apparently there was nothing here for them.

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

They’re going to bring their talents and work ethic back with them. Ireland’s a much different place now to when they left.

Dalomanakora

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland has some of the best CF treatment centers in the world. They might actually be better off moving home.

Was coming on to say this.


For all we complain about the HSE, and God knows I do, they are absolutely fantastic when it comes to CF. IIRC we have the highest incidences of it in the world, and the treatment is brilliant in Ireland.

One of my mates has CF, a severe form I guess. They were told they would live into their teens.


In their early twenties, Beaumont Hospital were providing taxis for their treatment, as they lived in another county.


Eventually, they were seriously ill, coming towards the end, when a person who passed away had their family donate their organs.


Thanks to the quick work of the HSE, my friend has a much longer, healthier life ahead with new lungs.



The family would probably get fantastic treatment here if they're made to return, which is one silver lining.

1874

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Countries don't usually accept disabled people as immigrants, unless the family is rich enough to provide lifetime care for them.

The only exception is asylum seekers.

Seems to leave that open to abuse,

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Doesn’t make one here so why would we expect it to make one there?

Its a different country, with different laws, a different electorate, different values, probably part of the way to explain that. IMO it probably should, and I say that as someone with a quite mild medical condition, I dont see why anyone who might have to be on the receiving end of significant financial treatment at the expense of a host nation could be expected to have such an application not rejected.

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's various forms of it each defined by a particular mutation in a protein that transports chloride out of the cell membrane. People who are unable to move ions across cell walls become prone to a build up of mucous and subsequent infections.

Thats interesting, I mean that seriously, I dont want to say how close that is to my own situation, tiny changes in cell (I suppose it could be called ) structure through genetic mutation, can result in massive changes, and one change could be not apparent and another could have life debilitating effects.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not the end of the world if they are sent back here, we're not exactly a thrid world country and the Aussies know this.

You'd think so, probably more opportunities or they are there so long, it could be very difficult to re-adjust to back here and likely very much more expensive, I can understand their reticence. To start back up here could be a significant uphill struggle.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is the essence of discrimination.:(

Its probably a practical necessity, break the rule for one, and then what?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know what the general trend is, but it's worth remarking that questions about medical illnesses are not asked on Irish citizenship applications nor is there any medical examination requested.

It is requested that applicants should be capable of supporting themselves in the sense that they have a job, but the State literally doesn't want to know if you're getting medical treatment for anything. Which seems civilised.

They bloody well should be, it makes practical sense, Im sure we'll here the whole but the Irish went to America, Id relatives that went there quite a long time ago, and they were required to take medicals.

Mrs OBumble

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is the essence of discrimination.:(

Do you think that Ireland should not be discriminating in assessing applications to migrate here? That we should accept everyone who applies regardless of their ability to contribute to society?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you think that Ireland should not be discriminating in assessing applications to migrate here? That we should accept everyone who applies regardless of their ability to contribute to society?

We already do require them to be capable of contributing to society. It's a requirement for migrants to have a job, or at least have a significantly strong work history.

But we don't reject people in the basis of being born with a medical condition, or getting cancer for example. We're kinda not cnuts that way.

ArnoldJRimmer

wandererz wrote: »

They said that they have no interest in returning to Ireland. Apparently there was nothing here for them.

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

This fcuking nonsense in every thread that mentions people that emigrate. I don't know why some people have to act like a lover scorned on behalf of Ireland just because someone took an opportunity abroad at a time when the economy was in the toilet (which is since the foundation of the state, bar 1993-2007)

Fr_Dougal

Deleted User wrote: »

They’re going to bring their talents and work ethic back with them. Ireland’s a much different place now to when they left.

A SNA and a part-time bus driver?

Calhoun

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"Daragh was born (in Australia) a few weeks after the couple applied for permanent residency in August 2015...the Australian Department of Home Affairs... found that Daragh did not meet the prescribed health criteria and would be a burden to the state. "

Fcuk, thats cold.

Was a case a few years ago where an Irish family were moving to Canada, all the family bar one child got approval to move across because they had autism.

Seems its normal enough practice to decline based on probable medical support required.

wandererz

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

This fcuking nonsense in every thread that mentions people that emigrate. I don't know why some people have to act like a lover scorned on behalf of Ireland just because someone took an opportunity abroad at a time when the economy was in the toilet (which is since the foundation of the state, bar 1993-2007)

Don't mind people who emigrate at all. By all means emigrate & keep your options open. But they specifically scorned the country in the media & said they did not want to return. So i don't see why it should be national news.

ArnoldJRimmer

wandererz wrote: »

Don't mind people who emigrate at all. By all means emigrate & keep your options open. But they specifically scorned the country in the media & said they did not want to return. So i don't see why it should be national news.

They've made their lives, careers and friends in another country over a number of years, so its understandable that its not their first choice to go back and start again

Unless I'm missing the quote where they said 'I'm not going back to that sh!thole, the absolute state of it'

Mrs OBumble

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But we don't reject people in the basis of being born with a medical condition, or getting cancer for example. We're kinda not cnuts that way.

Ireland doesn't ask the question that directly.

Here it's done on the basis of school attendance and/or GP practice attendance - not even a doctor's report.
ref: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/form-CTZ4.pdf/Files/form-CTZ4.pdf

If there are unusual patterns of either, I'd expect the application to be declined, or to at least receive further scrutiny.

Countries don't take on other country's problems.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ireland doesn't ask the question that directly.

Here it's done on the basis of school attendance and/or GP practice attendance - not even a doctor's report.
ref: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/form-CTZ4.pdf/Files/form-CTZ4.pdf

If there are unusual patterns of either, I'd expect the application to be declined, or to at least receive further scrutiny.

Countries don't take on other country's problems.

Funnily enough (well, it's not exactly funny) that form differs quite dramatically from an adult's application, where no medical information is requested.

I suspect, but I'm not entirely sure, that those questions are intended to ascertain that the kiddies are going to school and are registered with a GP for their own benefit. Or, those answers may be sought as a way of ensuring that the kids are actually resident, and have been so (by definition, they won't have had a work history, and can't be forced to attend schools. I think that explains those questions)

In short, those questions are a way of proving residence, not health status, which isn't cited as a reason for refusal to be granted the relevant permission.

For the sake of completeness, as the lawyers say, it should be noted that the Minister can refuse an application for any reason. But health concerns are not even questioned, and probably are not relevant.

riffmongous

wandererz wrote: »

Don't mind people who emigrate at all. By all means emigrate & keep your options open. But they specifically scorned the country in the media & said they did not want to return. So i don't see why it should be national news.

Probably in the Australian media though, for an Aussie audience

ZeroThreat

Calhoun wrote: »

Was a case a few years ago where an Irish family were moving to Canada, all the family bar one child got approval to move across because they had autism.

Seems its normal enough practice to decline based on probable medical support required.

hmm I wonder if it's only the more severe forms of autism that are ruled out, would seem very harsh if very mild forms were included.

Calhoun

ZeroThreat wrote: »

hmm I wonder if it's only the more severe forms of autism that are ruled out, would seem very harsh if very mild forms were included.

I am not sure to be perfectly honest, its just a case that sticks in my mind as my daughter has autism.

Chocolate fiend

We live in Australia, when we were becoming residents the medical was full on, including blood tests, x-rays and urine samples. They are very careful about who becomes a resident/citizen (medically speaking)
My 11 year old was born in Australia but only became a citizen back in February when the rest of the family did. Being born in Australia to parents who are not citizens does not give you any extra citizenship rights.
I feel sorry for these people, wasn't there a similar case in Ireland last year where a family from China were living in Bray and were going to be deported because they didn't fulfil some criteria? What happened there in the end?

Calhoun

Chocolate fiend wrote: »

We live in Australia, when we were becoming residents the medical was full on, including blood tests, x-rays and urine samples. They are very careful about who becomes a resident/citizen (medically speaking)
My 11 year old was born in Australia but only became a citizen back in February when the rest of the family did. Being born in Australia to parents who are not citizens does not give you any extra citizenship rights.
I feel sorry for these people, wasn't there a similar case in Ireland last year where a family from China were living in Bray and were going to be deported because they didn't fulfil some criteria? What happened there in the end?

Not exactly, the case in bray the mother had her application rejected. By the time it came under review again her son was 9 years old.

As far as i am aware they were medically sound.

Sam Quentin

wandererz wrote: »

Don't mind people who emigrate at all. By all means emigrate & keep your options open. But they specifically scorned the country in the media & said they did not want to return. So i don't see why it should be national news.

I have never come across any Country better or more beautiful than Ireland,.and I've been to a few, now I lived in London for a few years and maybe would have stayed!?but I only would have stayed for love......but that ended(she seen the light)so I returned to my beautiful Country that I always missed anyway

Yurt2

Calhoun wrote: »

Not exactly, the case in bray the mother had her application rejected. By the time it came under review again her son was 9 years old.

As far as i am aware they were medically sound.

According to reports in the media, she was a student visa overstayer who fraudulently obtained an Irish passport for her son (lied on the form and said the father was an Irish citizen) and was caught out.

AngryHippie

wandererz wrote: »

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

Bitter much ?

go on, tell the truth and shame the devil :rolleyes:

OldMrBrennan83

riffmongous wrote: »

They left in 2009 though, that was a pretty **** time for a lot of people

Ah it wasn't really. People had just got too greedy and thew the toys out of the pram when they couldn't buy the third Qashqai or second Bulgarian holiday home. It was far from bad for most and I'd let none of them back.

Samuel Vimes

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I have never come across any Country better or more beautiful than Ireland,.

You need to travel more!

weldoninhio

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt take 4 years to apply and get an answer about residency though, does it?

Presumably the Aussies are leaning towards the kid being an anchor baby, possibly even if he wasnt born with CF?

The parents would have gotten residency if they'd put the forms in a week previously, but with the mother pregnant and about to give birth, they never got around to it. No one ever thinks their child will be born with a disability.

weldoninhio

wandererz wrote: »

They said that they have no interest in returning to Ireland. Apparently there was nothing here for them.

Now they have to move back and we will have to foot the bill for these deserters who don't want to be here.

Yeah, because there is no need for teachers in Ireland at all at the moment. :rolleyes::rolleyes: