Do you want taller buildings in Ireland?

Sheeps

In Dublin Johnny Ronan is planning a new 44 storey building down in the docklands, has launched a campaign trying to win public support for an additional 2 stories on to the sales force tower, will be pushing ahead at Tara Street for a 20 something storey tower. In Cork and Limerick similar battles for the skyline are being fought tooth and nail.

In one corner you have the architects and nimbys who fawn over georgian buildings, and the other corner you have profit lead developers who feign interest in solving the housing crisis, but are advantageously using this period to maximise profits.

Where do you stand on taller building up?

Pissartist

We could build twin towers

mikhail

Dublin is pathetically flat for such a small city. Taller buildings, done right, mean better population density, which makes the city centre livlier, commuting on foot or bike more popular, and public transport more viable. Done wrong, it means Ballymun.

What's wrong with developers maximising profits anyway? Once they're not cutting corners to do it, let them eat their ****ing cake. It's the guys who skimp on the fire doors I'd like to see abandoned on Rockall with a canteen of water and a gun with one bullet.

Ursus Horribilis

Yes but it depends on how high and where.

jimmycrackcorm

Plenty of cities have a mix of an area that is high rise and low density other areas. I don't see why we can't do the same especially when it comes to utilising the Docklands.

Tell me how

Sheeps wrote: »

In Dublin Johnny Ronan is planning a new 44 storey building down in the docklands, has launched a campaign trying to win public support for an additional 2 stories on to the sales force tower, will be pushing ahead at Tara Street for a 20 something storey tower. In Cork and Limerick similar battles for the skyline are being fought tooth and nail.

In one corner you have the architects and nimbys who fawn over georgian buildings, and the other corner you have profit lead developers who feign interest in solving the housing crisis, but are advantageously using this period to maximise profits.

Where do you stand on taller building up?

I don't have a problem with taller buildings per se but I fear that we are not optimising the resources we have as a country.
I also think there are many areas (inside and outside Dublin) which are boarded up and yet we are clambering to build up rather than utilise buildings which exist. Are all the rooms on the upper floors of buildings along the quays being utilised as apartments currently for are they empty? If we go up, these buildings will continue to be left vacant and be eyesores on our streets.

Plus, it would be more sustainable to use what we have than use materials for new buildings time and again.

Sheeps

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Yes but it depends on how high and where.

I don't think anyone is proposing we build sky scrapers in Merrion Square, but most of the developments seem to be propping up in strategic development zones because they circumvent the council's housing plan for an area with a more common sense approach. Places like the IFSC, Ringsend, Cherrywood etc. These are new areas of Dublin that have been almost completely gentrified already, or brown field development wastelands that are just awaiting buildings.

It really kills me to say this, but it is one of the few things it would seem that Eoghan Murphy has got right in his time as minister.

Voted Yes. But depends on an Algorithm which incorporates the property developer involved, his standing with the FF / FG Government, the developer's level of credibility in the media both print and online, the degree of the NIMBY factor, and of course a bit on how mCh social housing the developer has built in the past, with the backdrop of the housing crisis that FG seem to be loosing the fight.

Rubberchikken

yes.
protecting dublins so called historic skyline is a load of rubbish.
if it wants to be a capital city and provide jobs and housing it needs to get its head out of the sand and vopy successful cities thst can manage to have a skyline and still have buildings that peoole and businesses need otherwise it has to accept that it will remain a backward, old fashioned large town.

biko

The Obel tower is only 28 floors, and this guy wants a tower twice as high?

Sheeps

biko wrote: »

The Obel tower is only 28 floors, and this guy wants a tower twice as high?

The building he's proposing building is nicer looking than that. It will still be shorter than the poolbeg chimenys.

hmmm

Yes, but in the city centre where they belong. The docklands should probably be knocked and rebuilt with 10 stories minimum, we messed that one up badly. The idea of tall buildings going up in places like Cherrywood, while we have low density suburbs within walking distance of the city centre is crazy.

Your Face

Sheeps wrote: »

In one corner you have the architects and nimbys who fawn over georgian buildings, and the other corner you have profit lead developers who feign interest in solving the housing crisis, but are advantageously using this period to maximise profits.

I don't think these have to be in opposition.

branie2

We have plenty of buildings already

Duane Dibbley

I would like Dublin City to be completely overhauled with tall office blocks and modern high rise apartments.

With the exception of some modern buildings, the city looks like a run down kip.

Del2005

The choice is either up or out and since we have done out, people commuting several hours to get to Dublin!, we should try up so that people aren't commuting several hours to work.

People travelled several hours to work is not good for anything so the out building of Dublin can't continue therefore we need to go up for the environment and people. And companies that are choosing to base in Dublin won't go to anywhere else in Ireland. They are choosing between Dublin and other major cities, where Dublin is doing quite well even though its infrastructure is being hobbled by politics.

satguy

Dinny got a valuable phone licence with the help of his TD friends, and is now a Billionaire.
Surely we can turn a blind eye while some of our nice TD make Johnny a Billionaire.

Sure it has been set in motion some time ago,,, even a tribunal can't stop it now.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0201/849338-questions-raised-in-dail-about-johnny-ronan-nama/

Hector Savage

Sheeps wrote: »

The building he's proposing building is nicer looking than that. It will still be shorter than the poolbeg chimenys.

Where is this photo ?
Liverpool ?

Sheeps

Hector Savage wrote: »

Where is this photo ?
Liverpool ?

That's the rendering of what the building will look like, down near the 3 arena in Dublin

AH answer, yes please if there's the slightest possibility of the building's shadow cutting across me for a time during the day so I can claim €10ks or object.

A no brainer. Dublin houses costing bazilions, build up you say?

Hector Savage

Deleted User wrote: »

AH answer, yes please if there's the slightest possibility of the building's shadow cutting across me for a time during the day so I can claim €10ks or object.

A no brainer. Dublin houses costing bazilions, build up you say?

It won't make property any more affordable.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

It won't make property any more affordable.

Many multiple homes taking up the same land. Of course it will.

fortwilliam

I’m living in the US at the moment, in a condo/apartment tower block,
43 floors, 38 of which are residential units x 12,
This brings 456 homes to a plot about the footprint of a woodies shop & carpark, or at my estimate an estate of 30-40 houses
We need to do this in Dublin.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Dublin has basically sprawled all the way out to Kildare. It's high time they start building up. 8 out of 10 Dubliner's are in support of taller buildings. Done right it could look amazing.

Battle for the Dublin skyline: Are you ready for Johnny Ronan's 'world class' hanging gardens?

I mean Cork had the two tallest buildings in Ireland up until last year. Despite having about a quarter of the population of Dublin.

WoollyRedHat

Sheeps wrote: »

That's the rendering of what the building will look like, down near the 3 arena in Dublin

That actually looks really well, got a Chicago vibe.

Billy86

fortwilliam wrote: »

I’m living in the US at the moment, in a condo/apartment tower block,
43 floors, 38 of which are residential units x 12,
This brings 456 homes to a plot about the footprint of a woodies shop & carpark, or at my estimate an estate of 30-40 houses
We need to do this in Dublin.

Same here, even on 12 floors we have 226 units, so approx 500 people housed, in an area about the size of a goofball pitch.

There's a nice courtyard in the centre, though without it they could probably get another 100-150 units in to house around 800.

In Dublin, that would likely be taken up by old houses and small buildings, with maybe even under 100 people living in the whole space.

biko

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-city-hall-begins-talks-with-skyscraper-developers-821146.html

Sheeps

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

That actually looks really well, got a Chicago vibe.

It actually reminds me a bit of some of the newer medium height buildings in Taipei the way they've incorporated the greenery in to it. Greenery when combined with high rise is amazing.

Dick phelan

Yes it's a joke the way Dublin is designed, i mean we don't need to be like Hong Kong or Shanghai but FFS nothing wrong with some high rise office and apartment blocks. People complain about the housing crisis, there isn't enough land in the Dublin area for everyone to have a house, nothing wrong with living in a nice apartment. People need to get the idea that a 4 bed house in Dublin is a must, it just ain't affordable and will never be for most.

pablo128

fortwilliam wrote: »

I’m living in the US at the moment, in a condo/apartment tower block,
43 floors, 38 of which are residential units x 12,
This brings 456 homes to a plot about the footprint of a woodies shop & carpark, or at my estimate an estate of 30-40 houses
We need to do this in Dublin.

How big is the car park?

ted1

Get about 300 acres in Meath. Build a mega city there with a subway direct to the airport and city centre. Sorted.

ctrl-alt-delete

Yes, nothing wrong with mixing the old with the modern.
However not too modern, there are some structures out there that will not age well.

I love the Old State House in Boston, even more when you consider it is also a station for an unbelievable underground transport system.

I think Dublin and the suburbs need high frequency high capacity public transport before a high rise skyline though.

fortwilliam

pablo128 wrote: »

How big is the car park?

The carpark is in the first 5 floors of the building,
There is a shared space with BBQ/Pool/Deck on the 9th which is used widely by the community of residences.

SEPT 23 1989

Sure we tried living in big towers before and we all ended up hooked on heroin over it so we did

Sheeps

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Sure we tried living in big towers before and we all ended up hooked on heroin over it so we did

Yeah, those people ended up on heroin because the building was tall.

ToddyDoody

Build tall, yes, but ensure roofs blow off during a storm.

The Satanist

No because anything over 4 storeys will block out the sun for the entire country causing an ice age and certain death for everything forever.

kenmc

I would love to see nice high buildings in Ireland, but I don't trust our cowboy builders to do it right. There's just too many corners which are ripe for cutting, yielding even more money for their grubby little paws.

E.g. the fire safety issues in the development near grand canal basin, leaks in the blocks in beacon sandyford etc.

JustAThought

Remember the fire in Belmayne last year?

Or.the 'hotel' fire/infrerno in Ballymun that was a miracle noone was not incinerated in..

What about the hundreds of appartment owners quietly living in non compliant units that are deathtraps that the fire brigade and councils know about but don't organise to be repaired or the authorities who signed off on them and their substandard inspections made foot the bill.

Dublin fire brigade can barely manage what we have height wide today. They are sharing he high rise ladders between stations and having to race to stations to pick.the shared ladders up before then racing on to high rise fires beyond a certain height.


How about internal lifts that are not supposed to be used in case or fire. How will all these hundreds of families evacuate safely down stairwells?And what about the old, or children, or infirm?

And will Jonny Ronan be sending up his husband or son to rescue people from burning buildings 20 storeys high while thousands stream down the same stairs? Probably not.


Remember Grenfell Towers?

Its all about profit.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

biko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-city-hall-begins-talks-with-skyscraper-developers-821146.html

I really hope that gets built. The proposed Prism building next to the bus station looks really great as well. 15-storey Prism gets the go ahead.

The amount of new buildings in Cork is crazy. So many developments and cranes everywhere. It's great.

BeerWolf

What of the idea of having buildings go subterranean, down instead of up?

kravmaga

Sheeps wrote: »

In Dublin Johnny Ronan is planning a new 44 storey building down in the docklands, has launched a campaign trying to win public support for an additional 2 stories on to the sales force tower, will be pushing ahead at Tara Street for a 20 something storey tower. In Cork and Limerick similar battles for the skyline are being fought tooth and nail.

In one corner you have the architects and nimbys who fawn over georgian buildings, and the other corner you have profit lead developers who feign interest in solving the housing crisis, but are advantageously using this period to maximise profits.

Where do you stand on taller building up?

This subject has been already done to death, see Skyscrapercity website link for Ireland, October 6th 2017.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/radical-rethink-of-planning-system-means-more-highrise-developments-on-the-horizon-36201981.html

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2034624

Guy:Incognito

BeerWolf wrote: »

What of the idea of having buildings go subterranean, down instead of up?

Who needs light at all. Everyone can be mole people.

Sheeps

BeerWolf wrote: »

What of the idea of having buildings go subterranean, down instead of up?

It's considerably more expensive, but a lot of them do. In Asia for example some basements are 14 stories beneath the ground level. It's more for commercial.

ILoveYourVibes

Yes build up (safely) not out.

We are really behind the rest of the world.

ChikiChiki

No debate. Anyone who doesn't want taller buildings in Ireland is an absolute tool. If you can't see the impact of such policy on the future of the country then more fool you.

The docklands should be full of high rise and the old city (current city centre) retained

ChikiChiki

Hector Savage wrote: »

It won't make property any more affordable.

Ladies and gents. Stupidity in a sentence.

Qrt

Depends on the location. I’m no fan of skyscrapers really, they’re very high maintenance and usually create odd socio-economic enclaves which yield ridiculous societal influence.

But I do like a nice six storey apartment block, especially ones which take in the views of parks etc. We need all the LAPs examined, SDCC have an arbitrary height limit of three storeys in the Fortunestown LAP, ie an area with the Luas Red Line travelling right down the middle. Thankfully ABP are ignoring them with their fast-track system.

Witchie

I live in Kuala Lumpur and think that it is time Dublin took a leaf out of its book and built up.

I think a few tall multi purpose buildings would be fantastic. You build a shopping mall on the first few floors, an office tower and a residential tower, possibly add in a hotel for the first few floors, giving people everything they need in one small footprint. Facilities like a gym and a pool, bars, restaurants and social spaces give people a quality of life.

I live in a one bed apartment on the 11th floor and have an almost Olympic sized pool, an indoor and outdoor gym, BBQ area, yoga studio, conference room, a restaurant, dentist and beauticians (don't have a full range of shops because am next door to a mall) all for €400 a month in an area equivalent to Ballsbridge. It's possible because there are loads of similar developments so it can be cheap to rent here.

I know economically there is no comparison but when I see my son and his gf pay almost €2000 a month for a 1bed in Rathmines, with no facilities, I wonder why anyone would want to stay in Dublin.

I would love to see Dublin have an area of skyscrapers on the edge of the city. I love how colourful the skyline is.

whisky_galore

biko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-city-hall-begins-talks-with-skyscraper-developers-821146.html

Like a giant pleasuring device.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

I live in Wellington which is roughly the same size as Cork, although it is the capital of New Zealand. If you combined it with Dublin, 9 of the tallest 10 buildings would be in Wellington.

There are 11 buildings in the Republic of Ireland that are above 50m tall, compared to 51 in Wellington alone, or well over 100 if you include Auckland and Christchurch.

We need to build up and not just in Dublin.