How long before Irish reunification?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

So why is the combined SF/SDLP vote falling then?

Cos people have moved to alliance. And the inbreds that vote DUP will do so despite all the evidence in front of them it’s a self destructively awful way to go and only ever holds NI in its dark past.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

All I've established is that fh and blanch will vote against a UI. That's about it.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

All I've established is that fh and blanch will vote against a UI. That's about it.

And they want to force kids into nondenominational schools and take their religion away from them.

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

And they want to force kids into nondenominational schools and take their religion away from them.

In some vain hope that it will fix a statlet that was set up and created to be 'sectarian' until it went up in flames.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Cos people have moved to alliance. And the inbreds that vote DUP will do so despite all the evidence in front of them it’s a self destructively awful way to go and only ever holds NI in its dark past.

Inbreds? You could say the very same about Sinn Fein voters.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Inbreds? You could say the very same about Sinn Fein voters.

That was actually a typo I didn’t catch it.
Bloody autocucumber.
Apologies all.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

blanch152 wrote: »

So don’t blame some 100-year old event for the disgusting nature of the DUP and SF.

The north was set up as a Protestant ethno-state - the current religious based schism is a direct consequence of that and your attempts to draw parallels between the inherent sectarianism of the DUP with SF is hilariously transparent.

As for the threat in the second half of your post, the idea that violent nationalists will target people in the South if they reject a united Ireland is wishful thinking.

The only people who mentioned violence is you and your friend Facehugger there. And if you think a rejection of a UI will be a problem from 'up there' then you're fooling yourself.

That problem becomes a truly all-Ireland one especially if there's a pro-UI vote in the north and rejection in the south. Oh what a Pandora's can of worms that would open up.

They are more likely to cause trouble if a united Ireland is agreed because their lucrative criminal smuggling rings will be hit.

Yeah sure. In your bizarro hate-based self-constructed reality the unification of two jurisdictions and one policing system makes the current border problem worse.

It's difficult to deal with the level of self-delusion you express.

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That problem becomes a truly all-Ireland one especially if there's a pro-UI vote in the north and rejection in the south. Oh what a Pandora's can of worms that would open up.
.

I'll let you into a little secret. Even the most hardened Shinners know it'd be rejected in the ROI - and not just by a little either.

There'll never be a vote.

Best to keep the whole '20 year timeframe' thing as a moveable feast. It keeps the worms in the can.;)

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The north was set up as a Protestant ethno-state - the current religious based schism is a direct consequence of that and your attempts to draw parallels between the inherent sectarianism of the DUP with SF is hilariously transparent.

It is rather fabulous how a blind eye can be turned to years of British backed Unionist sectarianism in every institution/agency of the statlet, from housing to education and to the security forces.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'll let you into a little secret. Even the most hardened Shinners know it'd be rejected in the ROI - and not just by a little either.

Your crystal ball is as polished as your political nous i.e. it's pretty dull.

There'll never be a vote.

Is that the same 'NEVER' Paisley used? Because that's a 'never' that has a short shelf life.

Best to keep the whole '20 year timeframe' thing as a moveable feast. It keeps the worms in the can.;)

20 years is nothing, it took hundreds to get to where we are. See this UI thing is bigger than me and certainly bigger than you and people with your views. This state is effectively transitory with a view to an all-Ireland united country with the British state out of our affairs, a UI is in the DNA of this country and its people.

This issue isn't going away.

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

20 years is nothing, it took hundreds to get to where we are. See this UI thing is bigger than me and certainly bigger than you and people with your views. This state is effectively transitory with a view to an all-Ireland united country with the British state out of our affairs, a UI is in the DNA of this country and its people.

It must be terribly frustrating for you that people with my views hold the high ground.

Our transitory State predates you and will outlast you.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This issue isn't going away.

Be sure and let me know when to expect it. I'm gathering the golaposts have been moved further than 20 years away

Stick with the muttered threats sunshine - that seems to be your speciality.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Can’t have a reasoned debate with this crap And constant petty name calling. Reported.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The north was set up as a Protestant ethno-state - the current religious based schism is a direct consequence of that and your attempts to draw parallels between the inherent sectarianism of the DUP with SF is hilariously transparent.



The only people who mentioned violence is you and your friend Facehugger there. And if you think a rejection of a UI will be a problem from 'up there' then you're fooling yourself.

That problem becomes a truly all-Ireland one especially if there's a pro-UI vote in the north and rejection in the south. Oh what a Pandora's can of worms that would open up.



Yeah sure. In your bizarro hate-based self-constructed reality the unification of two jurisdictions and one policing system makes the current border problem worse.

It's difficult to deal with the level of self-delusion you express.

If veiled threats are the only hope of persuading people to vote for a united Ireland, we have reached a new low.

Sectarianism is continued by people who want to continue it. It takes bravery to take the steps to end sectarianism, but all they want to do is to hang on to their religious schools.

maccored

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'll let you into a little secret. Even the most hardened Shinners know it'd be rejected in the ROI - and not just by a little either.

you sir, are just a gem. the most improbable thing is you actually knowing what a shinner 'knows'. very entertaining. keep it up.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

If veiled threats are the only hope of persuading people to vote for a united Ireland, we have reached a new low.

Sectarianism is continued by people who want to continue it. It takes bravery to take the steps to end sectarianism, but all they want to do is to hang on to their religious schools.

Several in fact numerous times in this very thread you said there’d be a return to violence in a UI.

Are they threats?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

It must be terribly frustrating for you that people with my views hold the high ground.

Start a political party that has a vision for a separatist pro-partition state and see how far it takes you - don't forget that you will be aligning yourselves with the DUP. That'll play well with the couple of thousand oddballs who'd vote for it.

Our transitory State predates you and will outlast you.

It's a shame, for you, that our current state is made up of a majority of people who want this issue settled in a way you don't.

Be sure and let me know when to expect it. I'm gathering the golaposts have been moved further than 20 years away

I've already stated that I believe a UI is at least three border polls away if they were held roughly every seven years.

See I want this issue sorted for future generations while you, aping unionists in the north, are only concerned with sticking it to people you disagree with in the here-and-now.

This is why the DUP have found themselves in the utter mess they are in and people like you have no vision except stasis - you should set up franchise for the DUP.

[smiley-winky-face]

Beasty

30-40 years

I'm closing this thread for a short while - I need to sort this and another one out. Normal service will hopefully resumed shortly, but I'm not guaranteeing you will all be able to post here again

Beasty

30-40 years

OK, I'm re-opening it. No sanctions have been issued, which means some of you are very fortunate

Going forward we will not be so generous, so please keep the discussion civil. Attack the post, not the poster. If you have a problem with a post or poster report it. Do not state here you are reporting it though - that's essentially trying to force a moderator's hand, and will be treated as backseat modding

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The north was set up as a Protestant ethno-state - the current religious based schism is a direct consequence of that and your attempts to draw parallels between the inherent sectarianism of the DUP with SF is hilariously transparent.



The only people who mentioned violence is you and your friend Facehugger there. And if you think a rejection of a UI will be a problem from 'up there' then you're fooling yourself.

That problem becomes a truly all-Ireland one especially if there's a pro-UI vote in the north and rejection in the south. Oh what a Pandora's can of worms that would open up.



Yeah sure. In your bizarro hate-based self-constructed reality the unification of two jurisdictions and one policing system makes the current border problem worse.

It's difficult to deal with the level of self-delusion you express.

This is NEVER going to happen. If the North vote for reunification the South will follow.

It's not even worth entertaining as an idea.

The whole State is built upon eventual reunification.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is NEVER going to happen. If the North vote for reunification the South will follow.

It's not even worth entertaining as an idea.

The whole State is built upon eventual reunification.

Think the GFA says theyre to be held the same day. And if it’s a no in one and a yes in the other it’s reheld in seven years. And every seven years until it passes.

But agreed the whole function Of it is to bring about unification.

The Brits are like the Vatican. They play the long long long game.

They’ve never had any interest in NI. The whole era of the troubles set unification back in many ways.

I’d be interested to see the response of those here among us when it happens. Do they hate a United ireland or what it means?

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Think the GFA says theyre to be held the same day. And if it’s a no in one and a yes in the other it’s reheld in seven years. And every seven years until it passes.

But agreed the whole function Of it is to bring about unification.

The Brits are like the Vatican. They play the long long long game.

They’ve never had any interest in NI. The whole era of the troubles set unification back in many ways.

I’d be interested to see the response of those here among us when it happens. Do they hate a United ireland or what it means?

I can see a lot of British politicians warmly encouraging unity tbh. I also see British public opinion welcome it. We are almost there on that one.
The rest of the EU will be actively for it, as it solves a major issue for it, from a selfish point of view.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

blanch152 wrote: »

If veiled threats

What threats? The only threat I've spoken to is the threat of political instability. Why are you trying to implicate me in threatening violence?

We've had enough trouble to do us for a thousand years and I want nothing to do with any violence especially when it's internecine.

markodaly

On the issue of educational segregation, the facts are very clear on this.

https://www.thenation.com/article/northern-ireland-integration-schools-lagan/

Segregation in education is one of the biggest and most enduring legacies of Northern Ireland’s troubled past. According to the most recent public data, 
93 percent of the province’s children attend segregated schools—that is, schools that overwhelmingly educate children from only a Catholic or a Protestant background

The damage this does is incalculable. It is possible for children to reach age 18 without having friendships or any real interaction with someone from the other community. In a deeply divided society emerging from 40 years of violent conflict, reinforcing the divisions of the past forestalls peace and reconciliation. Twenty years on from the Good Friday Agreement—the keystone of Northern Ireland’s peace process—
51 percent of people in Northern Ireland, according to a recent poll, reported having few or no friends from the other side of the religious divide. Among 18-to-34-year-olds, the figure was even more worryingly high, at 58 percent. Academic research proves the obvious: Integrated education reduces prejudice, increases children’s understanding of diversity, and helps nurture and improve community relations.

A decent article on the subject. It seems those schools that do want to integrate do so because of parents and the grass roots. But as the article mentioned there are many headwinds and very little poltiical or governmental support.

If NI is to become a normal non-sectarian society, then de-segregating and integrating schools should be the number one prority, and that may mean a big carrot and stick approach.

The 'choice' debate is a non-sequiter. The US government didnt give white parents the 'choice' to a school that 'choose' to not admit black kids. In other words, if the school was a public school, it had to admit EVERYONE regardless of race and religion.
Withdrawing state funding from NI religious schools who fail to integrate may soften their cough a little.

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Think the GFA says theyre to be held the same day. And if it’s a no in one and a yes in the other it’s reheld in seven years. And every seven years until it passes.

But agreed the whole function Of it is to bring about unification.

The Brits are like the Vatican. They play the long long long game.

They’ve never had any interest in NI. The whole era of the troubles set unification back in many ways.

I’d be interested to see the response of those here among us when it happens. Do they hate a United ireland or what it means?

The GFA does not say that they are held on the same day. Neither does it say that they will be held every seven years, rather it says that a minimum of seven years between votes will be required. If, for example, the first such vote is defeated 60-40 despite a majority of nationalist parties in the Assembly, the SOS may decide that twenty years need to pass before another referendum.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can see a lot of British politicians warmly encouraging unity tbh. I also see British public opinion welcome it. We are almost there on that one.
The rest of the EU will be actively for it, as it solves a major issue for it, from a selfish point of view.

Of course they would. Wash their hands finally of their ugly brutal history. And the EU would be all on board no question.
Last poll held on Britain on a UI See attached

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Think the GFA says theyre to be held the same day. And if it’s a no in one and a yes in the other it’s reheld in seven years. And every seven years until it passes.

But agreed the whole function Of it is to bring about unification.

The Brits are like the Vatican. They play the long long long game.

They’ve never had any interest in NI. The whole era of the troubles set unification back in many ways.

I’d be interested to see the response of those here among us when it happens. Do they hate a United ireland or what it means?

People need to start reading the GFA.

No where is there any statement that polls have to happen on the same day.

I don't know why that needs to keep being brought up. Not only is it a nonsense, it also makes no logistical sense.

If the North vote no to a UI. Then a Southern poll is moot. So why hold it.

Anyway, can we set that SF at Westminster please.

Secondly, a poll doesn't have to be held every 7 years. It just can't be held again within 7 years of the previous one.

In fact it doesn't lay out any of the logistics required for the Republic to accede to the result of the NI referendum, other than it must be decided by the people of Ireland (island) alone.

There could be an assumption made that by voting for the GFA we have given permission to a UI by consent of NI deciding; we're just waiting around essentially!

GFA wrote:

“it is for the people of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a United Ireland, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland”.

...exactly...

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sectarianism in the northern statelet is a consequence of partition not the other way round - some of you have a child-like relationship with historic sequencing.

Ironic, seeing as there was plenty of sectarian violence in the north long before parition.

Partition just gave it an offical venner.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

On the issue of educational segregation, the facts are very clear on this.

https://www.thenation.com/article/northern-ireland-integration-schools-lagan/




A decent article on the subject. It seems those schools that do want to integrate do so because of parents and the grass roots. But as the article mentioned there are many headwinds and very little poltiical or governmental support.

If NI is to become a normal non-sectarian society, then de-segregating and integrating schools should be the number one prority, and that may mean a big carrot and stick approach.

The 'choice' debate is a non-sequiter. The US government didnt give white parents the 'choice' to a school that 'choose' to not admit black kids. In other words, if the school was a public school, it had to admit EVERYONE regardless of race and religion.
Withdrawing state funding from NI religious schools who fail to integrate may soften their cough a little.

'Forcing' people to change rarely works.

Invest properly in 'choice' is a much better way forward in a religiously sensitive environment.

Driving people into cul de sacs is totally the wrong way to go.

And BTW, nobody suggested religiously controlled schools are a good idea, they are generally a bad idea anywhere IMO, as I am not religious.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

People need to start reading the GFA.

No where is there any statement that polls have to happen on the same day.

I don't know why that needs to keep being brought up. Not only is it a nonsense, it also makes no logistical sense.

If the North vote no to a UI. Then a Southern poll is moot. So why hold it.

Anyway, can we set that SF at Westminster please.

Secondly, a poll doesn't have to be held every 7 years. It just can't be held again within 7 years of the previous one.

In fact it doesn't lay out any of the logistics required for the Republic to accede to the result of the NI referendum, other than it must be decided by the people of Ireland (island) alone.

There could be an assumption made that by voting for the GFA we have given permission to a UI by consent of NI deciding; we're just waiting around essentially!



...exactly...

That’s why they’ll be hold on the same day.

If it were at different times the outcome could be rendered moot by conflicting results.


Speaking of nonsense

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

blanch152 wrote: »

The GFA does not say that they are held on the same day. Neither does it say that they will be held every seven years, rather it says that a minimum of seven years between votes will be required. If, for example, the first such vote is defeated 60-40 despite a majority of nationalist parties in the Assembly, the SOS may decide that twenty years need to pass before another referendum.

Thanks buddeh. (this one time)

---

Also the SoS won't make a negative decision and put a timeline on the next vote. They can only decide in the positive, ie. "We should hold a vote because of the circumstance". That could well happen in about 20 years after the first one, but that's not how it would come about. But your sentiment is probably correct.