Random Fitness Questions

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132294#Comment_121132294

My point about the full stops still stands.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130428#Comment_121130428

[mod note]

STOP THE GRAMMAR NAZI nonsense now please.

the rest of you also give over. This is not constructive. Please move please. Any questions PM me

Quiet Achiever

I'm new to deadlifts and losing grip at 80kg.

Should i keep with it, drop 5kg and more reps, or get straps?

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298339#Comment_121298339

Have you used mixed grip yet?

It really depends on how much you care about grip strength or being able to deadlift without straps.

Quiet Achiever

I haven't used mix grip, and maybe that's what i need to do. I did try gripping the bar like that but thought it felt unbalanced and I didn't lift.

I am lifting for functional strength as part of general fitness. I'm not aiming for numbers, competition, or aesthetic. Just being in decent shape.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299317#Comment_121299317

would couple of those thin rubber stretch bands work for you, you might be able to keep a tighter grip on the bar?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299317#Comment_121299317

Use chalk. Use mixed or hook grip.

Straps at 80kg are a crutch imo

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298339#Comment_121298339

When you say "losing grip" is the bar slipping our your grip strength is failing?

Black Sheep

I am assuming the hands are opening, involuntarily, towards the end of a set.

Before I'd consider this a sign of something 'wrong', even at 80kg, I'd just want to know a bit more context.

The first thing to say is that I'm not a fan of long deadlift sets, and if - for example - you were doing sets of 8-15 deadlifts it's more understandable that your grip is going to fail than if you're doing sets of 3-5.

An 80kg deadlift would be considered a novice or relatively weight for a lot of men, particularly those at or above 80kg bodyweight, but it's important to note that this not the whole training population these days - it discounts females, smaller men and older trainees. An 80kg deadlift for reps is a different proposition for a slighter person, particularly if they're relatively new to training or past middle age, than for a young male trainee, and that's forgotten on this forum sometimes.

There's definitely a context where, if a double overhand grip is being used, and the hands are starting to open on final work sets, and all else is going fine, and you feel like you could otherwise continue to progress in weight, with good form, then I think yes, potentially fine to start using straps or take a mixed grip.

Your deadlift sets are an opportunity to challenge some of the largest muscle groups in your body - hamstrings, glutes, abdominal muscles, back. I don't believe it makes sense to let your grip be the limiting factor, particularly if it's noticeably weak. I think the answer is go strapless or use double overhand grip during warm-up sets, but for worksets use mixed grip or straps. If your grip really needs to be brought along, train it afterwards by adding in some heavy barbell holds - double overhand grip - at the end of the workout. The hands / grip recovers very well from frequent training.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300606#Comment_121300606

I’d suggest they are the same thing. Or rather one is a product of the other (plus the grip variables)

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301112#Comment_121301112

They likely are. But there’s a chance sweaty palms are the cause, so I want to eliminate that

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300833#Comment_121300833

That’s a fair point about training population. I tend to assume a post is an average male, and that is they were old, young, slight, female etc, that it would be mentioned. But it’s not always.

you were doing sets of 8-15 deadlifts it's more understandable that your grip is going to fail than if you're doing sets of 3-5.

Is it? A 10rep set requires you to hold on much longer than 3reps obviously. But the load will be much lighter (75-80%).

In order for it to me more likely for grip to fail at high reps. Your grip muscles would need to fatigue faster than your hips. I’m not saying they don’t, but I’ve seen no evidence that they do. Would he interested if you had any info. Grip is an interest.

One caveat is that hips are stronger than double overhand max. So grip is typical the limited factor at all rep ranges.

Your deadlift sets are an opportunity to challenge some of the largest muscle groups in your body - hamstrings, glutes, abdominal muscles, back. I don't believe it makes sense to let your grip be the limiting factor, particularly if it's noticeably weak. I think the answer is go strapless or use double overhand grip during warm-up sets, but for worksets use mixed grip or straps

I agree that you should not let grip limit your training of hips, posterior chain., etc. But at the same time, removing the grip aspect will see it left further and further behind.

I like the approach of double overhand up to the work set (or as far as possible).

Black Sheep

You could be right about longer sets not being more likely to cause grip failure, I don't have anything to back that up. I suppose if the RPE was the same for both rep ranges, I intuitively think the longer duration set would be more taxing on the grip, but I have no proof and it could just be an anecdotally formed idea.

Brian?

Deadlifting for sets of more than 8 is a sign o mental illness. Ask any doctor!

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301240#Comment_121301240

I think for most people. Their double overhand grip will fail at sub max intensity at all ranges. People might confuse that with grip fatigue at higher reps.

Would be kind of hard to test. Find 5RM, find 12RM. Fond DOH 5RM (grip will fail). Test DOH 12rep set at sale relative intensity. I can't even remember what by work set load should be each week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301936#Comment_121301936

I'm currently doing 15 rep set for my Deadlifts. Romanian, but still.

Also 15s on Bench, Press, Rows, Pull-downs, and other accessories. Maybe something is wrong with me

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299317#Comment_121299317

Most people need to set the supinated/underhand about an inch wider in order for it to feel balanced.

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301191#Comment_121301191

Has always been my experience for myself and training others that grip is on average more of a limiting factor on high rep deads than with heavy attempts.

In general I definitely agree with you that straps are used far too often. I know some people claim they don’t care. Personally think that’s a bit daft given you’d struggle to display any ‘real world’ strength without a strong grip. Even if you just train for aesthetics, a strong grip means jacked arms.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121313157#Comment_121313157

Can you give an example of grip failing at high rep?

I'm not saying it can't happen, I just think that high reps, the load is light, that people are simply less likely to think about the relative % of the lift.

For argument sake, say DOH max is 80% of mixed/true 1RM. If somebody has a 1RM of 200kg, that would mean a DOH max of 160kg. and then their 5,10 and 15 reps max would be ~140kg, 120kg and 100kg respectively. That seams reasonable to me.

If grip was fatiguing early on high reps deads. They'd be struggling to hit 100kg for 15reps DOH. I'd be surprised if that were the case based on a 200kg max. I think its more likely that people simply overload with a something more proportional to the their true/mixed max. (175/150/125kg in this case).

Complete agree RE straps. Forearms still to get fried from volume easier. After a few max efforts sets, grip recovery will slow. So I can understand a powerlifter or strong man introducing them to complete high volume/high intensity days. But guys who jut want to be stronger, want to be bigger, or just want to train. Most of the time use straps as a shortcut.

Strumms

anyone got comfortable DIY ways of anchoring my feet during sit ups please ?

I’ve been sticking them under the bottom rail thing of my exercise bike or putting weights over / on them….both do work to an extent but seriously uncomfortable……thanks.

Mr. CooL ICE

Regarding grip... From anecdotal experience, my deadlift grip (both mixed/DOH) improved massively when I did a period of farmers carries and stayed with me after I stopped the carries, but continued deadlifting.

I took a few years off serious training before/after lockdowns and haven't done farmers carries since coming back and I notice my DOH grip isn't anywhere near what it used to be.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310202#Comment_121310202

You need to seek psychiatric help my friend.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326771#Comment_121326771

Don’t do sit-ups. They’re terrible for your back.

swededmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326771#Comment_121326771

try butterfly situps. Removes the need to anchor your feet and engages your core/ab muscles much better imo

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326764#Comment_121326764

I don’t prescribe my weights based off a DOH max so that’s prob the difference!

My general approach is DOH until it fails, then mixed/hook, then straps. Allows me to tax grip and move heavy weight.

Typically rarely need the straps for anything under 5 reps. Particularly if hooking.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340539#Comment_121340539

I don’t base %s off DOH max either, not even sure what it is.

But it highlights that DOH grip failing is not due to fatigue at high reps, but simply the load being too high. Would likely fail at the 1-5 rep equivalent.

12 rep Romanians tonight. Will go for 15 and move up.

silverharp

Decline press up q, I get a piercing pain above the shoulder blade on an off on one side, is there a stretch or other exercise I can do to get rid of it? it shouldnt be a warm up issue as its about my 3rd or 4th exercise in and will have done a set of normal press ups first

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121374015#Comment_121374015

Try reducing the height of the decline. It will put less load on your shoulder and you can build up from there.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379567#Comment_121379567

Losing 30kg of fat will require a prolonged and sustained calorie deficit. That is not really conducive to building muscle, so I'd limit my expectation for how much muscle you can build. But bare in mind when losing weight you will look more muscled, and when adding resistence training you will get stronger without needs to add muscle mass - through neurological adaption.

Bands can add as much resistance as you need. To get really heavy résistance, you need a frame or rack to which the bands can be anchored. A mix of bands and weights is probably best.

When you tried benching, when you say failed, do mean failing a rep? How do you know it was triceps failing? Just because you can't feel chest working doesn;t mean it isn't working

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121382697#Comment_121382697

ok that makes sense, when I started working on pressups, I didnt remember it being a issue , there might have been a gap and then when I got back to it it appeared, something obviously shifted.

Quiet Achiever

Maybe a dumb question,.but how do you guys decide on fitness goals?

I'm a bit torn for the new year.. I've started doing strength fairly recently, and while progress has been slow due to not having too much time, there has been progress and i am enjoying it.

My goal was to do strength twice a week and run twice a week which i see as very time effective and great all round benefits.

But now I am torn whether to focus on this and put in some good park run times, sign up to 10ks and maybe adventure races in the summer, all the while gradually increasing strength

Vs

Focusing one 3 solid strength shifts a week and getting to body weight bench, 1.5 bw squat, 2 bw deadlift.

I think both are great plans. So how to pick one?

Maybe just shut up and do one says you.