Would you consider suicide selfish?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Absolutely not. You can’t put the feelings of everyone else on someone clearly incapable of coping with their own feelings.

screamer

I think it is selfish, BUT that is because in my rational logical mind I can find a solution to any issue really, so I can fix something.
But for someone in turmoil, who feels out of options or that there are no solutions, it may feel like their only option. I don’t know I don’t suffer with depression, and I’ve never felt suicidal so god only knows what those poor people are thinking.
It is so hard for those left behind, but the poor person has paid the ultimate price. They know no more, but the pain transfers to their families left behind and that is the consequence, and for that reason I think it a selfish decision.
At the same time, I feel so very sorry for that person, lost, scared, alone making such a terrible decision. Nothing is worth your life.

screamer

Still waters wrote: »

Does everyone give an occasional thought to ending it all, I dont mean a really in debt analysis of how one would be better off dead and doing it by your own hand, I mean just n occasional thought that would come into your mind about how much easier it would be, to not just live life

No, never.

killanena

Although it seems selfish, especially if kids are involved, I don't think it is. If your that fair down the hole you are not going to be thinking clearly, other peoples feelings wouldn't be comprehended.

I've been down that hole myself when I was a teenager and I have lost someone very close to me to suicide 2 years ago. I'm not religious, but I do feel they are finally at peace.

What I can't stand is people joking about committing suicide or using it as a tool of manipulation..

realitykeeper

I wouldn`t be into self pity. Those who go around moping and feeling sorry for themselves really ought to buck up for their own sake. Self destructive behavour comes in many guises other than suicide, for instance smoking, drugs etc and there again I feel those who indulge in such pursuits really should reflect on their behaviour which can impact on others. Personally I like to throw myself into my work which I am passionate about and which improves the lives of others, that in turn makes me happy.

givyjoe

Necro wrote: »

Based on?

The act of committing suicide is selfish, but the person committing it is not necessarily actually selfish themselves, due to the fact they may be mentally ill.

It can be both things at the same time, that's why the issue is a difficult topic.

Based on your contradictory statements in your original post, simple really.

If you had any kind of idea the torment people are suffering from, you wouldn't call it selfish. Genuinely, have you ever suffered from any kind of mental illness?

Necro

givyjoe wrote: »

Based on your contradictory statements in your original post, simple really.

If you any kind of idea the torment people are suffering from, you wouldn't call it selfish. Genuinely, have you ever suffered from any kind of mental illness?

Nope, thankfully.

As I said, the act of suicide itself is an incredibly selfish one.

But it is not normally carried out by a person who is rational - so therefore the person committing the act shouldn't be judged as selfish.

You still aren't explaining what's contradictory btw, but I'll leave it there seeing as you seem to be spoiling for a fight given your tone.

givyjoe

Necro wrote: »

Nope, thankfully.

As I said, the act of suicide itself is an incredibly selfish one.

But it is not normally carried out by a person who is rational - so therefore the person committing the act shouldn't be judged as selfish.

You still aren't explaining what's contradictory btw, but I'll leave it there seeing as you seem to be spoiling for a fight given your tone.

I'm sorry, that opinion is based on complete and utter ignorance. It's now incredibly selfish is it? If you haven't suffered from any such illness, how can you possibly know how people feel In those circumstances? You're also assuming people who commit suicide are mentally ill. Someone who loses their wife and children in car crash, they commit suicide, is it because of mental illness or the unbearable anguish they suffer each day? Plenty of people make what is to them, in their circumstances, a rational decision.

Do you believe those who are suffering unbearable physical pain and choose assisted suicide are incredibly selfish too?

One eyed Jack

givyjoe wrote: »

Based on your contradictory statements in your original post, simple really.

If you any kind of idea the torment people are suffering from, you wouldn't call it selfish. Genuinely, have you ever suffered from any kind of mental illness?

It’s hardly surprising that people would be conflicted by what is generally regarded as the antithesis to everything they’ve been inculcated with their whole lives - that life is a gift not to be taken for granted, and that everyone should make the most of the opportunity they have been given.

FWIW btw I’ve known many people who suffer and have suffered from mental illness and they regard suicide as selfish, or “the easy way out” as it were. I know where you get the impression that people experiencing mental illness suffer greatly and are in the throes of despair when they choose to take their own life.

That’s a rather simplistic impression of suicide which ignores the many multi-faceted perspectives, such as the idea of being suicidal with no underlying or co-morbid ill mental health issues or mental disorder (although suicidal ideation is itself categorised as a mental disorder), or sudden suicide as a result of fear of damage to their reputation, or simply for that some people life has gotten too much and they’d rather not continue to live in this world, or for other people the prospect of being rewarded in the next life for their endeavours in this one.

Suicide is easily one of the most complex, contradictory and incomplete areas of human psychology, psychiatry, anthropology and science that is the least understood, because in spite of our best efforts - we still can not communicate with the dead.

Wanderer2010

Absolutely not. A person who is in such a dark and sad state of mind is not going to be thinking of the cost of funerals, the pain they leave behind or any cause or effect. They are simply too sad or tormented to keep living and just want an end to the immediate torture. So not selfish at all. Anyone who calls it selfish clearly has no understanding of mental difficulties and I hope they don't ever find their partner or child dead somewhere after mental issues overwhelm them.

You never ever know whats going on in someones head, the mind is such a delicate and sensitive thing. Try to be nice to people when possible or at least don't judge them.

One eyed Jack

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Anyone who calls it selfish clearly has no understanding of mental difficulties and I hope they don't ever find their partner or child dead somewhere after mental issues overwhelm them.

Why would you even think to wish that on anyone regardless of their perspective?

You never ever know whats going on in someones head, the mind is such a delicate and sensitive thing. Try to be nice to people when possible or at least don't judge them.

Like you did...

Feisar

Aside from the whole sad depressed side of things do we owe our parents/family/friends our lives? As in if we don't want to be here and pack it in it's not selfish as our life is ours, we don't owe it to anyone to stick around.

Fifty grades of shay.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Absolutely not. A person who is in such a dark and sad state of mind is not going to be thinking of the cost of funerals, the pain they leave behind or any cause or effect. They are simply too sad or tormented to keep living and just want an end to the immediate torture. So not selfish at all. Anyone who calls it selfish clearly has no understanding of mental difficulties and I hope they don't ever find their partner or child dead somewhere after mental issues overwhelm them.

You never ever know whats going on in someones head, the mind is such a delicate and sensitive thing. Try to be nice to people when possible or at least don't judge them.

What would be your opinion of Alan Hawe be?
I'll grant a lot of suicides are not selfish, but some must beg the question of whether they are or not. There are certain cases I would certainly call selfish, hideous and calculated to cause damage.
It's not an open and shut answer of yes or no, some are, some aren't imo.

Widdershins

It's true that it's not always caused by mental illness. That belief used to result in people being treated as disturbed feeble minded or weak willed, while their personal circumstances remained unaddressed. Not helpful .

I think everyone has a breaking point and you don't know how much they were already dealing with up to that .

I once had an impulse to walk out of an upper storey window . It wasn't a conscious thought or plan. I felt a physical jerk like my body was drawn in that direction , then I thought ''**** this, that would fix this problem'' and then snapped out of it. I wasn't mentally ill I'd just had enough of a powerless situation with another situation waiting to be dealt with (one that some people called an ''insurmountable task'' but I still did it)

I've been to a psychologist twice to make sure I'm not unwell and the last thing she said was ''don't worry . there's nothing wrong with you . You're doing a job that many couldn't do.''

Wanderer2010

Fifty grades of shay. wrote: »

What would be your opinion of Alan Hawe be?
I'll grant a lot of suicides are not selfish, but some must beg the question of whether they are or not. There are certain cases I would certainly call selfish, hideous and calculated to cause damage.
It's not an open and shut answer of yes or no, some are, some aren't imo.

That's different, that was someone who didn't have the guts to face what he did to his family and who didn't want their freedom taken away. Theres a big difference between the people who kill themselves after a shooting spree or with radical thinking etc compared to someone who is in such mental agony that they cannot see any way out from their pain only by death. Its a very sad state of affairs and I always wish nothing but the best for such people, that they can find peace in the afterlife and their family can find strength.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

Those who go around moping and feeling sorry for themselves really ought to buck up for their own sake.

Yeah - cos that's what suicidal people are doing - just feeling sorry for themselves.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Why would you even think to wish that on anyone regardless of their perspective?

How is saying they hope it _never_ happens to them somehow wishing it on them?

givyjoe

Fifty grades of shay. wrote: »

What would be your opinion of Alan Hawe be?
I'll grant a lot of suicides are not selfish, but some must beg the question of whether they are or not. There are certain cases I would certainly call selfish, hideous and calculated to cause damage.
It's not an open and shut answer of yes or no, some are, some aren't imo.

Fair question, but he murdered his wife and children then committed suicide. Two completely different acts, killing himself not selfish (we don't know the enjough details for sure either way anyway) in my view but killing his wife and children goes way beyond selfish.

hgfj

Feisar wrote: »

Aside from the whole sad depressed side of things do we owe our parents/family/friends our lives? As in if we don't want to be here and pack it in it's not selfish as our life is ours, we don't owe it to anyone to stick around.

That's some bs. Anyone who has children owes it to them to stick around. You bring children into the world you should be there for them.

Fifty grades of shay.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

That's different, that was someone who didn't have the guts to face what he did to his family and who didn't want their freedom taken away. Theres a big difference between the people who kill themselves after a shooting spree or with radical thinking etc compared to someone who is in such mental agony that they cannot see any way out from their pain only by death. Its a very sad state of affairs and I always wish nothing but the best for such people, that they can find peace in the afterlife and their family can find strength.

I'd wish nothing more for them either, I'm not being vindictive with my post.
But I know a couple that left families in dire straits because of financial problems.
If you kill yourself because you can't face the consequences of your actions and leave others behind to in a bind you you made then I think that is selfish.
I wouldn't agree all suicides are because of mental issues, but calculated events to end problems that just can't be faced up to.

SEPT 23 1989

If they could come back and see the fallout for one minute I don't think many would do it

But it's that's terrible black void

Ariadne

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I've had bouts of severe depression in my teens and in the last year. I tried to kill myself twice last year. Both times it was because I felt I was a burden on my partner, family and friends, a toxic presence who would only make their lives worse. I also couldn't handle the pain any longer but it was knowing they would be better off without me, I felt I was doing them a favour. I feel for anyone who has been in such a dark place because I know how it feels. It isn't selfish but I know how selfish I felt when I survived and realised what I'd put everyone through but it only made me feel like I wish I'd succeeded rather than prolong their misery. I'm not in such a dark place now, I still feel they'd be better off without me but I'm working on myself.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How is saying they hope it _never_ happens to them somehow wishing it on them?

Context being important of course, the poster appeared to be suggesting that if someone who regards suicide as a selfish act were to experience the pain of losing their partner or child who was experiencing difficulties with their mental health, they wouldn’t then regard suicide as a selfish act -

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Anyone who calls it selfish clearly has no understanding of mental difficulties and I hope they don't ever find their partner or child dead somewhere after mental issues overwhelm them.

I’m absolutely certain the issue of suicide isn’t nearly so simplistic, but the expression of such sentiments above are a demonstration of how far some people will go to shame other people who don’t share their opinions, while telling everyone else not to judge people because nobody knows what goes on in another person’s head -

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You never ever know whats going on in someones head, the mind is such a delicate and sensitive thing. Try to be nice to people when possible or at least don't judge them.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Context being important of course

Nope. The poster clearly said he hopes it never happens to them and you simply pretended he said the _exact_ opposite because that suited you better.

mzungu

Succubus_ wrote: »

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I've had bouts of severe depression in my teens and in the last year. I tried to kill myself twice last year. Both times it was because I felt I was a burden on my partner, family and friends, a toxic presence who would only make their lives worse. I also couldn't handle the pain any longer but it was knowing they would be better off without me, I felt I was doing them a favour. I feel for anyone who has been in such a dark place because I know how it feels. It isn't selfish but I know how selfish I felt when I survived and realised what I'd put everyone through but it only made me feel like I wish I'd succeeded rather than prolong their misery. I'm not in such a dark place now, I still feel they'd be better off without me but I'm working on myself.

They would not. The world is a altogether better place when the likes of your good self are knocking around in it.

OldMrBrennan83

Yes. I can understand why someone would in some cases but it's still selfish in all cases.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. The poster clearly said he hopes it never happens to them and you simply pretended he said the _exact_ opposite because that suited you better.

Ok tax.

anawfulway

Registered (re-registered) when I saw this thread tbh. Id say it probably is a selfish decision to be fair. It's something that has been knawing at me lately. Not doing too well at all and just feel mentally destroyed and useless and worthless. I've a young daughter though and thats probably keeping me alive at the minute with the thought of what it would do to her and her mother.

The thoughts are insidious though and constant and the way things are, I dont see any meaningful future for myself so its a case of strughle on but the thoughts wont be going anywhere because the situation causing them isnt going to improve by the look of things.

So yeah I think its a selfish thing to do but I can still see and understand why someone would do it. By no means the easy way out either, but fcuk me this is just too much sometimes. You couldnt blame people for it.

Anyway I'll probably be deleted soon, just wanted to get my two cents in. Thanks.

Necro

Succubus_ wrote: »

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I've had bouts of severe depression in my teens and in the last year. I tried to kill myself twice last year. Both times it was because I felt I was a burden on my partner, family and friends, a toxic presence who would only make their lives worse. I also couldn't handle the pain any longer but it was knowing they would be better off without me, I felt I was doing them a favour. I feel for anyone who has been in such a dark place because I know how it feels. It isn't selfish but I know how selfish I felt when I survived and realised what I'd put everyone through but it only made me feel like I wish I'd succeeded rather than prolong their misery. I'm not in such a dark place now, I still feel they'd be better off without me but I'm working on myself.

I'm both incredibly sorry and glad in equal measures to hear that, Succubus.

And that kind of ties into the point I was trying to make, if perhaps worded maybe a bit wrongly.

Being in that sort of place means rational, normal thought at the time certainly isn't your, or anyone in the same situation's priority.

I suppose what I was (admittedly awkwardly) trying to do was separate the act from the person committing it.

I feel the act itself is selfish, but I truly don't judge anyone who takes those measures as a selfish person, as I don't think it's fair in most cases.

Fifty grades of shay.

Succubus_ wrote: »

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I've had bouts of severe depression in my teens and in the last year. I tried to kill myself twice last year. Both times it was because I felt I was a burden on my partner, family and friends, a toxic presence who would only make their lives worse. I also couldn't handle the pain any longer but it was knowing they would be better off without me, I felt I was doing them a favour. I feel for anyone who has been in such a dark place because I know how it feels. It isn't selfish but I know how selfish I felt when I survived and realised what I'd put everyone through but it only made me feel like I wish I'd succeeded rather than prolong their misery. I'm not in such a dark place now, I still feel they'd be better off without me but I'm working on myself.

That's a great post, thanks for sharing.
I would be far from saying all or even a large percentage of suicides are selfish, I certainly wouldn't be saying so about any one experiencing such as you have said.
If you thought I was having a go at such cases please accept my apology for that as that wasn't the intention of my posts.

Sorry about that

anawfulway wrote: »

Registered (re-registered) when I saw this thread tbh. Id say it probably is a selfish decision to be fair. It's something that has been knawing at me lately. Not doing too well at all and just feel mentally destroyed and useless and worthless. I've a young daughter though and thats probably keeping me alive at the minute with the thought of what it would do to her and her mother.

The thoughts are insidious though and constant and the way things are, I dont see any meaningful future for myself so its a case of strughle on but the thoughts wont be going anywhere because the situation causing them isnt going to improve by the look of things.

So yeah I think its a selfish thing to do but I can still see and understand why someone would do it. By no means the easy way out either, but fcuk me this is just too much sometimes. You couldnt blame people for it.

Anyway I'll probably be deleted soon, just wanted to get my two cents in. Thanks.

The words of an anonymous stranger may not help, but here goes anyway.
Please get help.

You wouldn't try to cope with a broken limb on your own, but you're carrying around a lot of mental pain that you can't fix yourself. Get the help asap, and good luck.

You're not useless or worthless, you deserve love and happiness. Please get to your GP or call someone who can help (numbers a few pages back).