Estate horses, should they be taken in by councils?

suicide_circus · 13-04-2019 12:51PM

a lot of dehumanizing language towards the low socio economic chizzlers whose only joy is riding around on their best pals.

Guy:Incognito · 13-04-2019 12:54PM

Your Face wrote: »

It's an fairly expensive outlay to properly look after a horse.

.

Hardly, sure you just bung them in a field somewhere. They practically look after themselves............

Guy:Incognito · 13-04-2019 12:55PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

There also seems to be an approach that if a horse is being 'looked after' then it is not considered stray. By rights no horse should be allowed in any urban area in any circumstances.

If its being "looked after" on public land, it should be considered a stray.

13-04-2019 01:01PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Hardly, sure you just bung them in a field somewhere. They practically look after themselves............

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but there are two points to make here.

The types of horses that tend to be kept on housing estates (and we are talking types here, as opposed to breeds) are very rough, hardy horses that are far more resilient than a Thoroughbred or some continental warmblood, who would struggle to cope in that type of environment.

Secondly, I am hugely skeptical at previous claims, on this thread and via media, that these horses are often abused. The only time I've seen serious abuse of a horse, which probably should have been reported to authorities, happened in a racing yard, to a horse who had cost the abuser tens of thousands of euro to just be born.

The guys on the estates typically have just the one horse, and anecdotally, tend to take tremendous care of them -- far moreso than your average riding school with 20 or 30 nags grazing outdoors throughout the year, or confined for most of the time in unsuitable stabling.

Guy:Incognito · 13-04-2019 01:03PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, .

I was, yes.

If you need to use public land to keep your pet, you cant afford that pet.

henryporter · 13-04-2019 01:32PM

Twenty years ago the likes of Bono and Fintan O'Toole waxed lyrically about the "Pony Kids" culture in and around Dublin - obviously they hadn't witnessed scenes like some of the posters here.

Last week i was visiting the nephew in the National Orthopedic Hospital and saw similar scenes on the wasteland behind the hospital - the lads mother even witnessed a mare foaling in torrential rain while scrotes tore up and down the wasteland on scrambler bikes terrifying the animals - said scrotes were also busy attending to the burning cars some of which had been stolen from the hospital car park.

I'm sure Roddy Doyle will write a funny book about it some day!

whisky_galore · 13-04-2019 01:57PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but there are two points to make here.

The types of horses that tend to be kept on housing estates (and we are talking types here, as opposed to breeds) are very rough, hardy horses that are far more resilient than a Thoroughbred or some continental warmblood, who would struggle to cope in that type of environment.

Secondly, I am hugely skeptical at previous claims, on this thread and via media, that these horses are often abused. The only time I've seen serious abuse of a horse, which probably should have been reported to authorities, happened in a racing yard, to a horse who had cost the abuser tens of thousands of euro to just be born.

The guys on the estates typically have just the one horse, and anecdotally, tend to take tremendous care of them -- far moreso than your average riding school with 20 or 30 nags grazing outdoors throughout the year, or confined for most of the time in unsuitable stabling.

Ah shur it'll be grand. Nothing to see here.

Obviously the massive abandoned horses problem is all fake news.

Discodog · 13-04-2019 02:56PM

A few years ago a group of children stoned a foal to death in Galway. The Guards said it was up to the GSPCA to act & the GSPCA pointed out that they have no powers without the Gardai.

There is legislation & horses can be seized. They can't pursue the owners because they ignore the law & don't register & microchip the horses.

13-04-2019 03:02PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ah shur it'll be grand. Nothing to see here.

Obviously the massive abandoned horses problem is all fake news.

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

Discodog · 13-04-2019 03:11PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

How about legally ? What happens when these horses roam or need Vet care, shoeing etc ?

whisky_galore · 13-04-2019 03:24PM

Discodog wrote: »

How about legally ? What happens when these horses roam or need Vet care, shoeing etc ?

Micro chipping??

Like they're going to bother their arses doing that.

A horse is for life, not just for Xmas.

Guy:Incognito · 13-04-2019 03:32PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept. There isnt any justification for horses to be in housing estates.

If you dont have land or wont pay to keep a horse properly , you shouldnt have horses.

13-04-2019 03:42PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept.

Why do so many people seem fixated with the ownership of the field, in cases of supposed cruelty?

If the above is cruelty, what's the ownership of the field got to do with it? The horse doesn't care who owns the deeds.

Discodog · 13-04-2019 04:30PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Why do so many people seem fixated with the ownership of the field, in cases of supposed cruelty?

If the above is cruelty, what's the ownership of the field got to do with it? The horse doesn't care who owns the deeds.

So do these lads rent a field as in pay rent to someone ? The law states that:

( a) the animal is kept and treated in a manner that—

(i) safeguards the health and welfare of the animal, and

(ii) does not threaten the health or welfare of the animal or another animal,

and

( b) all buildings, gates, fences, hedges, boundary walls and other structures used to contain the animal are constructed and maintained in a manner so that they do not cause injury or unnecessary suffering to the animal.

(2) A person who fails to comply with this section commits an offence.

Prohibition on animal cruelty.

12.—(1) A person shall not—

( a) do, or fail to do, anything or cause or permit anything to be done to an animal that causes unnecessary suffering to, or endanger the health or welfare of, an animal, or

( b) neglect, or be reckless, regarding the health or welfare of an animal.

(2) A person who contravenes this section commits an offence.

Discodog · 13-04-2019 04:32PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept. There isnt any justification for horses to be in housing estates.

If you dont have land or wont pay to keep a horse properly , you shouldnt have horses.

But yet again it raises the issue of discrimination. Most horse owners have to comply with the law, whereas a certain section don't.

13-04-2019 04:37PM

Discodog wrote: »

So do these lads rent a field as in pay rent to someone ? The law states that:

I'm not objecting to anti-cruelty legislation, so long as it is interpreted in a pragmatic and fair manner.

All I'm saying is that it's a bit hard to swallow the claim that there isn't classism at play, when some people are openly gasping at the fact that these horse-owners are not land-owners.

I suggest all of our 'cruelty experts' familiarise themselves with more professional establishments, like racing yards and dressage yards, where a horse may be in a box (stable) for 20 hours a day, and never be allowed out on grass at all during the competition season.

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that. A horse needs the company of other horses, a satisfactory supply of food, basic good health, and the ability to graze outdoors. And most horses on estates seem to get all of this and more.

A horse does not appreciate aesthetics, it doesn't give a sh1t whether it lives in the National Stud or Ballfermot; nor has it any anxiety about private property.

El_Bee · 13-04-2019 04:39PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that.

You're certifiable if you believe that.

13-04-2019 04:42PM

El_Bee wrote: »

You're certifiable if you believe that.

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

Discodog · 13-04-2019 04:51PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

I wouldn't doubt you regarding the racing industry. But the law has to mean something & if you allow one group to constantly break the law then that's discrimination.

It has nothing to do with class. No one is stopping any of these people from lawfully owning a horse. I can't speak for Dublin but I know that some groups around Galway treat horses & other animals appallingly & the Guards won't touch them.

nice_guy80 · 13-04-2019 04:56PM

Saw a sulky being driven out along the Chapolizard bypass today....
in the bus lane....
while the driver was on his phone....
(probably checking the betting for some race meeting)

whisky_galore · 13-04-2019 04:57PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not objecting to anti-cruelty legislation, so long as it is interpreted in a pragmatic and fair manner.

All I'm saying is that it's a bit hard to swallow the claim that there isn't classism at play, when some people are openly gasping at the fact that these horse-owners are not land-owners.

I suggest all of our 'cruelty experts' familiarise themselves with more professional establishments, like racing yards and dressage yards, where a horse may be in a box (stable) for 20 hours a day, and never be allowed out on grass at all during the competition season.

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that. A horse needs the company of other horses, a satisfactory supply of food, basic good health, and the ability to graze outdoors. And most horses on estates seem to get all of this and more.

A horse does not appreciate aesthetics, it doesn't give a sh1t whether it lives in the National Stud or Ballfermot; nor has it any anxiety about private property.

Can we keep one on your property so?

Rent free of course.

markc1184 · 13-04-2019 05:00PM

There were a couple of horses tied up beside the roundabout at the petrol station on the Malahide road a couple of weeks ago. I've never seen a horse with such an overgrown, badly matted coat before. I'd dread to think how it would look with the coat cut away. It was sickening to see.

dhaughton99 · 13-04-2019 05:04PM

But the poor childers have nothing to do and the youth club is closed. “Could be worse, they could be on drugs”

The council workers are just too bloody scared to act.

lawred2 · 13-04-2019 05:05PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone agree that all of these horses on random housing estates and beside main roads (often tied to poles) should be rounded up and taken in to care?

Saw a number of them this evening near Coolock and it's tragic. They are abused.

Does anyone know is a similar situation allowed in estates in the UK, for example? Or is this a distinctly Irish phenomenon?

They need killing.

And the horses should be stabled.

Guy:Incognito · 13-04-2019 06:07PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not objecting to anti-cruelty legislation, so long as it is interpreted in a pragmatic and fair manner.

All I'm saying is that it's a bit hard to swallow the claim that there isn't classism at play, when some people are openly gasping at the fact that these horse-owners are not land-owners.

I suggest all of our 'cruelty experts' familiarise themselves with more professional establishments, like racing yards and dressage yards, where a horse may be in a box (stable) for 20 hours a day, and never be allowed out on grass at all during the competition season.

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that. A horse needs the company of other horses, a satisfactory supply of food, basic good health, and the ability to graze outdoors. And most horses on estates seem to get all of this and more.

A horse does not appreciate aesthetics, it doesn't give a sh1t whether it lives in the National Stud or Ballfermot; nor has it any anxiety about private property.

I genuinely dont care if I'm being classist (can I be classist against other working class people?)

Horses dont belong on housing estates.

If you own a big field and chose to use it to keep horses that's your choice and brings in some accountability. It's easy to know who's field.it is and who's responsible for the horses. Public parks, including those with playing pitches that are constantly being destroyed by scores with horses, quads, motorbikes and stolen cars, are not the places.for these things..

Again, horses are not domestic animals unless you've you're own land to look after them. Theres lots of things certain people, myself included have to realise they arent able to have. Horses being one.

And "but these other people dont look after the horses right either " isnt anything close to a reason why they should be allowed keep horses in housing estates.

whisky_galore · 13-04-2019 06:10PM

Wonder if there's any other country, besides here, the UK or some Borat type country where it's somehow normal to keep a horse around a housing estate?

13-04-2019 07:13PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If you own a big field and chose to use it to keep horses that's your choice and brings in some accountability. It's easy to know who's field.it is and who's responsible for the horses. Public parks, including those with playing pitches that are constantly being destroyed by scores with horses, quads, motorbikes and stolen cars, are not the places.for these things..

I agree as far as public parks go; but I see no issue with horses being kept in housing estates generally, ideally in group livery.

Again, horses are not domestic animals unless you've you're own land to look after them.

I think you may want to look up the meaning of the term 'domestic animal', it simply means that horses are a domesticated species that have evolved to be capable of living in close proximity to humans, and to have their characteristics adjusted appropriately.

Plenty of people own horses and don't own land, that's a bizarre, arbitrary requirement to hold.

"but these other people dont look after the horses right either " isnt anything close to a reason why they should be allowed keep horses

That's not my argument. I think the way horses are kept in racing yards is a lot more unfortunate, but necessary. I'm simply pointing out that people have their priorities all messed up, and that seems to bear a significant class element.

ofcork · 13-04-2019 07:53PM

Cork city council have seized loads in the last few years majority put to sleep.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-04-2019 10:13PM

Do they provide figures for how many?

anewme · 13-04-2019 10:46PM

Cant believe there are people defending the assholes with horses here. Classism? The animals are abused. The horses in Ballyfermot and Clondalkin and Tallaght for the most part would be better off dead.

I drive to work in west Dublin.i grew up in west Dublin but no longer live there.

One night near Liffey Valley, a horse was left to die when it collapsed under a sulky. It was left on the road to die and kids in cars were screaming crying going past.

Horses starved to death in the Clonburris fields.

10 fat fckers in a cart with a tiny horse pulling it.

The skangers at the canal when the sun comes out.

Some people here need to cop the fck on and take off the rose tinted romantic specs.

I support My Lovely Horse Rescue and these people do amazing tireless work in dangerous circumstances. They deal with apalling cruelty sutuations daily which are relentless..Go onto their Facebook page and then come back here snd tell me horses in housing estates are well treated.

If anyone can spare a fiver or tenner, please support this amazing rescue.

Estate horses, should they be taken in by councils?

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