Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713952#Comment_117713952

Sent a PM instead 👍😉

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713951#Comment_117713951

Be prepared for thousands of euro in depreciation if you're going to buy at retail. Even at a substantial discount. Here on adverts in the last week or so, a Hesalite sold for well less than half of that retail price you saw in the AD...

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713952#Comment_117713952

The last watch I bought from England I got posted to ni friend. He reposted it to me. The max he could insure it for was 250 pounds via Royal Mail at least. Could drive up there handy enough so that’s probably safest tax avoidance strategy to use.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714091#Comment_117714091

Was it brand new with B&P?

I think this new reference has a number of significant upgrades primarily the bracelet and movement so I wouldn't mind paying a premium but I'm thinking the retail price is very soft and we may see it selling at below €5k new and unused before the end of 2021.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714110#Comment_117714110

Evasion is the word there, not avoidance ;-)

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714189#Comment_117714189

Significant upgrades...

You are a marketers dream 😉

CT, that's precisely the kind of customer Omega are hoping for. Personally, yes the new model seems to have a nicer bracelet but there are zero actual significant upgrades.

In particular, it would impact on the already tenuous authentic link between the "moonwatch" and space. If the NASA link and moonlanding in particular matter? There is zero reason to buy the new model.

Why buy a watch that only looks like the moonwatch, when I can buy the space flown versions for far, far less?

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714262#Comment_117714262

I think that should be a 'marketer's wet dream' 😀

The space connection doesn't matter to me, just like the Bond connection when I bought my two Seamasters. I buy because I like the quality and look.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714366#Comment_117714366

And that's grand, there is zero issue with that.

For me, the new watch is more of an homage to the flight qualified 1861 movement watches. It takes design cues from the best of that watches heritage and TBF it does that we'll.

But, and for me it's a big but. The switch in movement to a non-flight qualified one means the new SKU's aren't moonwatches.

They certainly are Omega Speedmasters, they wear lower and they are a lovely watch, but the essence of the "moonwatch" is IMO at least the link to NASA and the landings.

There is none of that with the new Ref.

It's an Omega chrono, not a moonwatch but as most here know..

I can be a pedantic pain in the hole at times but the link between the speedmaster and Moon is severed.

If that link matters in any manner other than having an "Omega" on the wrist? Then an 1861 powered ref is the way to go.

If it's name recognition, or nice chrono that matters? Then barrel on.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714414#Comment_117714414

Regarding the NASA connection, what Omega puts on the back of this ref is interesting.

"Flight-Qualified By NASA in 1965 For All Manned Space Missions"

"The First Watch Worn On The Moon"

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714580#Comment_117714580

Which, in pedantic world...

Is a lie, it's not.

It's the successor to that watch but afaik given that NASA haven't been on the moon (manned at least) since '72, it's not a moonwatch. If it's not an 1861 movement, it's not a "moonwatch" and other than carrying Omega branding, it wouldn't be considered moonwatch adjacent.

I can't hand on heart opine as to the flight qual status of the 3861, but it's probably the model Jeff Bezos wore so there is that at least 😉

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714189#Comment_117714189

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117714189#Comment_117714189

The “ new from grey” dealer price can’t really drop continuously. Greys are getting the watch brand new through an AD. AD has a fixed margin (as they sell at RRP). They offer a fixed amount off to the grey who then need to make a profit and add a margin.

Best case you might see an AD matching the grey price (a sale or similar, they actually make more profit this way obviously than selling direct to Grey as there is no Grey margin).

You can only hope the used second hand price drops a little bit again ratios between prices are all relative and need to be maintained.

AD price >grey price> second price>old version price

893bet

With the old version second hand price strengthen then it’s difficult seeing the new version second hand price soften a lot.

I would get the second hand big box version for 3.5-4K if I were you. There is very little advantage to buying new.

blue5000

Ah lads, there's only one space watch to have, and it has a yellow dial.

Coneygree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117713710#Comment_117713710

I've yet to buy from Aliexpress since the new VAT ruling but I see they charge VAT at checkout up to 150 euro and over that they don't charge a cent, saying on the website that an individual countries' customs will charge VAT/import/handling fee. What I have heard though is in the case of an item being over 150 euro, is that they stamp a sticker on the box saying fees paid or something to that effect and put another sticker declaring the value <€150 so that customers won't get charged 9 times out of 10.

Lorddrakul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117715353#Comment_117715353

Which one would that be, then?

A Pogue?

Fitz II

I tried on the new speedmaster and its identical, and I know my way around a decent watch. The bracelet is a bit better maybe, but the case is also quite sharp (verified by me, not just internet stuff). The grey prices on this are unlikely to be significantly lower than RRP for quite a while, and if Omega put up their RRP you might actually be worse off.

That Chrono buyer is dodgy BTW CT, its a fishing exercise, doesnt have the watches you would note he has over 1600 watches listed. He will try source one for you if you contact him probably just using a fixed discount negotiated in Keans.

I applaud you new found interest in quality, but a moonwatch even though its a good watch is not worth 6k or 5.5k or even 5k. Its a 3k watch or 4k if you want the annoying big box. A new watch means nothing, sure half the pricks in cork will have tried it on, and having your name on the card is a worthless noob consideration.

Question really is how much is 6 months without the watch worth to you? How many 6 months do you have left?

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117716300#Comment_117716300

Don't worry I'm not planning to die just yet but it's a question you could ask anyone, none of us know the answer.

I have quite a few 'quality watches' as well as a number of shitters but a watch-snob might not agree.

Anyway as I said before I'm gonna take my time.

Blanchy90

Thought I'd post this here too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp5HLv9sqwg

Blanch Talks Watches has hit 100 subscribers, thanks everyone thats subbed and for all the helpful comments.

I'm lining up some great watches for review (including some close to home) so be sure to subscribe so you dont miss them.

banie01

Panerai playing fast and loose with their description of in-house and shipping ETA2892 with a chrono module as an P9200?

Don't know how true any of the following is, but it is an interesting read and the blogs correcting their copy doesn't paint Panerai in a great light IMO.

https://perezcope.com/2021/08/08/panerai-in-house-movements-a-pam-of-worms/amp/

Cyclingtourist

Just get a Pamphibia, totally in-house movement and a waiting list of sorts for those who prefer that manufactured 'desirability'.

Blanchy90

Very interesting real, pretty shocking really for a watch of that price that they use an undecorated movement. The photoshop on their image makes it look like they want it hidden too.

+1 for the Pamphibia haha

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727928#Comment_117727928

Was about to post that. Will Panerai never learn. I am not a big believer in in house as a necessity, but it does go to show that corners have not been cut and makes clones much easier to spot. On a 10k watch its really not on.

Vostock is all inhouse alright, shame its so bad. More out house than in house.

unkel

Leaves a sour taste in your mouth alright. Obviously the bean counters / short term profit merchants at Richemont are running the show. Same as what happened to Mercedes-Benz in the early 90s...

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728735#Comment_117728735

When the same group owns ALS, VC and JLC its hard to believe the appreciation for inhouse does not exist, or that the expertise to get it done does not exist. Sounds more that they have decided that the panerai buyer is not interested in that sort of thing and are a fashion brand like Hublot. Its a shame, panerai are legit.

scwazrh

Anyone that knows anything about Panerai knows not to trust a word from them. If its not pre-V any story that accompanies their watches designs or movement have to be taken with a pinch of salt .

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728890#Comment_117728890

Panerai is hard enough to get into, the whole PAM numbers and Panerasti is difficult to penetrate. I would not feel confident walking into weirs and choosing a Panerai I liked the look of and it not turning out to be somehow inferior. Thus far my knowledge goes - dont buy white dials, and has to be a sandwich dial. There are a lot of editions and variations and massive price variations on watches that look the same from 5 meters.....but I suppose you can say that about most watches really.

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729102#Comment_117729102

That's part of the appeal with Panerai though. If you've 10 grand to buy a decent watch , you buy a Sub . If you are drawn to Panerai for whatever reason there's a lot more research to do. When you find one you like the look of it probably wont fit or will have springs bars instead of screws bar or something else that will make you keep looking.

Panerai are definitely more unique as well , how many times do you see a Panerai in the wild? If you see a Rolex on someone's wrist there's a good chance they are in sales, with Panerai you know straight away the wearer is into watches .

Like most watches I buy ,my interest in the piece would have started as a kid and for me with Panerai it was Sly Stallone's Panerai in the mid 90s.So once I was looking for my Panerai I knew a wanted a non sandwich dial, Luminor , base logo with screw bars. I ended going for the one with small seconds though but all the other details are correct. When it was time to get a sub ,it was just a standard sub..

Fitz II

So say a chap like me wants to get into panerai but knows nothing, maybe test the waters in that 3-6k range. What would you recommend, something classic Panerai? What are the classic Panerai models. New or Used? whats are the ones to avoid?

Wibbs

Fitz Was about to post that. Will Panerai never learn. I am not a big believer in in house as a necessity, but it does go to show that corners have not been cut and makes clones much easier to spot. On a 10k watch its really not on.

+1 They're chancing their arm, though Panerai always have played fast and loose with their heritage. They're not alone in that mind you.

Like you I find the in house snobbery when it's taken to that level is a bit daft and can be much more about marketing, though I take your point about corners being cut, or not. Most brands, including the fancier Swiss brands bought in movements. One could argue Rolex time only movements were bought in, only they tied the company to them. Their chronos were sourced externally until recently enough. Omega did the same with Lemania for their chronographs but didn't tie them in so exclusively. Patek bought in base movements and gussied them up. Very nicely too. Zenith hung onto in house until the 70's. Longines were pretty much all in house until the 60's when they ditched their own chrono movements and sourced them externally. Heuer pre TAG were all bought in until they co developed the auto chrono. Oddly enough cheaper non Swiss brands were more likely to be "in house", LIP and the near throwaway French Mortima stuff as examples and the Soviet stuff of course. Seiko were and remain pretty much all in house. "In house" covers the range from cheap as chips pin pallet toy watches given away in christmas crackers to AP's fettled by Swiss pixies in some slyvan glade.

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729810#Comment_117729810

Depends what's drawing you to them Fitz .You have to go bigger than your normal watch range otherwise what's the point in getting a Panerai? So for you that's 44mm & up. Obviously ignore the Due range , there is one or two interesting watches there but unless its coming at less than 50% retail there's better Panerai's to buy.

Crown protector or not ?That decision leaves you into the Submersible & Luminor range or Radiomir. I think the Crown protector is more Panerai style but the 1st Panerai's were Radiomir so really its a Radiomir that's more original. I do think the Radiomir look more dressy / expensive but as you've got the expensive looking watches covered I would suggest the Luminor.

1950's case or Luminor ?Knowing your dislike of the Tudor chrono "slab " I would lean towards the 1950s but you don't really know until you try it on.

It goes without saying not to buy Panerai at list , min 20% discount and maybe more depending on the model.Used is fine but with the size of the watch majority of them will have bangs on them and that might put you off.

I reckon a nice €4k range Panerai would be a good beater watch to sit in your collection. It would be a good one for you to review as someone who is used to the more finer watches on the wrist.

When it comes to the movements , thats not what Panerai is about .Even when they asked Rolex for movement , Rolex got someone else to make it and stuck their name on it. Obviously selling an eta as in house is not on but spending €20k+ on a Panerai is not exactly sensible and anyone doing so I would say is looking at it or Hublot and probably don't care about the movement that much .But don't all watch companies exaggerate? My moonwatch has about as much in common with the one that went to the moon as I have in common with Neil Armstrong but Omega would have me believe Im only a few steps away from being an astronaut.