Ethiopian Airlines Crash/ B737MAX grounding

Fritzbox

Deleted User wrote: »

visit Leeham news to read reports this week regarding the complications associated with tariffs for European operators irrespective of whether the plane is certified for Europe or not.

I have just visited the Leeham News website, I can't find information about the tariffs you speak about. What tariffs are they?

cnocbui

Fritzbox wrote: »

I have just visited the Leeham News website, I can't find information about the tariffs you speak about. What tariffs are they?

Nov. 16, 2020, © Leeham News: The European Union implemented tariffs Nov. 9 on Boeing and other US products in retaliation for the Trump Administration tariffs on Airbus and EU products.

By Scott Hamilton

This is the latest in the 16-year trade battle between the US and Europe over subsidies and tax breaks found to be illegal under World Trade Organization rules.

The US was authorized last year to impose tariffs on Airbus and other EU products. The Trump Administration initially imposed a 10% tariff on imported Airbus aircraft. A320/321s assembled at Airbus’ Mobile (AL) plant were exempt, even though major components were imported.

Trump increased the tariffs to 15% in March, just as the COVID-19 pandemic erupted worldwide. As a result, few Airbus airplanes were delivered into the US since then.

15% tariff

The EU imposed a 15% tariff on Boeing aircraft that will be imported into the EU. With recertification by the US Federal Aviation Administration of the 737 MAX coming as soon as this week, theoretically some 737s could be delivered this year, subject to tariffs. However, Europe’s EASA, the regulator, also must recertify the airplane. It previously said this could happen this month, but a definitive date hasn’t been announced.

https://leehamnews.com/2020/11/16/pontifications-eu-tariffs-on-boeing-airplanes-in-effect-60-at-risk/

trellheim

May have been posted already

https://www.aerotime.aero/rytis.beresnevicius/26453-easa-boeing-737-max-ungrounding-faa

European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) clarified its timeline when the European authority would un-ground the Boeing 737 MAX, following the Federal Aviation Administration‘s (FAA) un-grounding of the jet.

EASA indicated that it would first publish a Proposed Airworthiness Directive (AD), which is dedicated for the public to comment on the issue. The proposed AD is set to go out sometime in November 2020, an EASA spokesperson confirmed to AeroTime News.

However, public consultation will last 28 days. During the period, everyone can comment on the proposed AD. Subsequently, the authority will have to look and respond to the comments, and only then publish the final directive, essentially un-grounding the Boeing 737 MAX.

“So, the timing for that is somewhere around the end of 2020 or early-2021,” the spokesperson told AeroTime News in an email. “This publication will constitute the un-grounding for Europe from the EASA side.”

EASA joined Transport Canada (TC) and Brazil’s National Civil Aviation Agency of Brazil (ANAC) on clarifying that they would not follow the lead of the FAA, and instead, look at 737 MAX individually. The FAA un-grounded the Boeing 737 MAX on November 18, 2020, following a 20 month long period of no commercial activity for the aircraft.

smurfjed

EASA issued this last night.

COLOGNE, November 24, 2020 – The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) published a Proposed Airworthiness Directive (PAD) concerning the Boeing 737 MAX for public consultation, signalling its intention to approve the aircraft to return to Europe’s skies within a matter of weeks.

The Boeing 737 MAX was grounded by EASA on March 12, 2019, following two accidents with total loss of aircraft in which 346 people died. Intense work involving the dedicated attention from around 20 EASA experts over a period of around 20 months has now given EASA the confidence to declare the aircraft will be safe to fly again. The Federal Aviation Administration of the United States (FAA), State of Design for Boeing aircraft, published its final approval of the modified 737 MAX in the Federal Register on November 20, 2020.

It deals with.

ATA 22 – Auto Flight – Flight Control Computer Software – Installation / Test
ATA 27 – Flight Controls – Horizontal Stabilizer Trim Wire Bundle Routing – Modification / Stall Warning System Stick Shaker Circuit Breaker Buttons (Coloured Caps) – Installation
ATA 31 – Instruments – Operational Program Software – Updates
ATA 34 – Navigation – Angle of Attack Sensors – Test
– Airplane Flight Manual – Limitations / Operating Procedures – Amendment
– Master Minimum Equipment List – Amendment
– Operational Readiness Flight / Pilot Training / Flight Simulation Training Devices

cnocbui

Irish Steve wrote: »

The FAA may well be allowing them to fly, I will not be holding my breath on EASA falling in line with that just yet, and they may well require some more specific changes that the FAA have chosen to ignore for now.

I could have held my breath that long, without straining.

Hotblack Desiato

Hmmm nothing about the trim wheel workout. But that would open a can of worms with the NG.

Seems the AOA disagree software upgrade is now going to be free of charge anyway!

Shedite27

In the news we all saw coming, Ryanair have ordered 75 more 737 Max planes

Shedite27

Deleted User wrote: »

link please. google not showing any order from Ryanair yet.

They were discussing it on CNBC a half hour ago.

Story here: https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-737max-ryanair/ryanair-agrees-to-buy-75-737-max-jets-in-boost-for-boeing-idUSASN000LIJ

Cookiemunster

From the horses mouth.

https://twitter.com/RyanairPress/status/1334517069807837185

Graham

No surprises there.

Somebody in Boeing sales is going to be saddle-sore for a while.

plodder

Graham wrote: »

No surprises there.

Somebody in Boeing sales is going to be saddle-sore for a while.

In return, I was thinking that Boeing got to write MOL's script for the Washington press conference today. It didn't sound like him to be so effusive about anything.

Still, both sides must be happy.

Graham

plodder wrote: »

Still, both sides must be happy.

Not convinced 'happy' would be the right description.

At this stage I'd guess Ryanair could sell off their fleet after a few years of operation and make a profit off the sale price.

If MOL was effusive that tells me all I need to know about the purchase price

theguzman

It wouldn't be like Ryanair to waste a good crisis would it, they got great deals back in 2002 after 9/11 and again now with the Covid-19.

Graham

Precisely.

I'd love to know how much Boeing paid Ryanair to take this batch off their hands. I can only imagine the purchase price reflected compensation for delayed deliveries too.

d51984

You would not pay me to fly in one. Anyone the same?

California Dreamer

d51984 wrote: »

You would not pay me to fly in one. Anyone the same?

Would you say the same about the Airbus A330? One went into the Atlantic!

Would you say the same about other models of the 737? Remember British Midland?

Wouk did you say the same about the 777? Malaysian Airlines didn’t have much luck with 2 of theirs or British Airways that dinged the runway at Heathrow.

Speaking of Heathrow, would you say the same about the 787? Ethiopian had a smidge of a fire!

But yeh you should avoid the 737 Max!

Fritzbox

d51984 wrote: »

You would not pay me to fly in one. Anyone the same?

I'd fly in one tomorrow - if I was allowed.

d51984

California Dreamer wrote: »

Would you say the same about the Airbus A330? One went into the Atlantic!

Would you say the same about other models of the 737? Remember British Midland?

Wouk did you say the same about the 777? Malaysian Airlines didn’t have much luck with 2 of theirs or British Airways that dinged the runway at Heathrow.

Speaking of Heathrow, would you say the same about the 787? Ethiopian had a smidge of a fire!

But yeh you should avoid the 737 Max!

Its just me personaly, Boeing cut corners and hundreds died. Profit came before saftey.

Graham

d51984 wrote: »

Its just me personaly, Boeing cut corners and hundreds died. Profit came before saftey.

Boeing will have been paid long before your protest absence.

The vast majority of the flying public will be completely oblivious to what they're flying on, where it came from or its history.

cnocbui

d51984 wrote: »

You would not pay me to fly in one. Anyone the same?

No. The issues have been addressed and I think are no longer of concern.

3d4life

cnocbui wrote: »

No. The issues have been addressed and I think are no longer of concern.

At least a second chance.

Mr B in deep deep Sh*t* if further issues

California Dreamer

Graham wrote: »

Boeing will have been paid long before your protest absence.

The vast majority of the flying public will be completely oblivious to what they're flying on, where it came from or its history.

If someone is getting to Playa De Finglas for €50 on a Ryanair Max I don't think many will complain!

California Dreamer

d51984 wrote: »

Its just me personaly, Boeing cut corners and hundreds died. Profit came before saftey.

You could say that about any airline or aircraft maker, or any company for that matter. Profits come first every time! Fact of life but I love your faux outrage!:)

Graham

California Dreamer wrote: »

If someone is getting to Playa De Finglas for €50 on a Ryanair Max I don't think many will complain!

You should consider a career in the diplomatic corps if you get bored with tourism marketing

California Dreamer

Graham wrote: »

You should consider a career in the diplomatic corps if you get bored with tourism marketing

Fairly pointless response but sure keep up the comedy classes! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

trellheim

did EASA certify the Max or what did I miss

Graham

California Dreamer wrote: »

Fairly pointless response but sure keep up the comedy classes! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

No offence intended, light hearted banter as we near the weekend.

FWIW I think we were both getting at the same thing. Most passengers don't know, don't care.

Fritzbox

Graham wrote: »

Precisely.

I'd love to know how much Boeing paid Ryanair to take this batch off their hands. I can only imagine the purchase price reflected compensation for delayed deliveries too.

Ryanair has ordered a further 75 Boeing 737 Max planes worth up to $9bn (£6.7bn), defying aviation industry pessimism over coronavirus and concerns that the public may avoid the model due to safety fears...

...The airline is likely to have negotiated a substantial saving on the planes. O’Leary said he obtained a “modest discount” on the fleet, as well as compensation for the delay in delivering the original order of the 737 Max, which was grounded after two crashes caused by its automated systems killed a total of 346 people.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/03/ryanair-orders-boeing-737-max-jets

That's about 120 million USD per plane - is that a cheap price? What's an A320NEO going for?

Graham

Fritzbox wrote: »

That's about 120 million USD per plane - is that a cheap price? What's an A320NEO going for?

Would that be 'worth' $120m at list price by any chance?

Added:

Yup.

Without having any special insider information, I can guarantee MOL isn't paying anything like $120m.

Fritzbox

Graham wrote: »

Would that be 'worth' $120m at list price by any chance?

Added:

Yup.

Without having any special insider information, I can guarantee MOL isn't paying anything like $120m.

I see.

the Grauniad being a little bit misleading.

So not only will the MAX be somewhat cheaper, the delivery time should also be much reduced - Ryanair is expected to take delivery in the spring?