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Mexico Vs Ulster ultimate epic super build up thread.

  • 17-03-2019 2:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Lads, I'm so miserable after this weekend that I have to move on and look forward to this game.

    No matter how ****e we've been this year so far, at least one Irish team HAS to go through to the semi final of the Heineken Cup.

    Hold me...


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,220 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Thread title should really be

    Champions Cup Semi Final Build: Leinster v TBC


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Clegg wrote: »
    Thread title should really be

    Champions Cup Semi Final Build: Leinster v TBC

    Shots fired


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,220 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    The match is in less than two weeks and there's a lot of questions for Leinster. Will Sexton rediscover his best form, does SoB deserve a place in the 23. Will VdF, Ruddock, Leavy Henshaw and Luke McGrath be fit?

    After a crap Six Nations there'll be a lot of lads wanting to make up for it. With a full strength team Leinster blow Ulster out of the water. But there's a lot of form and fitness worries. I still think we'll win, but it's not a foregone conclusion like it was pre Six Nations.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,364 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    If Henderson isn't back for Ulster we can forget about it. He is critical for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Clegg wrote: »
    The match is in less than two weeks and there's a lot of questions for Leinster. Will Sexton rediscover his best form, does SoB deserve a place in the 23. Will VdF, Ruddock, Leavy Henshaw and Luke McGrath be fit?

    After a crap Six Nations there'll be a lot of lads wanting to make up for it. With a full strength team Leinster blow Ulster out of the water. But there's a lot of form and fitness worries. I still think we'll win, but it's not a foregone conclusion like it was pre Six Nations.

    The Ulster players bar Henderson were equally **** and struggling for form. And Henderson might not be playing


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    troyzer wrote: »
    The Ulster players bar Henderson were equally **** and struggling for form. And Henderson might not be playing

    The Ulster players?...all two of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    The Ulster players?...all two of them.

    Exactly. The Ulster players.

    Players. Plural.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,028 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    awec wrote: »
    If Henderson isn't back for Ulster we can forget about it. He is critical for us.

    What's the timeline on Addison's injury?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭ Richie_Rich89


    Team I'd like to see:

    1. Healy
    2. Tracy
    3. Furlong
    4. Fardy
    5. Ryan
    6. Ruddock
    7. Deegan
    8. Conan
    9. Gibson-Park
    10. Sexton
    11. O'Loughlin
    12. O'Brien
    13. Ringrose
    14. Daly
    15. Kearney

    16. Byrne
    17. Byrne
    18. Porter
    19. Molony
    20. O'Brien
    21. McGrath/Patterson
    22. Byrne
    23. Larmour

    I'm assuming Toner and Leavy won't be fit in time. I think if Leavy is absent it might be a good idea to have Tracy in over Cronin for his extra ruck presence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    troyzer wrote: »
    Exactly. The Ulster players.

    Players. Plural.

    I don't think it will affect us as much as a team with about 7 starters yesterday...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    I don't think it will affect us as much as a team with about 7 starters yesterday...

    "At least we don't have loads of internationals"

    Great argument.

    I'm just yanking your chain. Both of us are ignoring Cooney who went pretty well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    My optimum Ulster team for this

    15 Ludik
    14 Balacoune
    13 Addison
    12 McCloskey
    11 Stockdale
    10 Burns
    9 Cooney
    1 O'Sullivan
    2 Best
    3 Moore
    4 Henderson
    5 O'Connor
    6 Reidy
    7 Murphy
    8 Coetzee

    16 Herring
    17 Warwick
    18 Herbst
    19 Treadwell
    20 Timoney
    21 Shanahan
    22 Lowry
    23 Lyttle

    Assuming Gilroy and Marshall won't be available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    My optimum Ulster team for this

    15 Ludik
    14 Balacoune
    13 Addison
    12 McCloskey
    11 Stockdale
    10 Burns
    9 Cooney
    1 O'Sullivan
    2 Best
    3 Moore
    4 Henderson
    5 O'Connor
    6 Reidy
    7 Murphy
    8 Coetzee

    16 Herring
    17 Warwick
    18 Herbst
    19 Treadwell
    20 Timoney
    21 Shanahan
    22 Lowry
    23 Lyttle

    Assuming Gilroy and Marshall won't be available.

    Is there any reason to think Addison will be available?


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭✭ Suspectman123


    Team I'd like to see:

    1. Healy
    2. Tracy
    3. Furlong
    4. Fardy
    5. Ryan
    6. Ruddock
    7. Deegan
    8. Conan
    9. Gibson-Park
    10. Sexton
    11. O'Loughlin
    12. O'Brien
    13. Ringrose
    14. Daly
    15. Kearney

    16. Byrne
    17. Byrne
    18. Porter
    19. Molony
    20. O'Brien
    21. McGrath/Patterson
    22. Byrne
    23. Larmour

    I'm assuming Toner and Leavy won't be fit in time. I think if Leavy is absent it might be a good idea to have Tracy in over Cronin for his extra ruck presence.

    So leave cronin out of 23 altogether??!!!
    One of our best players this year, joint top try scorer and up until uncle joe got his paws on him has been in great form
    Can’t take you seriously


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭ jacothelad


    Addison reportedly has a pretty intractable back problem. Won't be fit for q/f.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 Squatter


    Looking a R-R's team above, and ignoring the Cronin p1ss-take, I assume that all of the following will be unavailable for the game. Am I correct?

    Luke and Jack McGrath, Big Dev, VdF, Henshaw, D Kearney, Ferg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    So leave cronin out of 23 altogether??!!!
    One of our best players this year, joint top try scorer and up until uncle joe got his paws on him has been in great form
    Can’t take you seriously

    What took you so long?


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭✭ Suspectman123


    stephen_n wrote: »
    What took you so long?

    True....Larmour too left out really finished me off!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,220 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Squatter wrote: »
    Looking a R-R's team above, and ignoring the Cronin p1ss-take, I assume that all of the following will be unavailable for the game. Am I correct?

    Luke and Jack McGrath, Big Dev, VdF, Henshaw, D Kearney, Ferg.

    We've one more game before the QF. I'm hopeful we'll see Henshaw and maybe Jack Mc against Edinburgh. You didn't mention Leavy but I think he'll take some part this weekend. He was drafted into the Ireland squad so he must be close to full fitness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    troyzer wrote: »
    Is there any reason to think Addison will be available?

    No. I don't think he will be, but he hasn't been ruled out.

    If not him then Cave gets the nod over Hume for experience.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    No. I don't think he will be, but he hasn't been ruled out.

    If not him then Cave gets the nod over Hume for experience.

    Why? At the risk of sounding like a dick, this is likely to be a one sided game. Not a blowout, but I'd be surprised if the result wasn't in doubt half an hour before the final whistle.

    If I was McFarland I'd be taking the view that Ulster have already exceeded expectations in his first year and that building for the future by blooding the kids in the cauldron of a European knockout is better than relying on a veteran who is nearing retirement. Cave gives you the better chance. Hume gives you the better future.

    I'm drinking some matcha tea at the moment so I'm feeling very philosophical and worldly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,285 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    troyzer wrote: »
    Why? At the risk of sounding like a dick, this is likely to be a one sided game. Not a blowout, but I'd be surprised if the result wasn't in doubt half an hour before the final whistle.

    If I was McFarland I'd be taking the view that Ulster have already exceeded expectations in his first year and that building for the future by blooding the kids in the cauldron of a European knockout is better than relying on a veteran who is nearing retirement. Cave gives you the better chance. Hume gives you the better future.

    I'm drinking some matcha tea at the moment so I'm feeling very philosophical and worldly.

    There is not a single coach worth his salt anywhere in the world that would not pick the team with the best chance of winning now in a quarter final. That’s a bonkers argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,225 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    Clegg wrote: »
    The match is in less than two weeks and there's a lot of questions for Leinster. Will Sexton rediscover his best form, does SoB deserve a place in the 23. Will VdF, Ruddock, Leavy Henshaw and Luke McGrath be fit?

    After a crap Six Nations there'll be a lot of lads wanting to make up for it. With a full strength team Leinster blow Ulster out of the water. But there's a lot of form and fitness worries. I still think we'll win, but it's not a foregone conclusion like it was pre Six Nations.

    I'm hoping Sexton's lack of accuracy was down to the quality of ball he was getting. I also hope that the callowness Ireland showed at the breakdown is an Ireland and not Leinster issue.

    I've seriously tempered my expectations for this season. Plenty of talent in Ireland but not firing on all cylinders. Will wait and see how we look in the warmups before I get too excited.

    If Leinster or one of the provinces can turn over Sarries or at least make a final I'll be happy enough.

    James Ryan is a very special player. Most mature performance on the pitch yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,220 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Venjur wrote: »
    I'm hoping Sexton's lack of accuracy was down to the quality of ball he was getting. I also hope that the callowness Ireland showed at the breakdown is an Ireland and not Leinster issue.

    I've seriously tempered my expectations for this season. Plenty of talent in Ireland but not firing on all cylinders. Will wait and see how we look in the warmups before I get too excited.

    If Leinster or one of the provinces can turn over Sarries or at least make a final I'll be happy enough.

    James Ryan is a very special player. Most mature performance on the pitch yesterday.

    Watch out with the Ryan praise. Not allowed do that.

    But seriously, you're dead right about the breakdown. Leinster's forwards blew away Toulouse and Wasps at the RDS and Wasps again in Coventry. It's also notable that Leinster's forwards come onto the ball at a run rather than standing still like they do with Ireland. It might be down to the fact you're afforded even less time on the ball at test level, but Leinster definitely have more success playing through the backs than Ireland have as of late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,225 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    Clegg wrote: »
    Watch out with the Ryan praise. Not allowed do that.

    But seriously, you're dead right about the breakdown. Leinster's forwards blew away Toulouse and Wasps at the RDS and Wasps again in Coventry. It's also notable that Leinster's forwards come onto the ball at a run rather than standing still like they do with Ireland. It might be down to the fact you're afforded even less time on the ball at test level, but Leinster definitely have more success playing through the backs than Ireland have as of late.

    I think a lot of Ireland's more cynical activity at the breakdown came under the microscope this six nations and we paid a bit of a price for that in terms of perceptions of our discipline. To be fair Wales were also a victim of this, particularly against France.

    I'm reserving judgement on Sexton until I see him play outside JGP or McGrath. He had absolutely no time on the ball this tournament and whilst line speed has it's part to play I felt that Murray's descent into Laidlawism could have had a part to play and the lack of fluency and accuracy of his passing meant the ball was dead or lost by second receiver much of the time regardless of whether Sexton got his hands on the ball or not. It's amazing to me that a team with Ringrose and Aki in it never saw the ball reach them in a whiff of space.

    I actually felt very sorry for Murray, when he threw the pass to no one with less than 10 on the clock his body language at the resulting scrum in the Irish 22 spoke volumes about where his head space was at. He's an intelligent, conscientious player so he'll be wearing this tournaments performances on his sleeve and I hope his injury hasn't physically limited his passing. His kicking being inaccurate is something I could see being down to confidence, but his passing was patently second grade and no where near what you would expect from an international level 10. Marmion should have started yesterday.

    Don't see many taking issue with the Ryan praise. Probably our player of the tournament albeit Earls would be right up there despite what little of the ball came his way.

    Anyway - Leinster v Ulster, may the best team win. Don't think anyone expected Ulster to be here and Leinster had want to take their current vein of form seriously. Ireland didn't show Wales anywhere near enough respect yesterday and if Leinster do the same then Ulster will embarrass them just like Wales did Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Venjur wrote: »
    I think a lot of Ireland's more cynical activity at the breakdown came under the microscope this six nations and we paid a bit of a price for that in terms of perceptions of our discipline. To be fair Wales were also a victim of this, particularly against France.

    I'm reserving judgement on Sexton until I see him play outside JGP or McGrath. He had absolutely no time on the ball this tournament and whilst line speed has it's part to play I felt that Murray's descent into Laidlawism could have had a part to play and the lack of fluency and accuracy of his passing meant the ball was dead or lost by second receiver much of the time regardless of whether Sexton got his hands on the ball or not. It's amazing to me that a team with Ringrose and Aki in it never saw the ball reach them in a whiff of space.

    I actually felt very sorry for Murray, when he threw the pass to no one with less than 10 on the clock his body language at the resulting scrum in the Irish 22 spoke volumes about where his head space was at. He's an intelligent, conscientious player so he'll be wearing this tournaments performances on his sleeve and I hope his injury hasn't physically limited his passing. His kicking being inaccurate is something I could see being down to confidence, but his passing was patently second grade and no where near what you would expect from an international level 10. Marmion should have started yesterday.

    I only figured out how to get the ref mic on my radio in the second half. I was treated to the utterly ****e commentary before that.

    But I remember laughing when Angus Gardner spoke to Best and said something like "I'm seeing a lot of cynical play here. Slowing down the ball and being a nuisance at the ruck".

    When a referee is saying that to you, you know you're ****ed. I mean, it's a core component of the game to be a ****house. Either we were too obvious or the game has changed. In either case, we have to change too. We've been much poorer at the breakdown this tournament on both sides of the ball. And as Andy Dunne says, we have more breakdowns than any other team in world rugby. It's simply not a place we can can afford to be less than perfect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,225 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    troyzer wrote: »
    I only figured out how to get the ref mic on my radio in the second half. I was treated to the utterly ****e commentary before that.

    But I remember laughing when Angus Gardner spoke to Best and said something like "I'm seeing a lot of cynical play here. Slowing down the ball and being a nuisance at the ruck".

    When a referee is saying that to you, you know you're ****ed. I mean, it's a core component of the game to be a ****house. Either we were too obvious or the game has changed. In either case, we have to change too. We've been much poorer at the breakdown this tournament on both sides of the ball. And as Andy Dunne says, we have more breakdowns than any other team in world rugby. It's simply not a place we can can afford to be less than perfect.

    We looked incredibly vulnerable at the breakdown. If you are coming off second best in contact this is a natural result - the other team are dictating the terms of how and where the ruck will form and can compete accordingly.

    This wasn't the problem with Ireland. Our forwards were winning plenty of collisions but we were so predictable that any teams with any level of competent coaching (Wales, Scotland, Italy, England) knew where and when to go after the ball and did so effectively. We were so predictable by the time we played Wales that they stole our ball at will.

    France not testing us at the breakdown was courtesy of Brunel being haplessly out of his depth as opposed to what we all hoped was a turn around in form.

    I don't know if there has been some breaking of faith between the team and the coaches or whether there is something with the players themselves. I'm kinda hoping that Schmidt treated these games as World Cup warm up games but that doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny when you consider how much players talk about momentum.

    What I see here is an Ireland team that lost badly in round 1 and never recovered. It's a level of weakness I hoped we were beyond but it keeps the door open to Ireland 2018 returning in time for the World Cup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    troyzer wrote: »
    Why? At the risk of sounding like a dick, this is likely to be a one sided game. Not a blowout, but I'd be surprised if the result wasn't in doubt half an hour before the final whistle.

    If I was McFarland I'd be taking the view that Ulster have already exceeded expectations in his first year and that building for the future by blooding the kids in the cauldron of a European knockout is better than relying on a veteran who is nearing retirement. Cave gives you the better chance. Hume gives you the better future.

    I'm drinking some matcha tea at the moment so I'm feeling very philosophical and worldly.

    I fully expect Leinster to win but we will see if it's as one sided as you think it will be.

    Either way, we will be picking our strongest XV.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,364 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    bilston wrote: »
    I fully expect Leinster to win but we will see if it's as one sided as you think it will be.

    Either way, we will be picking our strongest XV.
    Yea pretty much.

    I'd be telling Coetzee to hit Sexton as hard and as often as he can. Absolutely push it right to the limit, then see what happens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    awec wrote: »
    Yea pretty much.

    I'd be telling Coetzee to hit Sexton as hard and as often as he can. Absolutely push it right to the limit, then see what happens.

    I would imagine Leinster would be very happy if Ulster put arguably their best player on a specific job of going after Sexton. Let Coetzee play his game. If they want to rattle Sexton it will need to be collective and unlikely to be successful either.

    Plus right now Ulster might fancy their chances more with Sexton staying on the pitch and directing play!


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