Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

zapitastas

janfebmar wrote: »

In this picture taken minutes before the firing on Bloody Sunday you can get an idea of the tensions at the time. All of the stones / rocks on the road do not justify shots / firing.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/bloody-sunday-paras-were-the-wrong-regiment-in-the-wrong-place-1.2424550
Just because two policemen (one Catholic and one Protestant) were shot in Derry only three days before Bloody Sunday does not justify violence on the day itself. The soldiers should have followed the rule of law. No excuse for soldiers for firing live rounds , or indeed for the IRA man (who Fr. Daly saw and testified about firing three rounds) either. There were innocent people killed that day and that was wrong.

What a shameful disingenuous post. You are as transparent as a new pane of glass

steddyeddy

zapitastas wrote: »

What a shameful disingenuous post. You are as transparent as a new pane of glass

Was that not in another thread Zap?

Plumbthedepths

steddyeddy wrote:

On another note it's interesting to hear my English colleagues, the English media and English politicians describe the troubles as a "war" now. I'm not sure they understand the implications of that.

Hopefully someone will explain the concept of 'war crimes' to them.

zapitastas

steddyeddy wrote: »

Was that not in another thread Zap?

No was just a number of posts back. Will be an onslaught of attempts to mitigate the slaughter of civil rights protestors and to excuse the actions of the British state. Cloaked with feigned condemnation of the actions of one soldier, the actions of the British state and on the parachute regiment in particular will be given a free pass. I like how we are told to move on all if a sudden. The sooner the insidious interference of the British state is removed from the entirety of the island the sooner we move on and draw a line under the past

howiya

Berserker wrote: »

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, two communities who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

Two communities who have questionable morals... Nice sweeping statement there.

What questionable morals do one half of the population of the north display?

steddyeddy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Hopefully someone will explain the concept of 'war crimes' to them.

To be honest looking at Brexit I think explaining logic would be wasted.

Berserker

steddyeddy wrote: »

Beserker I work in New York, Colorado and England. Disgust with Bloody Sunday and the behavioural of soldiers in Northern Ireland isn't confined to the nationalist community of Northern Ireland. Bloody Sunday is all I've been hearing about in America and the Americans will be watching very closely for justice to be served.

Sure about that? Not seeing anything on CNN about it. Ditto for the Beeb. I don't have Fox anymore, so I can't comment on that. I used to live in NY and Houston myself. My friends in the US wouldn't know anything about it. It's barely getting mentioned on Irish TV this morning, let alone international TV. TV3 were talking about romances that started in Coppers!

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

Sure about that? Not seeing anything on CNN about it. Ditto for the Beeb. I don't have Fox anymore, so I can't comment on that. I used to live in NY and Houston myself. My friends in the US wouldn't even know what it is. It's barely getting mentioned on Irish TV this morning, let alone international TV. TV3 were talking about romances that started in Coppers!

To be honest Beserker I'm finding it hard to believe you talked to people in those places. The US is a country built by Irish Americans. Every second person tells me they have Irish blood and are more clued up about the troubles/war than the average British person. Here's the CNN link. I'll give you a chance to search for more. You should easily find them but if not I can link.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/14/uk/bloody-sunday-verdict-intl/index.html

Bloody Sunday was one of the darkest episodes in Northern Ireland's Troubles. On 30 January 1972 troops fired on unarmed protesters in a civil rights march in Derry, also known as Londonderry, killing 13 people and wounding 15. One injured man died four months later.

jmayo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Also, unlike for those murdered by paramilitaries, the families of those killed by the British Army suffered the stigma of having their loved-ones described as nail-bombers and shooters. When the soldiers were found innocent it automatically laid the blame with those they killed.

Shure they did the same thing with Liverpool fans who were killed due to the ineptitude, ignorance and arrogance of their police.
One of their first ports of call when they fook up is to blame the victims and drag their names through the mire, usually done with the aid of some of their press.

Berserker wrote: »

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, two communities who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

And what of the morals of the British Army, the British establishment that sent out the paras that day and then stood behind their actions.
Ever hear of a gent called Widgery, now that was a guy with questionable morals.:rolleyes:

You will be hard pressed to find people, even amongst the most devout anti provos, who would not agree that the paras acted like murdering scum that day in Derry and that the cover up by their regiment, the British army and the entire establishment was an abominable miscarriage of justice.

After the action of the paras both during and after Bloody Sunday means that people like me, anti PIRA/shinner, would actually not see much wrong with members of their regiment getting blown to sh** in Warrenpoint.

It is one of the only actions of the PIRA that I don't care about.

The proud name hard won by the paras in places like Arnhem was dragged through the mire due to Bloody Sunday.

Gimme A Pound

Berserker and janfebmar in "downplaying Bloody Sunday" shocker. What is with this pathology among some Irish folk?

riffmongous

It was on the front page of the Austrian news website yesterday

https://orf.at/stories/3115123/

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

there was a legal expert, Eoin Paul McDermott on TV earlier explaining why it is so difficult to get a criminal prosecution/conviction. Proof beyond all reasonable doubt, proving intent etc. etc.

surely if a bullet is removed from a corpse, and forensic analysis can prove that bullet was fired from a certain weapon, then am i naive to imagine the person who discharged that weapon is guilty of murder? am i missing something?

i would say put them before a jury or an independent judge, and let them decide.

Ok just playing devils advocate here, and speaking with the experience of shooting high velocity ammunition.. I'd imagine a defence there would/could be there the victim wasn't the intended target simply on the grounds that bullets generally don't stop flying until they hit something.

So soldier XYZ says he was firing warning/contain shots or whatever a lying prick wants to say and hadn't sighted the victim, or the victim walked into the line of trajectory, a ricoheto round etc ~ I'd imagine it would be very easy to put responsible doubt into a jurors mind.

I really thought there'd be riots in Derry last night, I'm delighted to see the city maintained its dignity.

steddyeddy

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Ok just playing devils advocate here, and speaking with the experience of shooting high velocity ammunition.. I'd imagine a defence there would/could be there the victim wasn't the intended target simply on the grounds that bullets generally don't stop flying until they hit something.

So soldier XYZ says he was firing warning/contain shots or whatever a lying prick wants to say and hadn't sighted the victim, or the victim walked into the line of trajectory, a ricoheto round etc ~ I'd imagine it would be very easy to put responsible doubt into a jurors mind.

I really thought there'd be riots in Derry last night, I'm delighted to see the city maintained its dignity.

That's a fair point but soldier F said he was aiming at some of the victims that he killed. His defence in the Saville inquiry is that he thought the victim was armed.

votecounts

Berserker wrote: »

Got a crystal ball, have you?



I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

So you'll be supporting fcuckers who murdered 14 innocent civilians, says an awful a lot about you.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Ok just playing devils advocate here, and speaking with the experience of shooting high velocity ammunition.. I'd imagine a defence there would/could be there the victim wasn't the intended target simply on the grounds that bullets generally don't stop flying until they hit something.

So soldier XYZ says he was firing warning/contain shots or whatever a lying prick wants to say and hadn't sighted the victim, or the victim walked into the line of trajectory, a ricoheto round etc ~ I'd imagine it would be very easy to put responsible doubt into a jurors mind.

I really thought there'd be riots in Derry last night, I'm delighted to see the city maintained its dignity.

i hear what you're saying, but i dont buy it.

if you drove your car at 80 mph into a crowded street killing a few people, do you think a defence of "i never expected that kid to cross, or the lady with the buggy just never looked" should hold up?
i would doubt it.
same should apply here. these guys discharged high velocity weapons into a crowded street. was it not reasonable to expect people to be injured or killed?

arybvtcw0eolkf

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's a fair point but soldier F said he was aiming at some of the victims that he killed. His defence in the Saville inquiry is that he thought the victim was armed.

Oh I know, I'm just playing devils advocate and pointing out how reasonable doubt could be put into the minds of jurors in terms of prosecuting other soldiers.. I'm not versed in law but I'd imagine a prosecutor would have to weigh off this simple defence in the case of others.

Gimme A Pound

Berserker wrote: »

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

Pride in what?

Wheres Me Jumper?

Berserker wrote: »

Got a crystal ball, have you?



I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

i'm afraid the only ones who have sullied your precious poppy are those killers who slaughtered innocents.
a very poor attempt at justifying mass-murder on your part.

Plumbthedepths

Zaire Melodic Vitamin wrote:

Pride in what?

Supporting murderer's I assume.

Strumms

Feisar wrote: »

People trained as aggressive front line soldiers acted like aggressive front line soldiers. Hard to blame the individuals, they people that thought it a good idea are at fault.

If one has a hammer everything looks like a nail, soldiers have guns, what do you expect them to do, they are one trick ponies.

They shouldn’t be but obviously were.

They were supposedly well trained, disciplined army men. Their actions showed otherwise. The best training can and never would be good enough if the recipient of said training is of a deeply unsuitable, malevolent and psycopathic individual(s). You can blame stress and issues of the day but the fact is and has been that hundreds of thousands if not more British troops have been deployed over the world, before and since, often into more pressurized and inherently dangerous locations and have not resorted to murder.

Edgware

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest Beserker I'm finding it hard to believe you talked to people in those places. The US is a country built by Irish Americans. Every second person tells me they have Irish blood and are more clued up about the troubles/war than the average British person. Here's the CNN link. I'll give you a chance to search for more. You should easily find them but if not I can link.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/14/uk/bloody-sunday-verdict-intl/index.html

"The US is a country built by Irish Americans" and thousands of people from every country in the world. The way the Irish bull**** about it you'd swear they got there first and had it all built and ready for the rest of the world to visit

Odhinn

Strumms wrote: »

They shouldn’t be but obviously were.

They were supposedly well trained, disciplined army men. Their actions showed otherwise. The best training can and never would be good enough if the recipient of said training is of a deeply unsuitable, malevolent and psycopathic individual(s). You can blame stress and issues of the day but the fact is and has been that hundreds of thousands if not more British troops have been deployed over the world, before and since, often into more pressurized and inherently dangerous locations and have not resorted to murder.

....no. They acted exactly as they would anywhere they were deployed - go in hard, teach the natives a lesson. There was no "hollywood" spraying of rounds - targets were selected and picked off. 108 bullets from 20 soldiers over about half an hour.

Gimme A Pound

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Supporting murderer's I assume.

Think they're a unionist. If they're an Irish Catholic, well then they're just an attention seeker. Don't get why a hardline unionist would live in the republic of Ireland. I do know two people from a unionist background in the North who live down here but they're both lovely people who certainly don't think they're superior and they respect other traditions. And they certainly would not dismiss the victims of Bloody Sunday.

But wearing a poppy with pride though - pride in what? Winding people up? (It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others - I don't see anything wrong with honouring those who e.g. fought the nazis, so long as people are not just wearing it to antagonise).

Wheres Me Jumper?

Odhinn wrote: »

....no. They acted exactly as they would anywhere they were deployed - go in hard, teach the natives a lesson. There was no "hollywood" spraying of rounds - targets were selected and picked off. 108 bullets from 20 soldiers over about half an hour.

indeed. it was not indiscriminate, panicked shooting. it was targeted & diciplined killing.

even their commander Derek Wilford admits so,

"I don't believe they were capable of that sort of indiscriminate shooting and killing," he said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

steddyeddy

Edgware wrote: »

"The US is a country built by Irish Americans" and thousands of people from every country in the world. The way the Irish bull**** about it you'd swear they got there first and had it all built and ready for the rest of the world to visit

To deny a strong connection between the foundations of modern American and Irish immigrants is fantasy.

Wheres Me Jumper?

some of you may have seen this already. disgusting.

This is their response...bugged conversation from Victoria Barracks, Derry on Bloody Sunday 1972.

According to conversation between security force personnel, General Robert Ford, then deputy commanding officer in Northern Ireland, was jubilant at the outcome. "Yeah ... he said it was the best thing he'd seen for a long time."

Three weeks before Bloody Sunday he had recommended shooting selected ringleaders of the youths in the city.

https://www.facebook.com/bangbangD7/videos/298591060814898/

Edgware

steddyeddy wrote: »

To deny a strong connection between the foundations of modern American and Irish immigrants is fantasy.

.
No one is denying the link but Italians, Germans, English, Chinese etc had as important a part to play in the development of the U.S. Just study the immigration figures
"We built America" is wheeled out every year at this time to try and get Visas

Laois_Man

The Bloody Sunday movie....always worth a watch....fantastic performance by James Nesbitt

Uncharted

Berserker wrote: »

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

Classy quote in a Bloody Sunday thread.

Real classy.

I'd expect no more from a Glasgow Rangers supporter.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Bloody Sunday has taken its own toll on Derek Wilford, debilitated by Parkinson's disease and age. Climbing the stairs, too narrow for his Zimmer frame, to his artist's studio, is a struggle.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

nice to see a little cosmic karma kicking in.:D