So, what time will you be back at?

aloooof

Fair play F, sounds like an incredibly tough one both physically and mentally but you dug it out and still got a PB! Plenty to be proud of there!

Dealerz2.0

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

Oh God! Reading your account really makes you appreciate the good organisation of DCM. So many things throwing you off from the relay teams to fast pacers to the mileage being fecked up and then your body complaining. It was a really tough one but you got through it and on top of that got yourself a pb. It sucks not getting the time you want but it really is the effort you put in that counts. Well deserved medal.

thank you very much!

Dealerz2.0

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Congrats on the PB. That's a great report, very honest and I'm really impressed with how you dug in to get to the finish line. It takes a lot of guts to dig in and see it through when the target is out the window and everything seems to be against you.

There's not a whole pile I can add to the great advice you've already received here - relax and recover, mentally as much as physically as you say.

Thanks A- appreciate it

Dealerz2.0

aloooof wrote: »

Fair play F, sounds like an incredibly tough one both physically and mentally but you dug it out and still got a PB! Plenty to be proud of there!

Thanks D - appreciate it

Applegirl26

Hi F, when you have a minute would you mind giving me a run down of how you fuelled for Belfast. Am I right in thinking you used tailwind? I'm going to give this a try in my next training block.
I'm always fascinated by how people fuel as its such an issue for me. Thanks a mil.
Hope you're enjoying your well earned rest.

juke

Hey F, bit of a chaotic day that!

Whatever about the shambles at the end, the interspersed relay sound awful. Thanks for being that guinea-pig...if ever I stumble back into marathon training any race that includes relay or merging different race distances will be on the 'avoid' list.

Interesting to read about the pacers too. I seem to read about more bad experiences than good.

Well done on gritting through the pain to nab your PB.

Any fruit and nut left?

Dealerz2.0

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Hi F, when you have a minute would you mind giving me a run down of how you fuelled for Belfast. Am I right in thinking you used tailwind? I'm going to give this a try in my next training block.
I'm always fascinated by how people fuel as its such an issue for me. Thanks a mil.
Hope you're enjoying your well earned rest.

Hi L
yeah I used tailwind for Belfast and DCM last year. Give it a try and see if it suits you. I'm still not sure yet, in my head I like that you are on a "constant" fuel strategy in that you are sipping throughout rather than "waiting" to take a gel at miles 5, 10, 15 etc. On the downside, in my head I think it makes me hungry for solid food, but maybe that's normal?

So I would only use tailwind for say 10 mile runs or more. For Belfast I used a camelback type hydration pack with 12 scoops of tailwind in 48 fl ounces of water, taste wise that was nice and strong. Weight wise I didn't notice carrying it, however the strap was rubbing on my neck which got really annoying really quick.

The company suggests making a really strong 500ml bottle of it (they say it will be gel like in its consistency) and as you get near a water station take a sip of the concentrated mixture and then take some water at the station.

Give it a try for a long run and see if its something you like, they sell a "starter" pack or I could send you a couple of free packs they sent me if you want.

Dealerz2.0

juke wrote: »

Hey F, bit of a chaotic day that!

Whatever about the shambles at the end, the interspersed relay sound awful. Thanks for being that guinea-pig...if ever I stumble back into marathon training any race that includes relay or merging different race distances will be on the 'avoid' list.

Interesting to read about the pacers too. I seem to read about more bad experiences than good.

Well done on gritting through the pain to nab your PB.

Any fruit and nut left?

I have to say it has certainly opened my eyes to signing up races, relays will be definitely on the avoid list.

....I am currently eating my way through Mr kipling cakes at an alarming rate and then its time for all those fruit and nuts......cause I'm worth it!

Applegirl26

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Hi L
yeah I used tailwind for Belfast and DCM last year. Give it a try and see if it suits you. I'm still not sure yet, in my head I like that you are on a "constant" fuel strategy in that you are sipping throughout rather than "waiting" to take a gel at miles 5, 10, 15 etc. On the downside, in my head I think it makes me hungry for solid food, but maybe that's normal?

So I would only use tailwind for say 10 mile runs or more. For Belfast I used a camelback type hydration pack with 12 scoops of tailwind in 48 fl ounces of water, taste wise that was nice and strong. Weight wise I didn't notice carrying it, however the strap was rubbing on my neck which got really annoying really quick.

The company suggests making a really strong 500ml bottle of it (they say it will be gel like in its consistency) and as you get near a water station take a sip of the concentrated mixture and then take some water at the station.

Give it a try for a long run and see if its something you like, they sell a "starter" pack or I could send you a couple of free packs they sent me if you want.

Thanks so much F. That's really helpful.
So you didn't use Gels at all? You literally ran the 26 miles on tailwind? That's pretty cool. I'm definitely going to give it a try.

I started out with 6 Gels in Manchester, dropped 2 of them so ran the last 8 miles or so without them. The flat coke definitely worked at mile 20 but was short lived. I ate a couple of jellies but it wasnt enough.

I've a friend who swears by eating an energy bar at mile 18.

You're very good to offer but sure hang on to the samples. You'll need them for your next marathon!

Thanks again.

Dealerz2.0

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Thanks so much F. That's really helpful.
So you didn't use Gels at all? You literally ran the 26 miles on tailwind? That's pretty cool. I'm definitely going to give it a try.

I started out with 6 Gels in Manchester, dropped 2 of them so ran the last 8 miles or so without them. The flat coke definitely worked at mile 20 but was short lived. I ate a couple of jellies but it wasnt enough.

I've a friend who swears by eating an energy bar at mile 18.

You're very good to offer but sure hang on to the samples. You'll need them for your next marathon!

Thanks again.

No problem.
I didn't use any gels at all, just tailwind (sipping away every mile!) and jelly babies. I will have to consider an energy bar mid race for DCM....I feel really hungry late on during the two marathons...what bars did your friend use?

Applegirl26

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

No problem.
I didn't use any gels at all, just tailwind (sipping away every mile!) and jelly babies. I will have to consider an energy bar mid race for DCM....I feel really hungry late on during the two marathons...what bars did your friend use?

I think she has used the high 5 bars and the power bar types. She says she can't run marathons without them and she gets really good times too. I've often wondered though would eating something like a small Mars bar not be the same?

juke

I've nibbled on dried figs on the long runs, sweet and packed with energy.

At DCM, a friend handed me a mini Bounty with about 10k to go - it would have been lovely if I hadn't been so miserable :pac:

Rossi7

I've been training my body to rely on very little other than water. I'm up to 15 miles on my long run without taking any fluids on board. I find if you have a decent breakfast you shouldn't have to rely on power bars and the likes.

Dealerz2.0

Rossi7 wrote: »

I've been training my body to rely on very little other than water. I'm up to 15 miles on my long run without taking any fluids on board. I find if you have a decent breakfast you shouldn't have to rely on power bars and the likes.

fair play...maybe I'm just weird so!!!

For Belfast I had the following between 5:45am and 8:30am:

• 2 Weetabix
• banana
• peanut butter sambo- one slice of bread
• half a protein bar

and I was still feeling like I'd love something to eat around mile 16 onwards.

ReeReeG

Rossi7 wrote: »

I've been training my body to rely on very little other than water. I'm up to 15 miles on my long run without taking any fluids on board. I find if you have a decent breakfast you shouldn't have to rely on power bars and the likes.

That will likely change once it starts getting sunnier / hotter? (if it ever does)

Rossi7

Maybe V, but gearing towards DCM I'll be trying out different fueling but having trained with lads from the club who done London, they pretty much relied on gels and an electrolyte drink and stashed a bottle of water around mile 15. 
I just think if you start taking fun size bars and the like you become over reliant on it. Trial and error I guess

Dealerz2.0

Going to start this log up again and see how I get on. Some good advice from people previously so thanks again.

About to complete 5 week base building phase post Belfast marathon (new pb of 4:18).

I will be starting P&D 18 week "up to 55 miles" plan next week ahead of DCM. I will be adjusting paces to 4:10 marathon times, and see how training progresses as the weeks go on.

Why have I chose this plan: cause I like variety and want to try it after reading the book. In my mind I want more miles at MP during this block, and this plan has that. And yes the mileage and sessions are currently looking very intimidating, so I will see how it goes. I am increasing my goal time to 4:10 to take some self induced "pressure" off me to try and break 4:00. And a 8 min pb on Belfast would still be a great progress report.

Summary of how things have been going since Belfast: Tired legs....just cant shake the deadness in them. Have been getting just below or beyond 30 miles per week last couple of weeks. Since Thursday's run, I have been feeling really fatigued ( I did have an almighty session last weekend at my wife's 40th birthday party- so it may be party fatigue too!!!- the hangover recovery takes longer with age- FACT!). Going to keep my eye on things, and I may just do one session (LSR) this weekend rather than the planned two.

Running multiple marathons in a year is as tough as everyone says....but I do love the training for them.

Summary of Belfast: I started too fast trying to keep up with 4hr pacers, that had gone off at 8:45/8:40 rather than 9:08....and crashed! Went with pacers as I didn't trust myself to keep the discipline...so a large portion of this training block will be learning from that lack of pace discipline hopefully.

Will be running Clontarf half July 6th- currently fitting this into the marathon plan aiming to run it at PMP as per plan rather than PB race.

Dealerz2.0

Week 1 of P&D plan

Monday: Rest- spent the evening in Morton stadium for the end of season fingallians kids running club. A great evening of 100 meters sprints, sack races and long jumps.

Tuesday: started the plan with 2 mile warm up, 4 miles at half marathon pace of 8:50-8:55 per minute miles and 2 cool down. Avg heart rate was 151. Found this run both really enjoyable and tough in equal measure. This particular session is littered throughout the plan so I had better get used it.

Wednesday: rest day per plan but cause of work meeting in town on Thursday, I ran this session late Wednesday evening. 9 miles General Aerobic session at 10:18 min pace, avg heart rate 128.

Thursday: a stunning afternoon was spent on the links of Corballis golf course.

Friday: rest day per plan but as we were heading to flavours of fingal Saturday morning I ran this session Friday evening. Long run of 10 miles at 10:24 miles per minute. Avg heart rate was 137- putting this higher heart rate down to the humidity.

Saturday: a great day watching the girls flying kites and playing on the bouncing castles.....and eating lots of Keoghs crisps!!

Sunday: 4 mile recovery run at 7:30am followed by junior park run with the eldest who got a new PB

Total miles for week: 31
Miles for year: 715

Heading to Monart Hotel for a couple of days tomorrow....can't wait.....still have to run 8 miles Tuesday :eek:

ReeReeG

Dealerz2.0 wrote:

Heading to Monart Hotel for a couple of days tomorrow....can't wait.....still have to run 8 miles Tuesday

Ooooh enjoy, you'll be feeling all zen after that

Dealerz2.0

ReeReeG wrote: »

Ooooh enjoy, you'll be feeling all zen after that

Thanks V, looking forward it

Huzzah!

Good luck tomorrow, F!

Dealerz2.0

Huzzah! wrote: »

Good luck tomorrow, F!

Thanks E!

Wubble Wubble

Best of luck F!

Dealerz2.0

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Best of luck F!

Thanks Wubble

Dealerz2.0

P&D plan week 2

Was off work all week and the week started with 2 days in Monart Hotel as a present for my wife's big birthday....obviously I had to go too. It's an experience I have to say, a fantastic treat. However I think all the wine (a gorgeous Malbec) and rich food ( it's far from amuse Bouche I was raised ) didn't agree with me and felt dehydrated and rotten until Saturday morning.

Monday: rest day- a day spent in thermal spa rooms and having lunch in my hotel house coat

Tuesday: plan was for 8 miles and 10*100m strides. Got up to early and went to the gym "sorry the gym doesn't open till 8am" - everything is so relaxed at the Monart!! The night security porter pointed in the direction of the fields and said its a bit rough. It was a cross country run with some steep hills, did 4 laps and 6 strides before breakfast for a total of 7.8 miles- avg pace was 10.39- avg heart rate was 143. Considering where I was I was happy with that.

Wednesday: rest day- had to collect the kids!

Thursday: stomach was really at me today. Plan was for 10 miles at General Aerobic pace. Lovely late morning run at avg pace of 10:21 with an avg heart rate of 142. Spent rest of day painting the garden walls.....I bloody hate painting...was wrecked after it.

Friday: spent the day in W5 in Belfast with the girls...still feeling ****e and dehydrated. Spent the evening trying to decide how to run the clontarf half.

Saturday: felt much better today. Heavy drizzling rain was great news as it wouldn't be too hot for the race. Got down to clontarf in plenty of time and checked the portaloo was working and did a 1 mile warm up.

The P&D plan for Saturday was 13 miles with 8 at PMP but I wanted to do a good half marathon for a 4:10 marathon so 1:55 or thereabouts was the target, pb is 1:51 so I knew I wasn't going to try that today.

Mile 1-2 pace was 9.11
Hung around at the start for the 2 hr pacers, rain was fairly heavy now, loving it. Felt very calm and very ready. Set off, it was very cramped for this section on the promenade. Pacers pulled away, wasnt worried, only 50 yards ahead. Walkers and slower runners causing problems trying to avoid them-why are they up this far, it really annoys me, can they not read that they should be further back- still worried about the congestion. Turned on to bull island bridge, crowds were sparse cause of the weather. Pacers still just ahead. People taking water from the water station meant for the return leg....honesty people are just stupid!

Miles 3-4 pace was 9:15
The beach was crap, soft sand for the first section and nearly in single file cause of the narrow compact sand section before it opened up. Pacers were further ahead now, I still felt in control and fresh. Started to think I need to bank some time after the beach before the return leg onto the beach.

Miles 5-6 pace was 8:50
Starting to let it go now, up beside the pacers, it's very congested here as there are now two lanes of runners. Legs are feeling strong, so I passed the pacers when there was a gap.

Miles 7-8 pace was 8:39
Really starting to motor now before the beach again. Starting to pass runners, confidence was growing. Got on to the compacted sand early but had to hit soft sand to pass runners, that was tough on the calves

Miles 9-10 pace was 8:30
Left the beach thank god, back onto the bridge, still passing runners, starting to grin now, I've got this in the bag, really enjoying myself

Miles 11-13 pace was 8:16
Going full on now to the finish, still feeling strong.....I should have went sooner as I realise I will be finishing just outside 1:55.... Not to worry I'm having too much fun to worry about that. Haven't ran a race where I've been passing so many runners in awhile so I'm just enjoying the moment.

Finished at 1:55:04- delighted how that went. Avg heart rate 154

Saw a guy with a empty bag filling it up on the free doughnuts meant for all finishers so I had words with him to stop being a pr***! Honestly some people are just stupid.

Left straight away as free non alcoholic beers don't thrill me at all...a well run event, but the beach is an experience, had to disinfect the runners :pac:

Sunday: 4mile recovery run at 10:50 pace

So a great week of running- a great confidence boost

Total miles this week 36
For the year 752

Wubble Wubble

Very well run there F. That's a deceptively tricky race, as I've found to my cost on more than one occasion :eek: Hard enough to get through, without encountering idiots like you described. Enjoy the recovery.

Dealerz2.0

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Very well run there F. That's a deceptively tricky race, as I've found to my cost on more than one occasion :eek: Hard enough to get through, without encountering idiots like you described. Enjoy the recovery.

Thanks, appreciate that.

eyrie

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Saw a guy with a empty bag filling it up on the free doughnuts meant for all finishers so I had words with him to stop being a pr***! Honestly some people are just stupid.

Ah seriously! You really have to wonder about people some times...

Congrats on the race, great to hear you enjoyed it so much! Obviously doing something right

Dealerz2.0

P&D WEEK 3

Was feeling tired after Clontarf still, so was kinda dreading the week ahead in case I over cooked it during the race. It was above what the plan recommended but as I posted last week I really wanted a good half result to base the 4:10 plan, and 1:55 was a great result...still feeding off of the positive feelings heading into this weeks runs.

Monday: plan was rest and I needed it...legs were still "burning".

Tuesday: the plan was for a General Aerobic 10 miles but to try and help recovery I just did the 8. Pace was 10:35 and HR was not recorded as the stupid watch didn't record it. Was glad of not pushing it out to 10 miles.

Wednesday: plan was a 4mile recovery run and that's what I did. Pace was 10:54. HR was 132. Starting to push these recovery pace runs out to 11 minute miles or as close as and I think/feel it's definitely helping for the rest of the week.

Thursday: this was the run I was dreading after racing Clontarf- early in the week I had already talked myself into cutting all or part of it down as my legs were feeling tired still. Plan was 8 miles with 4 at half marathon pace ( half marathon pace being 8:55).

I ran the 2 mile warm up and 10:31 pace, and started on the half marathon session in the fields on a gorgeous morning. Whether it's renewed confidence or the legs just "have it" now, cause of the good base from Belfast, but I was surprised at how strong I was during the 4 miles session phase, didn't want to push it but didn't feel the need to ease off either which I feared I might have to.

Mile 1: 8:47
Mile 2: 8:45
Mile 3: 8:31
Mile 4: 8:37

All paces above the 8:55, probably over cooked it but...then again....maybe I am able for IT....ye know....THE BIG SUB 4!!!!!

Trying to push those thoughts away for now!!!

Finished the session off with just a 1.5 mile cool down.

Avg pace for the session: 9:28 and avg hr 148.

.....Starting to lurk on the sub 4 hour marathon thread....

Friday: rest day- didn't feel like a rest day as rushing around stuff going on all day!

Saturday: plan was for LSR 14 miles, again was slightly concerned about Clontarf recovery and the relatively high miles run. Was awake early so decided to just get out on the roads. Did the usual long run route to malahide/Portmarnock and back. It kinda went by in a blur, didn't meet many runners...probably a bit too early. Avg pace was 10:16- a bit faster than planned but felt it's within the boundary I want to be at. Avg HR 131. Legs were tired but to be expected. Longest run since Belfast in May. Happy with that.

Sunday: 4m recovery run. Avg pace was 10:41. HR was not recorded by the watch.

Miles for week: 37
Miles for year: 789

skyblue46

That's a great week, especially confidencewise. Are you doing many races pre DCM?