Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

Lex Luthor

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think Bitcoin is going to be the digital money?, or another, new one..

Do you think maybe Bitcoin was just a psy-op to soften up the fringes on digital money?

from what I have seen the US and other central banks around the world are implementing their own CBDC's

I dont know if Bitcoin would be the preferred choice to connect them all together as there are better options that are more scaleable and work faster

stockshares

Lex Luthor wrote: »

its moving towards adoption of digital money

Has the current crisis triggered this or has it been in the pipeline before this.

Lex Luthor

there are plenty of apps available that have digital wallets

There are 3.5billion smartphone users in the world
1.7 billion adults remain unbanked with 2/3 of that 1.7b owning smartphones

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

there are plenty of apps available that have digital wallets

There are 3.5billion smartphone users in the world
1.7 billion adults remain unbanked with 2/3 of that 1.7b owning smartphones

Yeah and it's becoming increasingly easier and more accessible for these unbanked to set up banking accounts and payment accounts (e.g. Alipay, Wepay) on smartphones, e.g. Revolut now has 10 mm accounts and expanding

Crypto projects make a lot of "noise" but have little actual penetration and usage - and most of the tech can just be copied or self-developed by companies and larger firms if/when they need it

Also any purely digital central bank currencies will be stable-coins, you won't be able to "invest" in them

Lex Luthor

stockshares wrote: »

Has the current crisis triggered this or has it been in the pipeline before this.

would say both

The COVID-19 crisis has triggered it and the whole stigma of cash carrying the virus will make it easier to implement

It most certainly would have been in the pipelines for a long time, its not something that would just be developed in the duration of a few months

stockshares

Lex Luthor wrote: »

would say both

The COVID-19 crisis has triggered it and the whole stigma of cash carrying the virus will make it easier to implement

It most certainly would have been in the pipelines for a long time, its not something that would just be developed in the duration of a few months

I could be wrong on this but I think I heard it mentioned on CNN that Trump was looking at paying the recently unemployed directly using Digital methods.

Lex Luthor

stockshares wrote: »

I could be wrong on this but I think I heard it mentioned on CNN that Trump was looking at paying the recently unemployed directly using Digital methods.

You heard correct

sabat

Lex Luthor wrote: »

there are plenty of apps available that have digital wallets

There are 3.5billion smartphone users in the world
1.7 billion adults remain unbanked with 2/3 of that 1.7b owning smartphones

You often hear this faux-altruistic spiel out of the mouths of cryptopimps about bringing banking to billions of people even though a 20 second exercise of the brain cells will reveal why they don't have access to banks-it's because they don't have any money. Are you seriously suggesting that some Filipino rubbish tip scavenger or Tanzanian goat herders' lives would be improved by adopting cryptocurrency?

Over 1.9 billion people, or 26.2 percent of the world’s population, were living on less than $3.20 per day

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day

Lex Luthor

sabat wrote: »

You often hear this faux-altruistic spiel out of the mouths of cryptopimps about bringing banking to billions of people even though a 20 second exercise of the brain cells will reveal why they don't have access to banks-it's because they don't have any money. Are you seriously suggesting that some Filipino rubbish tip scavenger or Tanzanian goat herders' lives would be improved by adopting cryptocurrency?



https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day

You think someone that can afford a smartphone with a monthly plan is living on the breadline?

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

You often hear this faux-altruistic spiel out of the mouths of cryptopimps about bringing banking to billions

And what we often hear from you in every single contribution on here is venomous shíte.

sabat wrote: »

even though a 20 second exercise of the brain cells will reveal why they don't have access to banks

20 seconds - more than enough time for anyone reading your posts in this sub-forum to figure out you have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

It's exactly because of those micro-economics - in combination with the cost of these bonkers KYC/AML systems - that they're denied access to formal financial services.

sabat wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that some Filipino rubbish tip scavenger or Tanzanian goat herders' lives would be improved by adopting cryptocurrency? https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day

A 'tip scavenger' or 'goat herder' may depend on remittances from abroad to survive. $34 billion gets sent home to The Philippines each year in remittances. Secondly, you're trying to label this with people that have no ability or potential. I've literally met the unbanked - I had to either meet them personally and pay them cash or use a remittance service to get money to them - because they couldn't accept a bank transfer. They weren't 'tip scavengers' or 'goat herders' - they were graphic designers.

The issue of the unbanked has been recognised long before crypto and is recognised by many who have no interest in crypto. The World Bank recognises that access to financial services is critical in reducing poverty and inequality. To suggest financial exclusion is not an issue reflects on your own '20 second' thoughtlessness.

Lex Luthor

How many people in Ireland live each week from pay check to paycheck and have no use for a bank?
I know plenty, get paid in cash or cheque, cash the cheque in the local hard ware store, pay for their bills over the counter in the bank or PO, pay their rent in cash, buy their food in cash. They are unbanked for the very reason they dont need one and if they save nnything its probably a few quid a week in the credit union
This in a population of approx 5million

Now you look at the US with a population of 327 million and in my experience from living there is a much more difficult place to get a bank account
How many people live off the system with cash, I would imagine a lot more per 1million

But I would be safe to say the majority of them or at least more than 60% have smartphones, so they have now a mechanism to get paid the benefit money from the FED

I dont think its a matter of if, but a matter of when the US goes to a digital currency and there has been enough articles over the past few months with countries like France, China, Saudi A, Switzerland etc all going the digital currency route, not to mention the digital EUR

If the US people want these benefit "cheques" they will need to sign up for digital wallets

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Well there's the 19 years of not paying rent to take into account. Or if it's a buy-to-let there's the rental income to take into account. Or if you got it with a mortgage the actual investment is a fairly small percentage of the return.

No, there were 8 years or so of paying a mortgage which I didn't add the interest of, not having the data to hand. Not paying rent is not a return on investment anymore than buying clothes gives you a return vs hiring them.

Property in this country has been a poor investment for me. Fair do's to those who have a better experience.

sabat

Lex Luthor wrote: »

You think someone that can afford a smartphone with a monthly plan is living on the breadline?

You think the World Bank are lying? The figures for people on the breadline and people with no banking roughly correlate. Whether they have smartphones or not is irrelevant (although there are extremely cheap phones and plans available in the developing world) because they have no need for banks in their current circumstances. The "helping billions get access to banking" is just another smarmy cryptopimp marketing line that falls apart when introduced to reality.

cnocbui

sabat wrote: »

You often hear this faux-altruistic spiel out of the mouths of cryptopimps about bringing banking to billions of people even though a 20 second exercise of the brain cells will reveal why they don't have access to banks-it's because they don't have any money. Are you seriously suggesting that some Filipino rubbish tip scavenger or Tanzanian goat herders' lives would be improved by adopting cryptocurrency?



https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day

You are failing to mention the other bank account preventative which is rigid and inflexible Know Your Customer feces which are predicated on owning property or having a fixed address.

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

You think the World Bank are lying?

Do YOU? The World Bank recognise the unbanked as a major stumbling block to financial inclusion and pathway out of poverty.

sabat wrote: »

The figures for people on the breadline and people with no banking roughly correlate.

It's the figures for the cost of banking (to include this KYC/AML nonsense) versus the income of people in the vast informal economies of the developing world that you need to be looking at.

sabat wrote: »

The "helping billions get access to banking" is just another smarmy cryptopimp marketing line that falls apart when introduced to reality.

Helping the unbanked and solving the unbanked issue pre-dates crypto. Ask the World Bank. Don't let facts hit you on the way out.

Lex Luthor

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bis-calls-for-central-bank-digital-currencies-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

Bob24

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bis-calls-for-central-bank-digital-currencies-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

Consumer CBDCs could well launch in the medium term, but Cointelegraph is being a bit hyperbolic here I think. If you look at the actual report there is a short paragraph on CBDCs at the end, but it isn’t them main topic and I don’t think it is fair representation to say the “BIS calls for central bank digital currencies” in that paper. They are just saying CBDCs could materialise and listing criteria the BIS believes CBDCs would need to satisfy.

sabat

makeorbrake wrote: »

And what we often hear from you in every single contribution on here is venomous shíte...

...
20 seconds - more than enough time for anyone reading your posts in this sub-forum to figure out you have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

Venomous sh1te is exactly what the entire cryptocurrency world deserves and I'll keep coming here doling it out for as long as I see new posters (entrants to the scheme if you will) coming in saying that they're thinking of getting into crypto. You think I have no earthly idea what I'm talking about because you've become so caught up that real world logic no longer exists for you eg I will state that bitcoin is not truly scarce and explain why, but all you think is "omg, what a spa. bitcoin is like digital gold."

Tell you what, if you can you give me just one example of any of the coins you've talked about in this forum finding some legal real world utility or being adopted by some company and as a result increasing in value then I'll never post in here again.

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

Venomous sh1te is exactly what the entire cryptocurrency world deserves

Thank you for at least acknowledging that it is 'venomous sh1te' that you're posting. However, there's no need to take that approach. The contrarian view is always welcome.

sabat wrote: »

I'll keep coming here doling it out for as long as I see new posters (entrants to the scheme if you will) coming in saying that they're thinking of getting into crypto.

Ah, the venomous shíte is a public service is it? By the very same token, you come on here posting inaccuracies and you'll be pressed to prove your point (which time and time again, you've failed to do).

sabat wrote: »

You think I have no earthly idea what I'm talking about because you've become so caught up that real world logic no longer exists for you eg I will state that bitcoin is not truly scarce and explain why, but all you think is "omg, what a spa. bitcoin is like digital gold."

If you don't recognise the designed in scarcity of Bitcoin, then you're deluded or to use your own phrase, 'have no earthly idea what you're talking about'.

sabat wrote: »

Tell you what, if you can you give me just one example of any of the coins you've talked about in this forum finding some legal real world utility or being adopted by some company and as a result increasing in value then I'll never post in here again.

Just one is it? Fine. There are millions of Venezuelan migrants all over south america right now. Third party services have emerged in order to help them get funds back to Venezuela - so that they can feed their families. Those services move funds via crypto.

That's one isolated use case.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Just one is it? Fine. There are millions of Venezuelan migrants all over south america right now. Third party services have emerged in order to help them get funds back to Venezuela - so that they can feed their families. Those services move funds via crypto.

That's one isolated use case.

I can think of some use real world use cases involving e.g. Ripple and Ethereum

Do you have a source for the above, with numbers?

grindle

sabat wrote: »

Tell you what, if you can you give me just one example of any of the coins you've talked about in this forum finding some legal real world utility or being adopted by some company and as a result increasing in value then I'll never post in here again.

https://bankless.substack.com/p/ethereum-will-eat-wall-streets-settlement

https://www.unicef.org/innovation/sites/unicef.org.innovation/files/2018-10/UN-chained-Experiments-and-learnings-in-crypto-at-UNICEF.pdf

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/news/2020/03/ey-launches-baseline-protocol-an-open-source-initiative-for-the-public-etherum-blockchain

https://www.axa.com/en/newsroom/news/axa-goes-blockchain-with-fizzy

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/azure-active-directory-identity/toward-scalable-decentralized-identifier-systems/ba-p/560168#

https://blog.guts.tickets/faq-series-why-does-ticketing-need-a-blockchain-solution-c827d9c2554f

Dunno why you'd need to see a price-rise in concert for an asset that was (is still?) massively overspeculated and still awaits it's scaling upgrade. Has oil failed as a commodity because it's price has dropped recently, or are outside factors responsible for the price change? You'd have to be quite the idiot to imagine oil isn't useful at all just because it's price crashed

Dohnjoe

grindle wrote: »

Dunno why you'd need to see a price-rise in concert for an asset that was (is still?) massively overspeculated and still awaits it's scaling upgrade. Has oil failed as a commodity because it's price has dropped recently, or are outside factors responsible for the price change? You'd have to be quite the idiot to imagine oil isn't useful at all just because it's price crashed

Oil is a substance that is (currently) critical for daily life and value goes up and down for real world tangible reasons

There's almost no comparison to crypto prices, which certainly don't follow the same economic logic and go up and down depending on herd psychology more than any other factor. Most crypto is simply not comparable to commodities, equities, bonds or any other financial instrument. It's in its own category and one which doesn't follow normal economic logic or calculable value.

sabat

makeorbrake wrote: »

If you don't recognise the designed in scarcity of Bitcoin, then you're deluded or to use your own phrase, 'have no earthly idea what you're talking about'.


Just one is it? Fine. There are millions of Venezuelan migrants all over south america right now. Third party services have emerged in order to help them get funds back to Venezuela - so that they can feed their families. Those services move funds via crypto.

That's one isolated use case.

The bitcoin blockchain can be replicated ad infinitum; its coins' scarcity comes from a group of people agreeing that this is the one true blockchain, the price of electricity, and current computing power. It is not scarce within itself like gold is; it has more in common with the artificial prices of diamonds.

What crypto do they use for this in Venezuela? Can you show me where you talked about it here and how its value has increased because of this use?

Lex Luthor

Tin hat time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVw9KZ2DwJk

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I can think of some use real world use cases involving e.g. Ripple and Ethereum

Good. Sabat will be delighted to hear that it seems.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Do you have a source for the above, with numbers?

Valiu is one such service. Matt Ahlborg has done a deep dive into it - in greater detail.

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

The bitcoin blockchain can be replicated ad infinitum;

It's open source - of course it can. You can do it in 5 minutes but you're deluded if you think that SabatCoin can achieve what bitcoin has done. You disregard the depth of infrastructure behind bitcoin, the security in place, the network effect.

sabat wrote: »

its coins' scarcity comes from a group of people agreeing that this is the one true blockchain, the price of electricity, and current computing power. It is not scarce within itself like gold is; it has more in common with the artificial prices of diamonds.

It's a common misunderstanding on your part and the five minutes you've taken to consider it. You fail to take network effect into account. If what you say is true, you can start SabatCoin today and it will rival bitcoin.

As regards the suggestion that it doesn't take on certain similarities to gold, that's incorrect. Can you also clarify why gold doesn't trade at anywhere near its production cost?

sabat wrote: »

What crypto do they use for this in Venezuela?

Bitcoin - see above.

sabat wrote: »

Can you show me where you talked about it here

Why? What has that got to do with anything? I mean, I think it came up along the way - but you asked for ONE example - you've got your one example.

sabat wrote: »

how its value has increased because of this use?

gee, i dunno - tell me how has the value of the USD/EURO increased since they brought us from QE to QE Infinity?
I could go into a much longer list of use cases but it wouldn't make any difference to you and your approach to this topic. Grindle has given you the very same with regard to ETH above. I provided you with your one single use case - that proves utility. Naturally, such a contribution adds to the overarching utility which filters through to value in the coin itself.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Valiu is one such service. Matt Ahlborg has done a deep dive into it - in greater detail.

Sorry that blog is too dense and cumbersome to decipher. The name of the app is Valiu correct?

What's the crypto involved, how many customers do they have and are they actually using the service?

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Sorry that blog is too dense and cumbersome to decipher.

You mean you have to read it? I have read it - if you have the strength of interest in the topic that you appear to have, I'd recommend that you do. Matt Ahlborg took the time to provide that research and analysis.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The name of the app is Valiu correct?

It is one of the service providers - yes.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What's the crypto involved

Bitcoin.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

how many customers do they have and are they actually using the service?

I don't know how many customers they have - but you can check out the data that Ahlborg provides. As regards people using the service, I've met Venezuelans who have used the service.


Whilst we're on the same theme, you might want to check out Bitspark (Hong Kong), and Bloom (Singapore), Payphil, coins.ph and Rebit - all using crypto to enable more equitable transfer of the $34 billion in remittances sent back to the Philippines each year.

In Africa, Bitpesa is establishing itself.

Grumpypants

sabat wrote: »

Tell you what, if you can you give me just one example of any of the coins you've talked about in this forum finding some legal real world utility or being adopted by some company and as a result increasing in value then I'll never post in here again.

One coin: Bitcoin
Real world utility: Buy games on Xbox Live
Company: Microsoft.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ie/help/13942/microsoft-account-how-to-use-bitcoin-to-add-money-to-your-account

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

Dohnjoe

Myself, I am struggling to think of a crypto product, with (proper) real world use and volume whereby the value of the crypto is increasing in proportion with the scale/revenue of that crypto use

A solid example with figures that represent actual customers and volumes

Also, I can't think of any crypto project where the total market value of coins/tokens in circulation is the justifiable relative worth of what the company produces (final products, not never-ending development)

Finally - what's to say the whole market isn't overvalued e.g. 10x