Why do Irish people support English teams?

trashcan

Greyfox wrote: »

If you watch you team on tv and care about wheter they win or lose your a supporter.

I'd call that a fan, not a supporter. If people think that's me being superior, then so be it.

Yermande

trashcan wrote: »

I'd call that a fan, not a supporter. If people think that's me being superior, then so be it.

There's no distinction between the two as far as I'm concerned. You'll regularly hear players and managers thanking the fans for their support, or words to that effect.

OldMrBrennan83

trashcan wrote: »

I'd call that a fan, not a supporter. If people think that's me being superior, then so be it.

A fan like someone is a fan of watching a TV show. Which is essentially what they are anyway.

Yermande

I go to about 5 or 6 games per year. So on those days I'm a supporter, but for the rest of the season I'm a fan? What a load of nonsense.

D14Rugby

I always think of a fan being someone that if their club were in financial trouble might be upset but wouldn't really do anything while a supporter will set up a fans trust, fund raise, do odd jobs to save the club money, donate money etc

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
- Danny Blanchflower

Football is about glory. If by using the phrase glory hunters it was meant as a cheap insult it just shows up your limited parochial view of the game.

Does it? How does it do that exactly.

I am sure Danny Blanchflower was not one for hype...?
What he was talking about was style of play....

I consider myself a Dub - support the Dublin footballers (home and away) and hurlers (mostly home). There is a sense of place following them and identity.
Parnell Park and Croke Park are only short spins away from where I live now and where I grew up.
I also enjoy following sport I would not considering myself a big LOI fan - but I am going to see Rovers v Dundalk because I think there will be tension in it and it will be competitive.

As regards to me calling Irish fans 'glory hunters' that is exactly what they are as most chose a Premier League team when they were 10 and that team were doing well.
Maybe gloryhunters is a wrong term - a brand consumer might be a better one.
They are more attracted to the brand rather than a sense of place a real community. It is an articifal creation of a 'community' like a manufactured boyband group. They even imitate the accents of the Engish when singing songs etc.

That is just odd in my view. It just adds to the artificial nature of it.

Even funnier the Irish consumers of traditional English teams/brands have the gall to look down on those who recently support the newer team/brands who are funded by new money oil etc

From the Liverpool - Tottenham Final thread the day after Liverpool won -

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Oil money can buy a lot but it can't buy fans like this.

I know Ireland not the only country to fall for this branding -

It really brings it home they are targeting consumers from no matter where they are from, with completely different justifications - the adverts contradict each other!

But people will still trick themselves with thier false association 'we' etc and 'more than a club' - 'or a special club'.

However, it is not just the fact that Irish people associate themselves with these brands, what annoys me even more is that they also degrade anything Irish and automatically assume it is inferior.
But, these type of people do not seem to understand the sense of natural sense of community and place - which they have to go elsewhere to look for it. Local is no longer good enough there is no glamour and hype.

I ask you to point me to all those Irish premier league supporters of Brighton, Burnley, Sothampton, Watford.
Why are the Irish premier league supporters always Man United, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal
That is because they are the top teams in England.

How many Man City/Chelsea jerseys would you have seen in Ireland 20 years ago?

odyssey06

76 pages in. Havent heard a single good reason why you shouldnt support a non local team.

If supporting a local team works for you all well and good.

And sometimes people support a local team in one code say GAA and a non local team in another. It works for them. And really if local trumps everything then for 90 percent of the people in this country that means GAA.

But if you a problem with someone supportong a non local team... you are the one with the problem. If all that matters is the local element thats a narrow parochial view I do not subscribe to.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

If all that matters is the local element that's a narrow parochial view I do not subscribe to.

Counterpoint; you'd be laughed at or called weird if you were from Longford and supported Kerry in GAA because they're better. You get a pass from doing it in football/soccer though. That's just an observation.

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

Counterpoint; you'd be laughed at or called weird if you were from Longford and supported Kerry in GAA because they're better. You get a pass from doing it in football/soccer though. That's just an observation.

They arent clubs though. It would be the same re: international soccer teams in a world cup scenario.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

They arent clubs though. It would be the same re: international soccer teams in a world cup scenario.

Clubs represent areas. That's why they're generally named after places. Where do you think Leeds are from? Where do you think Bristol Rovers are from?

D14Rugby

Omackeral wrote: »

Clubs represent areas. That's why they're generally named after places. Where do you think Leeds are from? Where do you think Bristol Rovers are from?

We've been here before. Be warned in odyssey you're talking to someone who wasn't aware Wimbledon was a place. Just giving you the heads up.

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

Clubs represent areas. That's why they're generally named after places. Where do you think Leeds are from? Where do you think Bristol Rovers are from?

They dont. Or Everton woud only have Methodists players and supporters.
Why does Bristol need a Rovers if there is a team called Bristol City?

There were and are lots of clubs in England at all levels of the pyramid in every town and county. They all started out for players to play. They werent formed to give fans sth to look at. Some attracted more fans than others.

You should only support Liverpool or Leeds Utd if they are the closest team to you if localism is all that matters and never pick a higher team in the pyramid.

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

76 pages in. Havent heard a single good reason why you shouldnt support a non local team.

1. Support your local economy.
2. Increase sense of community.
3. Increase the standard of the local team and therefore increasing the standard of the competition they are in.
4. When this happens local talent will stay in Ireland longer and be less likely to be chewed up and spat out by bigger leagues.
5. The local lad in your team will actually be local and the community will see him everyday - so the players are more accessible.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

You should only support Liverpool or Leeds Utd if they are the closest team to you if localism is all that matters and never pick a higher team in the pyramid.

Why do people always support their county in GAA if there are better ones elsewhere? Same argument but yet to hear an answer from you. Seems like it's one convenient rule for one thing and a different one for the other.

Barnsley matches are usually attended by people from Barnsely... mad that.

DeanAustin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Does it? How does it do that exactly.

I am sure Danny Blanchflower was not one for hype...?
What he was talking about was style of play....

I consider myself a Dub - support the Dublin footballers (home and away) and hurlers (mostly home). There is a sense of place following them and identity.
Parnell Park and Croke Park are only short spins away from where I live now and where I grew up.
I also enjoy following sport I would not considering myself a big LOI fan - but I am going to see Rovers v Dundalk because I think there will be tension in it and it will be competitive.

As regards to me calling Irish fans 'glory hunters' that is exactly what they are as most chose a Premier League team when they were 10 and that team were doing well.
Maybe gloryhunters is a wrong term - a brand consumer might be a better one.
They are more attracted to the brand rather than a sense of place a real community. It is an articifal creation of a 'community' like a manufactured boyband group. They even imitate the accents of the Engish when singing songs etc.

That is just odd in my view. It just adds to the artificial nature of it.

Even funnier the Irish consumers of traditional English teams/brands have the gall to look down on those who recently support the newer team/brands who are funded by new money oil etc

From the Liverpool - Tottenham Final thread the day after Liverpool won -







I know Ireland not the only country to fall for this branding -

It really brings it home they are targeting consumers from no matter where they are from, with completely different justifications - the adverts contradict each other!

But people will still trick themselves with thier false association 'we' etc and 'more than a club' - 'or a special club'.

However, it is not just the fact that Irish people associate themselves with these brands, what annoys me even more is that they also degrade anything Irish and automatically assume it is inferior.
But, these type of people do not seem to understand the sense of natural sense of community and place - which they have to go elsewhere to look for it. Local is no longer good enough there is no glamour and hype.

I ask you to point me to all those Irish premier league supporters of Brighton, Burnley, Sothampton, Watford.
Why are the Irish premier league supporters always Man United, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal
That is because they are the top teams in England.

How many Man City/Chelsea jerseys would you have seen in Ireland 20 years ago?

All this talk about consumers and brands is remarkably condescending. I’ve supported Spurs since I was 4 or 5. They’ve broken my heart and they’ve given me some glorious days. I’ve felt it. I’ve never been as ecstatic as the 91 Cup win or the quarters and semis of the CL this year. It’s a bit different to my iPhone or can of Coke which, much as I like those brands, don’t elicit much emotion from me. But they’re brands I consume. Being a Spurs fan has been part of my identity for 35 years. People who know me associate Tottenham with me which is not to say I’m some sort of super fan or have the crest tattooed on my face. They just know I love the club and get huge joy from following and supporting them.

And I don’t know how old you are, but when I started following football and Spurs, it was far from as glamorous as now. In the 80s, football had a terrible name and was not all over the media in the way it is today.

I have been an LOI season ticket holder but can’t get to every game these days. By comparison to the PL, it’s not in the same stratosphere. It is light years behind in every single respect and I can fully understand why lots of people don’t follow it at all.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

They dont. Or Everton woud only have Methodists players and supporters.
Why does Bristol need a Rovers if there is a team called Bristol City?

There were and are lots of clubs in England at all levels of the pyramid in every town and county. They all started out for players to play. They werent formed to give fans sth to look at. Some attracted more fans than others.

You should only support Liverpool or Leeds Utd if they are the closest team to you if localism is all that matters and never pick a higher team in the pyramid.

Bristol Rovers were originally named after the local rugby team then called Eastville, an area in Bristol, Brstol City were originally called Bristol South End, so thats why you have both of them.

Actually most clubs were formed with the aim of both giving players the opportunity to play and as a gathering point for the community, like GAA clubs all over Ireland.

Well you'll probably find everyone that has those two teams as the closest ones to them does support Leeds or Liverpool

gormdubhgorm

Omackeral wrote: »

Why do people always support their county in GAA if there are better ones elsewhere? Same argument but yet to hear an answer from you. Seems like it's one convenient rule for one thing and a different one for the other.

Barnsley matches are usually attended by people from Barnsely... mad that.

I think it is to do with 'brand value'

https://www.statista.com/statistics/234493/football-clubs-in-europe-by-brand-value/

It seems to go against the genuine reasons of supporting a team in my view.
People are basically sheep and want to be seen to be associated with the glamour teams/brands.

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

Why do people always support their county in GAA if there are better ones elsewhere? Same argument but yet to hear an answer from you. Seems like it's one convenient rule for one thing and a different one for the other.
Barnsley matches are usually attended by people from Barnsely... mad that.

Sport is full of arbitrary convenient rules, some codes play as counties some as provinces, some as countries. Whereas in others it is professional clubs. Some codes are amateur some are professonial. Some codes even enter provinces as pseudo clubs in a club competition.

Strange that an event in Barnsley would mostly be attended to by people in Barnsley. I don't know why you'd have to have that explained to you.

RobMc59

D14Rugby wrote: »

Bristol Rovers were originally named after the local rugby team then called Eastville, an area in Bristol, Brstol City were originally called Bristol South End, so thats why you have both of them.

Actually most clubs were formed with the aim of both giving players the opportunity to play and as a gathering point for the community, like GAA clubs all over Ireland.

Well you'll probably find everyone that has those two teams as the closest ones to them does support Leeds or Liverpool

More people in Liverpool support Everton but Liverpool are better supported around the world.

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think it is to do with 'brand value'
It seems to go against the genuine reasons of supporting a team in my view.
People are basically sheep and want to be seen to be associated with the glamour teams/brands.

One could just as easily say that if you can only support the team where you happened to be born or reared - a decision you likely had zero conscious input into then yes - you are a sheep. People are basically sheep and don't want to be seen to be different.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

Strange that an event in Barnsley would mostly be attended to by people in Barnsley.

That's not strange at all. I'll tell you what is strange though... two pillocks from Clondalkin/Portlaoise/Ballygobackwards calling each other Manc scum and bin-dipping Scousers in a pub on a Saturday.

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

1. Support your local economy.
2. Increase sense of community.
3. Increase the standard of the local team and therefore increasing the standard of the competition they are in.
4. When this happens local talent will stay in Ireland longer and be less likely to be chewed up and spat out by bigger leagues.
5. The local lad in your team will actually be local and the community will see him everyday - so the players are more accessible.

For 90% of people in this country if you base your sporting association on local community angle only then it would be a GAA team that would benefit not soccer.

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

That's not strange at all. I'll tell you what is strange though... two pillocks from Clondalkin/Portlaoise/Ballygobackwards calling each other Manc scum and bin-dipping Scousers in a pub on a Saturday.

To be honest it would still be strange even if one was born in Manchester and the other born in Liverpool. It's all so arbitrary.
Why get worked up about 22 men kicking a ball around a field if you're not one of the players subs or coaching staff?
Why 22 men and a round ball and not 30 men and an oval ball?
Or 22 men and wickets? Or 1 man trying to run faster than a bunch of other men? Or trying to cycle faster?

If you live in either city want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.
If you live in Dublin and want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.

You get out of it what you put into it.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

For 90% of people in this country if you base your sporting association on local community angle only then it would be a GAA team that would benefit not soccer.

Most people have an interest in multiple sports.

If 90% of people put effort into their nearest soccer team, we'd probably be seeing teams in the group stages of the Champions League like they do in other smaller nations. We've already got two teams into the Europa League group stages... could be so much better. Pity.

gormdubhgorm

DeanAustin wrote: »

All this talk about consumers and brands is remarkably condescending. I’ve supported Spurs since I was 4 or 5. They’ve broken my heart and they’ve given me some glorious days. I’ve felt it. I’ve never been as ecstatic as the 91 Cup win or the quarters and semis of the CL this year. It’s a bit different to my iPhone or can of Coke which, much as I like those brands, don’t elicit much emotion from me. But they’re brands I consume. Being a Spurs fan has been part of my identity for 35 years. People who know me associate Tottenham with me which is not to say I’m some sort of super fan or have the crest tattooed on my face. They just know I love the club and get huge joy from following and supporting them.

And I don’t know how old you are, but when I started following football and Spurs, it was far from as glamorous as now. In the 80s, football had a terrible name and was not all over the media in the way it is today.

I have been an LOI season ticket holder but can’t get to every game these days. By comparison to the PL, it’s not in the same stratosphere. It is light years behind in every single respect and I can fully understand why lots of people don’t follow it at all.

So why did you pick spurs Hoddle/Waddle/Gazza?

Whether you like it or not you are consumer of the product.
That is why they have friendlies in the USA and Asia
I know you you are now have now made yourself emotionally involved in it which is why the marketers love football.
But you had to artificially create that emotional attachment. you picked Spurs as a five year old.

I can see why people go mad over the glamour English teams jerseys stretched over the beer guts in the pub - a brand, something to do.
But if it was a team which represented the place you live look how different the atmosphere is.
It seems more real to me anyway.
Dublin games, club gaa games, Ireland games etc. Or if you are into Rugby your province etc. Or your local LOI team.
Then it is not forced, otherwise it seems artificial to me.
Irish people going on about mancs and scouse scum it gets silly.
And the putting on of accents when singing songs.

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

For 90% of people in this country if you base your sporting association on local community angle only then it would be a GAA team that would benefit not soccer.

That is a weak argument teams can be formed if any interest is shown.
My local GAA club was only founded in the 70's.
Before that there was no club.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

To be honest it would still be strange even if one was born in Manchester and the other born in Liverpool. It's all so arbitrary.
Why get worked up about 22 men kicking a ball around a field if you're not one of the players subs or coaching staff?
When 22 men and a round ball and not 30 men and an oval ball?
Or 22 men and wickets?

If you live in either city want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.
If you live in Dublin and want to get worked up about it when it's Manchester United v Liverpool, go ahead, it's all arbitrary.

You get out of it what you put into it.

I'm part owner of my club so I'm literally part of it. It's enjoyable. It's a place where I've formed life-long friendships. It gives me joy and pride and ups and downs. It's a great sense of community. Doesn't feel arbitrary.

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can see why people go mad over the glamour English teams jerseys stretched over the beer guts in the pub - a brand, something to do.
But if it was a team which represented the place you live look how different the atmosphere is.
It seems more real to me anyway.
Dublin games, club gaa games, Ireland games etc. Or if you are into Rugby your province etc. Or your local LOI team.
Then it is not forced, otherwise it seems artificial to me.
Irish people going on about mancs and scouse scum it gets silly.
And the putting on of accents when singing songs.

Counties are an arbitrary artificial boundary decided upon hundreds years ago by non Irish people. They were once as forced as any brand.

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

One could just as easily say that if you can only support the team where you happened to be born or reared - a decision you likely had zero conscious input into then yes - you are a sheep. People are basically sheep and don't want to be seen to be different.

No you are invested in the community a sense of place.
It is a pride about your area, your identity your roots.

Are people being different by supporting one of the top teams in England?
The way it is in Ireland you are being different by not claiming to 'support' an English team.
It is almost expected/assumed if you are interested in sport at all!

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm part owner of my club so I'm literally part of it. It's enjoyable. It's a place where I've formed life-long friendships. It gives me joy and pride and ups and downs. It's a great sense of community. Doesn't feel arbitrary.

Once upon a time it was arbitrary. Why that sport and not another, why care at all. It doesn't feel abritrary now but that's because humans have a tendency to identify and form associations. Even over something as meaningless as a sporting contest that some people in the same community as you could not be any less bothered about.
That's what worked for you - cool. But for other people it can work at remote distances.