Average Wage of Provincial Players

patoh1

Was speaking to a friend of mine at the weekend who works for Connacht. Reckons their average wage there is now close to €150,000 a year, excluding academy players.

I would have been of the opinion that one play (bundee) would have been on that sort of money.

How much funding does the irfu provide to the provinces? Those average figures seem even excessive for Leinster or Munster.

Dog Botherer

Dave_The_Sheep

The guy is apparently asking an honest question. That's a **** response man.

stephen_n

patoh1 wrote: »

Was speaking to a friend of mine at the weekend who works for Connacht. Reckons their average wage there is now close to €150,000 a year, excluding academy players.

I would have been of the opinion that one play (bundee) would have been on that sort of money.

How much funding does the irfu provide to the provinces? Those average figures seem even excessive for Leinster or Munster.

Highest and lowest, an average of 150,000 for a squad of 30 is 4,500,000. Even at 40 senior contracted players it only 6,000,000. I think and it’s open to correction but Leinsters running costs are supposed to be 8-10 million?

Former Observer

Anything between one hundred and one billion dollars. Less if your mane and hooves need regular care.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

Highest and lowest, an average of 150,000 for a squad of 30 is 4,500,000. Even at 40 senior contracted players it only 6,000,000. I think and it’s open to correction but Leinsters running costs are supposed to be 8-10 million?

Running costs hardly equals players wages

armchaircoach

sydthebeat wrote: »

Running costs hardly equals players wages

Correct. And the highest paid players will be those on central contracts, so won't come out of that budget anyway.

Squidgy Black

Basically OP, nobody knows other than the players and those inside the IRFU. Player salary's aren't published anywhere, and aren't leaked in the media like they tend to be with marquee signings in England or France. There's speculation in the media around central contracts generally, but nobody knows the real figure and what way the contract is structured.

In fact, sometimes it's not even made clear how long the players contract is for.

prawnsambo

And there's also sponsorship. For example, most senior Leinster players are on a sponsorship deal with car distributors. JvdF with Spirit Land Rover, James Lowe with Nissan, Garry Ringrose with Audi etc.

swiwi_

What we do know is that St James Ryan plays for free “tis for the love of the game”. Is there nothing this man isn’t capable of?

siltirocker

In an interview with Sky Sports in Winter 2009 or Spring 2010 John Muldoon said that at Connacht the average (uncapped internationally) player on their 2nd contract as a pro (i.e. minimum 2 years as a pro) would be on just over 100k.

I imagine that has increased largely since. So I imagine the 150k is probably close.

It's also no big secret that Bundee Aki's first Connacht contract was for 300k.

evil_seed

^^ This

stephen_n

armchaircoach wrote: »

Correct. And the highest paid players will be those on central contracts, so won't come out of that budget anyway.

No but if the wages of players are 6 and the overall costs are 8-10 that’s up to 4 million to cover the other costs.

arsebiscuits1

International caps sky rockets your salary.

But any player who is uncapped internationally wouldn't be hitting north of 100k until their late 20s at best

highgiant1985

patoh1 wrote: »

Was speaking to a friend of mine at the weekend who works for Connacht. Reckons their average wage there is now close to €150,000 a year, excluding academy players.

I would have been of the opinion that one play (bundee) would have been on that sort of money.

How much funding does the irfu provide to the provinces? Those average figures seem even excessive for Leinster or Munster.

When you talk of those figures being excessive if true - Keep in mind just how short a career rugby is.

locum-motion

Yes, I know what the OP was trying to say with the thread title, but "Provential" hurts my eyes.

Can a mod please fix the spelling?

patoh1

locum-motion wrote: »

Yes, I know what the OP was trying to say with the thread title, but "Provential" hurts my eyes.

Can a mod please fix the spelling?

It hurts my eyes too 😂

patoh1

highgiant1985 wrote: »

When you talk of those figures being excessive if true - Keep in mind just how short a career rugby is.

Completely get that. Just surprised because although Connacht are doing well recently, their average attendance is around 5,000, that’s over 12 home games and it’s a small market sponsorship wise.

I assumed with all the costs (buses, flights, hotels, 20+ staff etc) coupled with the redevelopment of the sports ground, that generally the higher earners (tiernan o h, ultan d) would be around €80k. Not including bundee obviously.

siltirocker

patoh1 wrote: »

Completely get that. Just surprised because although Connacht are doing well recently, their average attendance is around 5,000, that’s over 12 home games and it’s a small market sponsorship wise.

The national team earnings also fund the provinces. None of them are, I believe self sustaining in their current models. For example, Leinster would not be able to near sustain their squad, facilities, etc if their centralised contracts were on their own books.

Shefwedfan

Not sure why people are discussing player wages. Not really something I have much interest in.

First off if your mate does work for Connacht it should be the last thing he is talking about to the public. I am sure Connacht wouldn't be overly happy.

What they earn is kind if irrelevant, the IRFU and provinces have to work within budgets and once that is met then fans should not really care what XYZ is on compared to another player. I only have an issue if provinces are keeping overly large squad and wasting the limited players that Ireland has. Restrictions should be put in place.

The players have a short career, even if they make it to 30's. Some of those players will get mid 20's and career injury and they are out of the game. So for me let them earn as much as possible while they do get the chance to play. Once it not putting the IRFU or provinces into financial difficulty.

No one player should be bigger than Irish rugby.....player will come and go, Irish Rugby will continue on,...so if a player wants silly money then let them go, simple as that. I will always wish them well and hope they are successful once it doesn't hurt and Irish province

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure why people are discussing player wages. Not really something I have much interest in.....

Then why post about it?

p.s. People can discuss whatever they wish (within the rules).

Shefwedfan

siltirocker wrote: »

The national team earnings also fund the provinces. None of them are, I believe self sustaining in their current models. For example, Leinster would not be able to near sustain their squad, facilities, etc if their centralised contracts were on their own books.

Leinster squad is smaller than Munsters....just a small point

Facilities are in combination with UCD.....no idea how that partnership works

Last year the 2 Leinster HC games(qtr & semi) in Aviva brought in 1 million per game to IRFU, which helps pay for all rugby in Ireland. IRFU are probably looking at similar money this year again......

Not sure how it works for away semi's but I would guess not as profitable as a home one

IRFU money will increase next year with 4 teams in group stages and hopefully all 4 getting into later rounds.

Shefwedfan

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Then why post about it?

p.s. People can discuss whatever they wish (within the rules).

As per the post I meant I am not interested in knowing how much a player earns....



Is that ok with you?

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Leinster squad is smaller than Munsters....just a small point

True but Leinster have more than twice the amount of players on national contracts than Munster. And Connacht have zero. That frees up a lot of money for your player budget.

Shefwedfan

siltirocker wrote: »

True but Leinster have more than twice the amount of players on national contracts than Munster. And Connacht have zero. That frees up a lot of money for your player budget.

Aki was put on central wasn't he last time he renewed?

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Aki was put on central wasn't he last time he renewed?

No. He signed again with the province in October 2016 up to the end of 2019/20. But it was not a central contract. Beginning at 350k, rising to 400k.

(Source: Ruaidhri O'Connor, Irish Independent October 2016).

Although two central contracts free up after the World Cup, when Aki will be renegotiating and I would be surprised if he doesn't get one. Up to the World Cup the current central contracts are:

Sean O’Brien
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney
Robbie Henshaw
Johnny Sexton
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath
Conor Murray
Rory Best
Devin Toner
Iain Henderson
CJ Stander
Peter O’Mahony
Tadhg Furlong

Shefwedfan

Best, R Kearney, SOB will all come off central contract after WC.....

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Best, R Kearney, SOB will all come off central contract after WC.....

3, pardon me.

Supposedly after the 2009 grand slam there was something between 30-35 central contracts, and Nucifora has been cutting them down largely, as he didn't think it was helping the provincial game. Rumour, but an understandable one.

sydthebeat

siltirocker wrote: »

True but Leinster have more than twice the amount of players on national contracts than Munster. And Connacht have zero. That frees up a lot of money for your player budget.

the perks of being successful and for providing players to other provinces

Quin_Dub

siltirocker wrote: »

No. He signed again with the province in October 2016 up to the end of 2019/20. But it was not a central contract. Beginning at 350k, rising to 400k.

(Source: Ruaidhri O'Connor, Irish Independent October 2016).

Although two central contracts free up after the World Cup, when Aki will be renegotiating and I would be surprised if he doesn't get one. Up to the World Cup the current central contracts are:

Sean O’Brien
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney
Robbie Henshaw
Johnny Sexton
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath
Conor Murray
Rory Best
Devin Toner
Iain Henderson
CJ Stander
Peter O’Mahony
Tadhg Furlong

If the number of contracts available stay the same , would Aki be in the Top 3 they'd be looking to lock in?

He'll be almost 30 and there are multiple players a lot younger that might make more sense - Ryan , Ringrose , JDV and Leavy (hoping he recovers) would at least be up for discussion I'd say.

Richie_Rich89

I heard Carbery's on a lot more at Munster than he was at Leinster.

siltirocker

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If the number of contracts available stay the same , would Aki be in the Top 3 they'd be looking to lock in?

He'll be almost 30 and there are multiple players a lot younger that might make more sense - Ryan , Ringrose , JDV and Leavy (hoping he recovers) would at least be up for discussion I'd say.

Very true.

Quin_Dub

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I heard Carbery's on a lot more at Munster than he was at Leinster.

That would make sense , the contract in Leinster was his 1st on leaving the academy so wouldn't have been big money comparatively speaking.

When he joined Munster he was an established National squad member etc.

siltirocker

sydthebeat wrote: »

the perks of being successful and for providing players to other provinces

Very true. We can't forget Leinster players that played in European Cup finals that brought on this great era like Mike Ross, Eoin Reddan, John Fogarty, Sean Cronin, Isaac Boss, etc. From when Leinster went even deeper into providing players by having them born, raised and developed outside of Leinster. Genius.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I heard Carbery's on a lot more at Munster than he was at Leinster.

I would hope so....


His contract for Leinster was signed when he wasn't a guaranteed starter, he is now the starting 10 at one of the top clubs in Europe and just behind the World player of the year in terms of starting for his internatioal team....


Argument to have him moved to central contract at next renewal

Shefwedfan

siltirocker wrote: »

Very true. We can't forget Leinster players that played in European Cup finals that brought on this great era like Mike Ross, Eoin Reddan, John Fogarty, Sean Cronin, Isaac Boss, etc. From when Leinster went even deeper into providing players by having them born, raised and developed outside of Leinster. Genius.

Look at the Ulster team that lined up against Leinster in Qtr's, more academy players on that single team than you managed to pull out over 10 years of Leinster teams


Not sure why Isaac Boss is included? he was a kiwi

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Arguement to have him moved to central contract at next renewal

It's not really a done thing, as it is essentially just a waste of money. He is under contract until 2022. When it is expiring give him a new one.

It's not like he is going to sign for someone else mid-contract. The transfer fee would be too high and his Irish career would be in trouble.

It also sets a dangerous precedent.

Shefwedfan

siltirocker wrote: »

It's not really a done thing, as it is essentially just a waste of money. He is under contract until 2022. When it is expiring give him a new one.

It's not like he is going to sign for someone else mid-contract. The transfer fee would be too high and his Irish career would be in trouble.

It also sets a dangerous precedent.

Hence why I said at his next renewal.



I am sure his plan is to be the Irish starting 10 in 2022. Also Sexton said he would retire that year after the Lions tour so he would expect to be moved to central contract if all goes well

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Look at the Ulster team that lined up against Leinster in Qtr's, more academy players on that single team than you managed to pull out over 10 years of Leinster teams


Not sure why Isaac Boss is included? he was a kiwi

I was simply highlighting that at one point or another all the provinces have benefited from players from other provinces. I actually just picked players who played the first 3 European Cup finals with Leinster, (not all players not from Leinster to have played for them) to demonstrate that it is not exclusively Leinster to everyone.

By using this I was highlighting that at the height of Leinster's glory they had numerous players from other provinces on their books playing in finals. Whilst Ulster and Munster's greatest wins had no players from Leinster involved. (Unless you want to count Ian Dowling at Munster).

Zzippy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure why people are discussing player wages. Not really something I have much interest in.

For someone with little interest in the topic, you sure have a lot to say on it... :rolleyes:

Shefwedfan

siltirocker wrote: »

I was simply highlighting that at one point or another all the provinces have benefited from players from other provinces. I actually just picked players who played the first 3 European Cup finals with Leinster, (not all players not from Leinster to have played for them) to demonstrate that it is not exclusively Leinster to everyone.

By using this I was highlighting that at the height of Leinster's glory they had numerous players from other provinces on their books playing in finals. Whilst Ulster and Munster's greatest wins had no players from Leinster involved. (Unless you want to count Ian Dowling at Munster).

The only player I would consider is Henshaw as Connacht wanted to keep. Maybe Cronin, I can't remember that far back now if Connacht had a big issue losing him?



Redden and Boss left Munster and went to England, they would be still playing in England unless Leinster brought them home. Munster had no interest in them......



Not really a comparison with Ulster taking a player who was on last Lions tour. Or Munster taking one of the potentially most talented players Leinster have developed. You can also count in Nordi/Conway/etc who Leinster would have been more than happy to keep



Way off topic now anyway.....

Shefwedfan

Zzippy wrote: »

For someone with little interest in the topic, you sure have a lot to say on it... :rolleyes:

I will refer to post 23 :rolleyes:

tabby aspreme

patoh1 wrote: »

I assumed with all the costs (buses, flights, hotels, 20+ staff etc) coupled with the redevelopment of the sports ground, that generally the higher earners (tiernan o h, ultan d) would be around €80k. Not including bundee obviously.

They are probably on twice that, how much do you think the UK clubs would pay O Halloran and Dillane, the Irish Provence's have to be relatively competitive with money or players will travel abroad,

arsebiscuits1

tabby aspreme wrote: »

They are probably on twice that, how much do you think the UK clubs would pay O Halloran and Dillane, the Irish Provence's have to be relatively competitive with money or players will travel abroad,

Ah yeah TOH and Ultan I could see being on around what you've stated.

But they'd also be the top earners in the squad behind Bundee (alongside possibly Buckley)

siltirocker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The only player I would consider is Henshaw as Connacht wanted to keep. Maybe Cronin, I can't remember that far back now if Connacht had a big issue losing him?



Redden and Boss left Munster and went to England, they would be still playing in England unless Leinster brought them home. Munster had no interest in them......



Not really a comparison with Ulster taking a player who was on last Lions tour. Or Munster taking one of the potentially most talented players Leinster have developed. You can also count in Nordi/Conway/etc who Leinster would have been more than happy to keep



Way off topic now anyway.....

Cronin and McCarthy were on the Irish squad when they left for Leinster.

The point I was trying to make was more along the lines that players line out for other provinces, for a number of reasons. Since the professional game started this is not a Leinster exclusive thing. In fact far and away more Munster players played for the other provinces, Leinster included, up until this decade. And I can't recall the passive remarks from Munster fans about this at the time, that seem to be coming in Leinster's direction.

Leinster have not lost, and correct me if I am wrong any first or 2nd choice players. (Keeping in mind how the pecking orders looked when Carbery, Murphy, and McGrath left).

arsebiscuits1

siltirocker wrote: »

Cronin and McCarthy were on the Irish squad when they left for Leinster.

The point I was trying to make was more along the lines that players line out for other provinces, for a number of reasons. Since the professional game started this is not a Leinster exclusive thing. In fact far and away more Munster players played for the other provinces, Leinster included, up until this decade. And I can't recall the passive remarks from Munster fans about this at the time, that seem to be coming in Leinster's direction.

Leinster have not lost, and correct me if I am wrong any first or 2nd choice players. (Keeping in mind how the pecking orders looked when Carbery, Murphy, and McGrath left).

Well then you should probably be less selective of who you listen to so :rolleyes:

As with every rugby topic, Munster players playing in other provinces was met with many snide comments from Munster fans as Leinster players playing in other provinces was met by Leinster fans.

No point putting one fan base on a pedestal above others. Every fan base does it

patoh1

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Ah yeah TOH and Ultan I could see being on around what you've stated.

But they'd also be the top earners in the squad behind Bundee (alongside possibly Buckley)

Who’s going to pay TOH 6 figures?

I’m very surprised to hear that. I thought that’s why players were entitled to half their tax back? As an incentive to keep them in Ireland.

If they’re earning that sort of money I’m not sure why they’d be entitled to that.

sydthebeat

siltirocker wrote: »

Very true. We can't forget Leinster players that played in European Cup finals that brought on this great era like Mike Ross, Eoin Reddan, John Fogarty, Sean Cronin, Isaac Boss, etc. From when Leinster went even deeper into providing players by having them born, raised and developed outside of Leinster. Genius.

I see your four legacy players and raise you the following current players:

Tadgh Beirne
Joey Carbery
Andrew conway
Nick Mccarty
Jeremy Loughman
Marty Moore
Jordi Murphy
Jack McGrath
John Cooney
Alan O Connor
Greg Jones
Clive Ross
Dave Shanahan
Jack Regan
Eric O Sullivan
Nick Timoney
Tom Farrell
Gavin Thornbury
Quin Roux
Tom Daly


theres probably more, im just trying to recall obvious ones.

i wont go into the likes of the legacy players like felix jones, niall ronan etc

siltirocker

sydthebeat wrote: »

I see your four legacy players and raise you the following current players:

Tadgh Beirne
Joey Carbery
Andrew conway
Nick Mccarty
Jeremy Loughman
Marty Moore
Jordi Murphy
Jack McGrath
John Cooney
Alan O Connor
Greg Jones
Clive Ross
Dave Shanahan
Jack Regan
Eric O Sullivan
Nick Timoney
Tom Farrell
Gavin Thornbury
Quin Roux
Tom Daly


theres probably more, im just trying to recall obvious ones.

i wont go into the likes of the legacy players like felix jones, niall ronan etc

The point I have been making, and have stressed, is that it is not a Leinster exclusive thing that many make it out to be.

(Also Quinn Roux was not Leinster Academy, he played senior Super Rugby before joining Leinster).

sydthebeat

siltirocker wrote: »

The point I have been making, and have stressed, is that it is not a Leinster exclusive thing that many make it out to be.

(Also Quinn Roux was not Leinster Academy, he played senior Super Rugby before joining Leinster).

no one ever claimed it was Leinster exclusive... so your arguing with no one on that.

And again, i havent mentioned leinster academy. not sure why you are.
Roux can definitely be considered as a leinster developed player who is now playing for a different province... which was the main point of course.

jacothelad

sydthebeat wrote: »

I see your four legacy players and raise you the following current players:

Tadgh Beirne
Joey Carbery
Andrew conway
Nick Mccarty
Jeremy Loughman
Marty Moore
Jordi Murphy
Jack McGrath
John Cooney
Alan O Connor
Greg Jones
Clive Ross
Dave Shanahan
Jack Regan
Eric O Sullivan
Nick Timoney
Tom Farrell
Gavin Thornbury
Quin Roux
Tom Daly


theres probably more, im just trying to recall obvious ones.

i wont go into the likes of the legacy players like felix jones, niall ronan etc

Quite a few on the list were not developed in the Leinster Academy afaik. Guys like Timoney, O'Connor, Shanahan, Jones, EOS. They have made a difference to Ulster but were Leinster discards who would almost certainly never have been given a chance in Blue.. It's not the same as great players like Jordi and McGrath leaving when they could have stayed at Leinster. All the other Ulster players on the list were a peripheral part of the full Leinster Academy if at all.