Dead bodies left on trolleys in corridors.

ChikiChiki

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I'd be the first person to oppose privatisation of our health services, I would absolutely oppose that 110%.

I'm merely commenting that people are absolutely correct to point out that this shouldn't be happening in a supposedly first world country, with an apparently booming economy and near full employment, and that someone needs to be held accountable.

Plenty of ****ing apologists in the thread shooting down any suggestions of improvements or criticism of those in charge.

Thats why it will be so hard to change things. There is a resistance.

Spanish Eyes

smurgen wrote: »

This is it.no matter what any arrangement would have been better than what happened.the situation was not managed.
I also wonder what the risk of infection etc would be from bodily fluids from a corpse? Can hardly be good in a place where there's seriously ill patients.

I bet no one in management would ever tolerate their deceased loved ones being treated like this, but for the peasants, well it is ok, nothing we can do, blame the Minister. Honestly it is beyond belief.

Simple to contract it out. But no one cares, or is capable of making a decision for the greater good anymore it seems.

At the same time, a part of my brain is asking why families tolerated this? Maybe it was confined to those who didn't have anyone to speak up for them, which makes it even worse IMV.

Fr_Dougal

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Plenty of ****ing apologists in the thread shooting down any suggestions of improvements or criticism of those in charge.

Thats why it will be so hard to change things. There is a resistance.

Plenty of people blaming the wrong people on this thread.

What happened is an utter disgrace. The board of management and the HSE should be questioned why they sat on their holes and didn’t spend the money allocated for a new morgue. After that, they should be asked why they didn’t put a temporary measure in place to make sure this didn’t happen. It’s not acceptable that it took consultants to write an open letter to have this made public.

Varta

The problems with the health service will never be solved as long as we have a corrupt private system running in tandem. It is corrupt from top to bottom, not least because it steals from the less well off to fund private health care for those who can afford it through generous tax breaks on premiums. Make private health care fully private - no tax breaks - and the people returning to the public health service will demand the changes needed.

Spanish Eyes

Varta wrote: »

The problems with the health service will never be solved as long as we have a corrupt private system running in tandem. It is corrupt from top to bottom, not least because it steals from the less well off to fund private health care for those who can afford it through generous tax breaks on premiums. Make private health care fully private - no tax breaks - and the people returning to the public health service will demand the changes needed.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land my friend. Even if the measly tax breaks were withdrawn, those who can afford it will still have private health insurance.

Surely you mean the opposite though, those who have PHI take some of the strain off the public system anyway.

Varta

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You are living in cloud cuckoo land my friend. Even if the measly tax breaks were withdrawn, those who can afford it will still have private health insurance.

Surely you mean the opposite though, those who have PHI take some of the strain off the public system anyway.

Many a serious illness ends up being treated in the public system... after the queue has been jumped. If private really was private few could afford it. As I said, it is corrupt from top to bottom. I have no issue with a private health system as long as it is totally removed from the public system and not subsidised by those who cannot afford to have it.

Spanish Eyes

Varta wrote: »

Many a serious illness ends up being treated in the public system... after the queue has been jumped. If private really was private few could afford it. As I said, it is corrupt from top to bottom. I have no issue with a private health system as long as it is totally removed from the public system and not subsidised by those who cannot afford to have it.

I was referring to elective issues. How long is the waiting list now for such issues in the public system?

What corruption are you talking about? I do realise that A+E in public hospitals is where everyone goes in an emergency situation, but hey, these people have either paid their PRSI or are on a medical card. There is still a daily charge for everyone, capped I know. So unless you have a medical card you are in effect a private health consumer in emergency situations really.

branie2

Scandalous! :mad:

MadYaker

Probably worth noting that this was only in the morgue and not the entire hospital. Horrific though. No respect for the deceased and also horrible for the people who have to work there. You'd have to wonder what's going on in the HSE. These 4 doctors wrote to their regional HSE manager last october and nothing was done about it since. Not enough space in the fridge apparently.

Corruptedmorals

The board of management of Waterford need to be investigated and sacked if an issue this serious when flagged with them resulted in them ignoring it instead of immediately allocating emergency funds for temporary storage and getting a date for the new facility set in stone. Appalling.

The HSE is absolutely overloaded with managers and boards as it has always been but there's a lot of people in this thread lumping everyone in together. HSE clerical does not mean rolling around an office doing nothing. The front line clerical staff who are the ones dealing with abuse over the A&E waiting times, the 3-4 year waiting lists which are now standard in every speciality instead of the exception, cancelling of operations because there are no beds and the constant cancelling of clinics because there are too many patients and not enough doctors are NOT overpaid wasters. Many are grade 3 which is 22k and are not even on permanent pensionable contracts. Sure they were using job bridge for years. Plenty of hospitals are seriously understaffed for front line clerical.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At the same time, a part of my brain is asking why families tolerated this? Maybe it was confined to those who didn't have anyone to speak up for them, which makes it even worse IMV.

This is what I’m wondering, how has somebody not complained publicly about not being able to see their loved one in an open coffin, because one or two people are apt to do this is such circumstances? With limited cold drawers, what was the criterion for selection of the corpses to go in/be left out? Obviously if an autopsy was pending then it would be imperative to keep the remains cold, and certain religions bury as soon as remains are available so these factors might apply at a given time.

ToddyDoody

Do you want it done right or do you want it done cheap?

DoozerT6

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

The board of management of Waterford need to be investigated and sacked if an issue this serious when flagged with them resulted in them ignoring it instead of immediately allocating emergency funds for temporary storage and getting a date for the new facility set in stone. Appalling.

The HSE is absolutely overloaded with managers and boards as it has always been but there's a lot of people in this thread lumping everyone in together. HSE clerical does not mean rolling around an office doing nothing. The front line clerical staff who are the ones dealing with abuse over the A&E waiting times, the 3-4 year waiting lists which are now standard in every speciality instead of the exception, cancelling of operations because there are no beds and the constant cancelling of clinics because there are too many patients and not enough doctors are NOT overpaid wasters. Many are grade 3 which is 22k and are not even on permanent pensionable contracts. Sure they were using job bridge for years. Plenty of hospitals are seriously understaffed for front line clerical.

This. It's slightly off-topic for the thread, but I think it needs saying. I seriously think that people don't really know what clerical staff actually do, and they think we are just there to flit around drinking coffee and tell you to 'take a ticket and sit over there' when you turn up for say, an outpatient appointment. Here's the thing: The doctors do the actual MEDICAL stuff, for which they are highly trained and work very hard. Everything else - literally EVERYTHING - is done by someone in admin. You turn up, are seen by the doctor who examines you, perhaps hands you a prescription and tells you they'll see you back in say, six months. The doctor then (and this may surprise some people!) promptly forgets about you and moves on to the next patient. The admin staff then take over and do the following:
- Getting your chart (and perhaps 50 other charts!) before clinic, ensuring you turn up for your appointment and are seen as promptly as possible, (or making sure you are followed up in some way if you don't turn up),
- Making sure the doctor dictates any letters necessary about your care when clinic is over (this can involve literally harassing the very busy doctors about this, as it is an important part of your care and sometimes gets put on the back burner a bit), ensuring those letters are typed and sent to whoever they are meant for.
- Making sure you are put back on a waiting list for a follow-up appointment date if the doctor has indicated that you need to come back again, and making sure a letter for this new date is sent out to you.
- Making sure the doctor has done out referral forms for any tests you may need prior to your next appointment, sending them to the relevant departments, and ensuring those tests are done (as many as possible at least) before you come back.
- Dealing with phone queries from patients about anything and everything, and trying to find a doctor to answer their question if needed. Remember a lot of these patients are ill, frightened, confused, elderly, and can take a long time on the phone looking for information or reassurance while the rest of your work is piling up around your ears.
- Dealing with the public on a daily basis in a hospital setting where emotions can frequently run high. I don't think I need to elaborate further on that. This is EXTREMELY stressful at times for staff, even for those who are well used to it.
- Quite honestly, that's not even half of it, and the AMOUNT of actual paperwork/admin work for each person is quite significant. Multiply all of the above by maybe 30-50 people a day and come back to me and tell me that clerical staff (not higher-level Management staff) stand around scratching their ar$es all day.

storker

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I never said all. And yeah I have told them how bad they were when I was abandoned in a corner in A&E when I needed urgent treatment.

The rot is the whole way through the health service, including the "virtuous" frontline.

Hmmm...and do you have full information about who they were busy dealing with at the time? Perhaps people who were in such a bad away that they couldn't tell the staff how bad or good they were? No that can't be it, they must all be useless because they didn't get to you quickly enough.

A&E departments often get people bitching and moaning about the level of service while the staff on the other side of the doors were actually tied up trying to save a life.

And if you're saying the rot is "all the way through", then yes you are saying "all".

storker

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Unlikely. When was the last time you've seen the "front line"? They're every bit as useless as those that manage them.

I saw them two years ago when I was a patient for nearly a week. I saw how busy they get, how hard they work and the sh1te they have to put up with from selfish jerks.

Plumbthedepths

DoozerT6 wrote:

This. It's slightly off-topic for the thread, but I think it needs saying. I seriously think that people don't really know what clerical staff actually do, and they think we are just there to flit around drinking coffee and tell you to 'take a ticket and sit over there' when you turn up for say, an outpatient appointment. Here's the thing: The doctors do the actual MEDICAL stuff, for which they are highly trained and work very hard. Everything else - literally EVERYTHING - is done by someone in admin. You turn up, are seen by the doctor who examines you, perhaps hands you a prescription and tells you they'll see you back in say, six months. The doctor then (and this may surprise some people!) promptly forgets about you and moves on to the next patient. The admin staff then take over and do the following: - Getting your chart (and perhaps 50 other charts!) before clinic, ensuring you turn up for your appointment and are seen as promptly as possible, (or making sure you are followed up in some way if you don't turn up), - Making sure the doctor dictates any letters necessary about your care when clinic is over (this can involve literally harassing the very busy doctors about this, as it is an important part of your care and sometimes gets put on the back burner a bit), ensuring those letters are typed and sent to whoever they are meant for. - Making sure you are put back on a waiting list for a follow-up appointment date if the doctor has indicated that you need to come back again, and making sure a letter for this new date is sent out to you. - Making sure the doctor has done out referral forms for any tests you may need prior to your next appointment, sending them to the relevant departments, and ensuring those tests are done (as many as possible at least) before you come back. - Dealing with phone queries from patients about anything and everything, and trying to find a doctor to answer their question if needed. Remember a lot of these patients are ill, frightened, confused, elderly, and can take a long time on the phone looking for information or reassurance while the rest of your work is piling up around your ears. - Dealing with the public on a daily basis in a hospital setting where emotions can frequently run high. I don't think I need to elaborate further on that. This is EXTREMELY stressful at times for staff, even for those who are well used to it. - Quite honestly, that's not even half of it, and the AMOUNT of actual paperwork/admin work for each person is quite significant. Multiply all of the above by maybe 30-50 people a day and come back to me and tell me that clerical staff (not higher-level Management staff) stand around scratching their ar$es all day.

A close friend of mine works in admin in a local hospital. According to her the amount of arse scratchers and clock watchers is unbelievable, but untouchable. She is regularly stressed by her workload.

Squatter

storker wrote: »

I saw them two years ago when I was a patient for nearly a week. I saw how busy they get, how hard they work and the sh1te they have to put up with from selfish jerks.

The selfish jerks in question being, presumably, your fellow patients.

elperello

Well here we are at the end of day two.
Still no announcement of a temporary fix for this terrible situation.

storker

Squatter wrote: »

The selfish jerks in question being, presumably, your fellow patients.

Yes...just some of them, obviously...what's your point?

Nekarsulm

elperello wrote: »

Well here we are at the end of day two.
Still no announcement of a temporary fix for this terrible situation.

It was reported yesterday than construction of a new morgue was to start in November next.
The hospital manager dosent want a temporary solution , he is content to use the corpses as a means of getting funding.
He rejected mobile refrigerated storage yesterday, on public radio. (Pat Kenny , Newstalk, about 10.20am)

elperello

Nekarsulm wrote: »

It was reported yesterday than construction of a new morgue was to start in November next.
The hospital manager dosent want a temporary solution , he is content to use the corpses as a means of getting funding.
He rejected mobile refrigerated storage yesterday, on public radio. (Pat Kenny , Newstalk, about 10.20am)

Thanks for that clarification.
Both the manager and the minister should be removed.

MrMusician18

storker wrote: »

Hmmm...and do you have full information about who they were busy dealing with at the time? Perhaps people who were in such a bad away that they couldn't tell the staff how bad or good they were? No that can't be it, they must all be useless because they didn't get to you quickly enough.

A&E departments often get people bitching and moaning about the level of service while the staff on the other side of the doors were actually tied up trying to save a life.

And if you're saying the rot is "all the way through", then yes you are saying "all".

Pretty sure standing around chatting about the new years party wasn't essential life saving work.

I'm sick of this nonsense line that is put out that all medics, nurses are all hard working and virtuous while all admin staff are bloat that's being carried by the system. It's like there are no lazy nurses or doctors, but really that are no different than any other public service profession. On my night in a&e it was obvious that some nurses and doctors were being carried by their colleagues.

wexandproud

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Pretty sure standing around chatting about the new years party wasn't essential life saving work.

I'm sick of this nonsense line that is put out that all medics, nurses are all hard working and virtuous while all admin staff are bloat that's being carried by the system. It's like there are no lazy nurses or doctors, but really that are no different than any other public service profession. On my night in a&e it was obvious that some nurses and doctors were being carried by their colleagues.

100% correct . there was a thread on here last year about vets being called DR or something . On that thread i explained how a vet had saved my wife's like and i won't go in to it all again except to say that as herself was lying in triage the vet , our son was with her , the doctors and nurses sat with their feet on the desks discussing their weekends and holiday activities . Later he wrote to the head of hse and complained and the reply was in short , '' they would review their procedure '' . Which they did , and they even made changes . The change was , the doctor on duty signs of as ''doctor on duty '' and not as Dr xxxxxx .
While i am quiet sure their are some hard working staff in the HSE , laziness is rife through the whole organisation from the top right down

elperello

Taken from a report in yesterday's Irish Times.

Unclear what the "interim measures" are but at least it seems some progress is being made.



"A statement from the Department of Health said management “assured” Mr Harris that they will undertake “interim measures” while waiting for a replacement mortuary building."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/harris-says-construction-of-new-waterford-mortuary-to-begin-by-end-of-year-1.3870202

Nekarsulm

elperello wrote: »

Thanks for that clarification.
Both the manager and the minister should be removed.

That will only happen by promoting them....

Floppybits

elperello wrote: »

Taken from a report in yesterday's Irish Times.

Unclear what the "interim measures" are but at least it seems some progress is being made.



"A statement from the Department of Health said management “assured” Mr Harris that they will undertake “interim measures” while waiting for a replacement mortuary building."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/harris-says-construction-of-new-waterford-mortuary-to-begin-by-end-of-year-1.3870202

Interim measures, sure thats only another way of saying we will do F**k All till the new building is finished.

Ush1

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Do you want it done right or do you want it done cheap?

The HSE is anything but cheap.

Zorya

Since hearing this story it has been on my mind a lot. It beggars belief, really. It is awful for the families of the dead, but also for others. What about the poor hospital porters or cleaning staff who have to move or handle the decomposing bodies when they are finally dealt with or put in a coffin, clean up the body fluids that drip to the floor from the bloating corpses and wash down the trolley for the next person's use? How much do these people get paid an hour? Can't get my head around how undignified and appalling this whole thing is.

elperello

Floppybits wrote: »

Interim measures, sure thats only another way of saying we will do F**k All till the new building is finished.

I fear you may be right if they can get away with it.

esme95

Pissartist wrote: »

The problem is there's too much management, and most are unable to do their jobs, or are job share who couldn't really care.

The main problem with the HSE is that there are too many clerical workers. We need more highly qualified healthcare professionals.