Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

Time

Fitz II wrote: »

Ah the old Alpha M trick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69QxJMkPjw

I lasted about 5 seconds and had to turn that off.

Considering this Hamilton Jazzmaster Skeleton that's on a second hand site in Vietnam where I live.

https://www.handheld.com.vn/threads/hamilton-semi-skeleton-used-only-watch.571686/

Would it be a good purchase for 290 euro?

893bet

Time wrote: »

I lasted about 5 seconds and had to turn that off.

I forced myself to watch it all just to make sure I never ever ever watch that channel again.

Fitz II

893bet wrote: »

I forced myself to watch it all just to make sure I never ever ever watch that channel again.

There is a big backlash at this vid as that Alpha M guy owns a lot of Rolex. He made excuses but he was known as a awful shill since then. Not saying our man timeless is doing shilling, only that he is trying to drive views buy being disingenuously positive in the comparison of a Seiko to his Rolex.

In his previous vid he was only talking about the confirmation bias video. The vid you watch after you have bought a watch to reassure yourself it was a good buy. He put 100 times more effort into assembling that video than Seiko did assembling the watch.

redlead

To be fair that Alpha Male channel is targeted at 15 year olds or else simpletons in their 20s. It is brutal stuff.

Lorddrakul

redlead wrote: »

To be fair that Alpha Male channel is targeted at 15 year olds or else simpletons in their 20s. It is brutal stuff.

I lasted about 10 seconds.

He is definitely channeling the "I'm a shouty man!" trope.

Doesn't matter what the message is, it is lost in the delivery.

Wibbs

Fitz II wrote: »

There is a big backlash at this vid as that Alpha M guy owns a lot of Rolex. He made excuses but he was known as a awful shill since then. Not saying our man timeless is doing shilling, only that he is trying to drive views buy being disingenuously positive in the comparison of a Seiko to his Rolex.

Driving views is the thing alright. Pride and pinion being the most obvious on that score. If he'd just gone down the road of saying this is a lot of watch for the money from a brand with a long and illustrious legacy in watch innovation, minus the comparisons, then game ball, because it is and they have. It didn't need the Rolex comparisons. Not so long ago on the horological front you could have made strong comparisons and come out wondering WTF on the Swiss brand side, but they've very much upped their game since then.

On odd thing with Seiko is if you compare their vintage with their current. If you hold a 70's "Captain Willard" in the hand and the modern reissue the 70's example feels like the slightly better watch. With other reissues or continuations from other brands you rarely feel that. EG a TAG Heuer Monaco feels twice the watch in the hand compared to a vintage Heuer Monaco. Same for a 70's Rolex Sub compared to a new one. The vintage would have a very cheap rattly bracelet and a movement that's extremely meh. Which makes sense considering how technology and manufacturing has improved over the years.

redlead

To be fair to Oisín, I know his ego is starting to lose the run of itself a bit and parts are cringey as someone alluded to above, but he's not saying that seiko are better than Rolex, he's just saying it's his favourite watch at the moment and that's easily believable. He's used to wearing expensive watches and is enjoying the ruggedness of the seiko. I don't think he's doing it for hits as he's blatantly demonitised several videos for music he's using. He's not a guy trying to make a living out of YouTube.

Cyclingtourist

Fitz II wrote: »

There is a big backlash at this vid as that Alpha M guy owns a lot of Rolex. He made excuses but he was known as a awful shill since then. Not saying our man timeless is doing shilling, only that he is trying to drive views buy being disingenuously positive in the comparison of a Seiko to his Rolex.

In his previous vid he was only talking about the confirmation bias video. The vid you watch after you have bought a watch to reassure yourself it was a good buy. He put 100 times more effort into assembling that video than Seiko did assembling the watch.

I watched the TTWC video again to make sure I didn't miss something and the only direct comparison I took from it was the Seiko silicone strap being more comfortable IHO to the one on his Yachtmaster.
He states quite clearly that he will accept minor faults on the $600 KT that he wouldn't on a more expensive watch, presumably referring to Rolex and Omega.
He doesn't make any comparisons regarding the 4R36 movement just says it's reliable and in-house, which it is.
He's a big guy who likes a big watch, something he has said often and this is his current beater that's getting a lot of wrist time at the moment.
Perhaps he did "put 100 times more effort into assembling that video than Seiko did assembling the watch" but so what?

Wibbs

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

He states quite clearly that he will accept minor faults on the $600 KT that he wouldn't on a more expensive watch, presumably referring to Rolex and Omega.
He doesn't make any comparisons regarding the 4R36 movement just says it's reliable and in-house, which it is.

It is and Seiko have been fully inhouse long before Rolex ever were, or any of the other Swiss brands for that matter. They designed and made their own movements, including chronographs and quartz and springdrive, digital and analogue, dials, cases, hands etc all in house. While kicking off a revolution in printing with Espon, because when they were the official timers for the 64 Olympics they wanted to print out the results from their timers. And they produced the most accurate mechanical movement in the history of the Swiss chronometer trials and made it a watch you could actually buy in the shops. And brought the first quartz watch to market on their own, while with the exception of Longines the Swiss had to do so as a conglomerate. And while they were doing that brought out one of the first automatic chronographs(which again the Swiss effort was a multicompany affair). By pretty much every metric of horology with the singular exception of the luxury brand acceptance angle Seiko blow Rolex completely into the weeds.

Perhaps he did "put 100 times more effort into assembling that video than Seiko did assembling the watch" but so what?

And the effort involved between manufacturing a 600 quid Seiko diver and a 8000 quid Rolex, or Omega diver is not nearly so wide as their price tags suggest.

Cyrus

redlead wrote: »

To be fair to Oisín, I know his ego is starting to lose the run of itself a bit and parts are cringey as someone alluded to above, but he's not saying that seiko are better than Rolex, he's just saying it's his favourite watch at the moment and that's easily believable. He's used to wearing expensive watches and is enjoying the ruggedness of the seiko. I don't think he's doing it for hits as he's blatantly demonitised several videos for music he's using. He's not a guy trying to make a living out of YouTube.

If he isn’t making money out of it then what is he at?

The only excuse I could think of for why someone would do that is to make a few quid.

It’s just embarrassing (nothing to do with the watch just the whole thing )

Cyclingtourist

Cyrus wrote: »

If he isn’t making money out of it then what is he at?

The only excuse I could think of for why someone would do that is to make a few quid.

It’s just embarrassing (nothing to do with the watch just the whole thing )

He is making money out of it between YT revenue (by all accounts low unless you flog it to death) and Patreon which is related. However whatever he's making monetarily is more than justified IMO by the quality of the videos he produces. They aren't regularly interrupted by ads except, as he explained in his previous one, where he used a copyrighted piece of music and YT consequently took control of the monetisation.
Caseback Watches' latest video is an example that's punctuated with ads even though it's just a Q&A with a brief review of a micro brand chrono. Tim is a guy I like and any music he uses is generally his own so it can't be a copyright issue.

So why does Oisin do it? What he has said is that he had thought of doing a watch blog but decided to do video, presumably partly because his daughter is studying it in Venice. Lots of people turn their hobby into something that might interest the public and not always with the expectation to make much money or even any money at all. I myself have written numerous online articles related to cycling history but never made a cent from them, or ever expected to.

Thirdfox

I heard that around 5k subscribers equals to around $150 from Youtube depending on how heavily you try to monetise the channel.

It's a real dilemma - most of the reviewers I speak to are doing this for fun, getting to see some watches before others, sometimes factories or larger microbrands will give them a free watch too - a lot of the "earnings" they make get plowed back into the channel as equipment purchases like a better microphone, camera etc. - it's a hobby and something that they enjoy doing, like fishing or cycling

The difficulty is when a channel/reviewer is really straddling the line of advertiser - or perhaps the modern term is "influencer". If a "reviewer" is saying to Sólás - "sure I can review your watch - it seems interesting, but 1) I need to get a watch afterwards, and 2) I need XYZ payment in cash" - but you know that this "reviewer" can get your product in front of around 7-8,000 people in 12 hours - is it worth the $1000 or would it be better to have it spent on ABlogToWatch paid advertorial or a traditional watch magazine...or Facebook ads? Because as we found out from Starlight campaign 1.0 - "natural" word of mouth isn't enough to get something funded when other brands are spending (tens of) thousands on advertising their wares in front of others.

I just wish these kinds of influencers would say plainly "I've been paid X amount to look at this watch and here are my thoughts" - because clearly when they are large enough to have over 100k subscribers they can leverage eyeballs onto products. Equally I could imagine that if these video influencers are saying that I'm being paid to review something they may end up losing their subscriber base.

NickShabazz does do it actually - he doesn't get paid in cash, but will state quite clearly if a knife manufacturer is giving him the knife afterwards (or asking for it to be returned) vs the times he buys the knife himself to review - his viewers still trust him to give an honest view of a product.

I think if Sólás works with "influencers" that require payment/product to do a "review" I would want to disclose that via Sólás' website - or perhaps I'll just keep a clear dividing line between reviews being unpaid reviews and advertisements being advertisements.

Frankly, if I'm paying someone to "review" my product I would have conditions as to what should be said/script editing rights - just like one would have with a ABTW advertorial for example. It's why I haven't tried this - the gut feeling of this just *feels* dodgy... though it's interesting to hear from my younger sister - the younger generation are expecting that people who "review" products are being given the product for free (but she was looking mainly at makeup reviews - where it would be understandable that a lipstick can't be returned) - I would put watches in together with cars - I don't think people who are doing car reviews are asking for the cars for free afterwards (but maybe they are paid? who knows...).

redlead

Cyrus wrote: »

If he isn’t making money out of it then what is he at?

The only excuse I could think of for why someone would do that is to make a few quid.
)

I would imagine the primary driver for his channel is a love of watches, an interest in filming and initially an outlet to do that with his daughter who is a film student. Obviously the channel generates revenue and I would imagine his goal is for that to cover his costs. Those travel videos are not cheap. He clearly has expensive tastes and YouTube would nowhere near fund that.

People have many motivations and inspirations beyond money.

redlead

Has anyone had any direct experience with formex watches? They've been impressing me for a while based on online reviews but I'm really liking their new Reef diver. It may appear expensive at about 1700 bucks but its COSC certified and the finishing looks excellent. I've never actually seen one in the flesh though and they are almost non existent on the used market. Have been contemplating an Oris Aquis or Longines Hydroconquest as a sort of quality beater but this is catching my eye. The yachtmaster style raised bezel is something I really like.

Thirdfox

No direct experience but they are well spoken of in the microbrand world (mentioned in the same breath as Zelos and the likes) - from what I hear you'll get superb service from them, but if you try to sell I'm not sure you'll be getting Rolex levels (or Omega levels) of value retention. I guess at 1700 it would be similar to Monta as another "expensive" microbrand - and it may be possible to get discounts if you sign up to newsletters etc.?

Fitz II

He didnt directly do the "This Seiko is better than a Rolex" that was in reference to Alpha M and he would brought up as the example of appealing to the low end of the market.

But while there is not direct comparison, for a guy that owns about 3 Omegas and 5 or 6 decent Rolex to say that a misaligned, bulbous Seiko with a uninspiring movement is his favourite has definite implications. The production was cheesy, and egocentric, he is pushing lifestyle as much as watches.

Cyclingtourist

Fitz II wrote: »

He didnt directly do the "This Seiko is better than a Rolex" that was in reference to Alpha M and he would brought up as the example of appealing to the low end of the market.

But while there is not direct comparison, for a guy that owns about 3 Omegas and 5 or 6 decent Rolex to say that a misaligned, bulbous Seiko with a uninspiring movement is his favourite has definite implications. The production was cheesy, and egocentric, he is pushing lifestyle as much as watches.

For a guy who has several Rolex and Omega watches to say "right now, this is my favourite watch" just means it's what he's into wearing at that moment in time.

Sometimes people just like to 'wear a watch' rather than wear something luxury that they'll be afraid of scratching and whatever it is that's their favourite at that moment.

I think he has a great lifestyle but I don't for one minute want to start buying expensive whiskey , cigars or rent an apartment in Venice. Maybe an airBnB for a week or so on a return visit.

Fitz II

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

For a guy who has several Rolex and Omega watches to say "right now, this is my favourite watch" just means it's what he's into wearing at that moment in time.

Sometimes people just like to 'wear a watch' rather than wear something luxury that they'll be afraid of scratching and whatever it is that's their favourite at that moment.

I think he has a great lifestyle but I don't for one minute want to start buying expensive whiskey , cigars or rent an apartment in Venice. Maybe an airBnB for a week or so on a return visit.

Yes I know that, but I dont believe him. I dont believe from watching every video he has ever done from start to finish that he is being genuine about the Seiko.

I think the lifestyle he portrays is a bit depressing rather than being aspirational but I can see how it might appeal to people, especially non Europeans.

Cyrus

redlead wrote: »

I would imagine the primary driver for his channel is a love of watches, an interest in filming and initially an outlet to do that with his daughter who is a film student. Obviously the channel generates revenue and I would imagine his goal is for that to cover his costs. Those travel videos are not cheap. He clearly has expensive tastes and YouTube would nowhere near fund that.

People have many motivations and inspirations beyond money.

Sure but what I’m saying is that he is embarrassing himself , so if he isn’t making money I don’t get why,

He could do the same thing without coming across the way he does if that’s what he gets his kicks from.

Sorry I don’t mean to offend any of you if you are friends with him or whatever , I have a very low tolerance cringe meter , if it’s makes him happy good luck to him.

banie01

Cyrus wrote: »

Sure but what I’m saying is that he is embarrassing himself , so if he isn’t making money I don’t get why,

He could do the same thing without coming across the way he does if that’s what he gets his kicks from.

But perhaps he isn't embarrassing himself.
Granted some may feel a bit morto for Oisín, Archie or any other shout opinionated bollox
But what if that's not who he actually is?
That's a character he plays and when the camera is off, he is a different bloke?

Much like Steve coogan and Alan Partridge?

I have no interest in the videos anyway and that Alpha M was painful.
But, it's all likely schtick to appeal to people thinking that's what success is?
Maybe?

Cyrus

banie01 wrote: »

But perhaps he isn't embarrassing himself.
Granted some may feel a bit morto for Oisín, Archie or any other shout opinionated bollox
But what if that's not who he actually is?
That's a character he plays and when the camera is off, he is a different bloke?

Much like Steve coogan and Alan Partridge?

I have no interest in the videos anyway and that Alpha M was painful.
But, it's all likely schtick to appeal to people thinking that's what success is?
Maybe?

Fair enough I shouldn’t project how I feel about videos like that onto anyone else !

banie01

Cyrus wrote: »

Fair enough I shouldn’t project how I feel about videos like that onto anyone else !

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.
I've tried watching a few of them Oisín in particular and just don't like them.
They aren't for me in content or tone.
Others are welcome to them tho, be fair boring if we were all just the same.

Fitz II

Cyrus wrote: »

Fair enough I shouldn’t project how I feel about videos like that onto anyone else !

Get a hold of yourself, the internet is not a place for tolerance and non judgmentalism.

I can get with Oisin on most things. I get past the sunglasses, the neck scarf etc.....but in this one he is crawling up his own hole, its like watching Zoolander and there is not a hint of irony or self deprecation.

Cyrus

Fitz II wrote: »

Get a hold of yourself, the internet is not a place for tolerance and non judgmentalism.

cnocbui

Irish lad who fancies he's James bond when he doesn't know the difference between a scarf and a cravat.

Cyclingtourist

Oisin showing off all the goodies sent by his fans.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3gxSsrqF3kM

unkel

It's funny that people get suspicious when your man says he likes a cheap Seiko. Surely, a sophisticated multilingual pan-European man with his collection of Rolex and Omega watches and his affluent semi-retired lifestyle in Venice could not possibly like a cheap Japanese watch? Surely he is only trolling and only making that vid so he gets money from it?

LOL!!!

Of course he just likes the big new Seiko diver. And so do I. The blue one that is, of course. Wouldn't fancy it on that Seiko rubber, seems ok at first feel but is not all that comfortable when you wear it longer time. He mustn't have that experience. I've gone off rubber a bit anyway. A good quality mesh like a Staib would be a nice choice for the King Turtle. Tempted to buy both.

Fitz II

unkel wrote: »

Of course he just likes the big new Seiko diver. And so do I. The blue one that is, of course. Wouldn't fancy it on that Seiko rubber, seems ok at first feel but is not all that comfortable when you wear it longer time. He mustn't have that experience. I've gone off rubber a bit anyway. A good quality mesh like a Staib would be a nice choice for the King Turtle. Tempted to buy both.

Thats all true, but is it his favourite? Would it be yours? I like my SKX and its cheap enough to keep around without guilt. It would be neither mine, yours or Oisins favourite.

The thumbnail....clickbait. He has mocked before these thumbnails. And yes I know a question mark means the answer is no. Timestamp 1:53 in the vid he say "I am going to give you ten reasons why I think this might be the best watch out there on the market right now" which is of course an absurd thing to say. Very next video back in a Rolex. We all know those rubber straps are terrible but he praises them. The intro and outro are nearly 4 minutes in length on a 12 minute vid....handy that bring it over the ten minutes mark which is google ad revenue gold. And at the end he does the like and subscribe think he said he would never do...through Lenny but still spends the time doing it.

This is not the Oisin we know and like, this is sell out Youtube Oisin.

Fitz is not suspicious, Fitz is disappoint

Rootsblower

Oisin reminds me of the guy from “Jazz Club”

https://youtu.be/MsQYzpOHpik

Maybe it’s just me