Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

recyclebin

Blow in to Mayo here so only follow the county team and wouldn't know the club scene that well. Who in the Mayo panel are the main free takers for their clubs? I can't believe that without COC that Mayo don't have a dedicated backup. There should be a clear second and third choice when COC is out.

Hennelly should not be taking frees, let alone be the main keeper. His kicking technique if very unnatural, especially for frees. Cox, and the likes of Beggan, Cluxton are all very comfortable kicking the ball from the ground.

History seems to be repeating itself for Horan. He hasn't learned the lessons from his first spell in charge and is blinded by loyalty to certain players.

On the COC rumours, I also heard that he may be out for a good while yet.

Fr Tod Umptious

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Horan has never had a plan B, it's always been his biggest failing and it looks like nothing has changed

Spot on
And it's annoying that it seems to be the case in 2019 just as it was in 2014

he had no plan from Donaghey either day in 2014, just did the same thing in the replay as the first day

With Rochford he seemed to take each game on it's own and adjust as required.
The QF v Tyrone where he played Dillion
Putting AO'S on Donaghey that was ridiculed at the time but on closer analysis seems to be a good idea
Even putting in Hennelly for the replay when they saw that Clarke's kick-outs were a area Dublin had target.
Had Robbie not spilled that ball and Dublin got three points from some other source in the 70+ minutes no one would be talking about it.

I hope to God Horan has improved in that regard, I hope that he has improved is vision of the game or has surrounded himself with people that have.

In reality it's early days yet, a one point loss on the back of what were two early quick goals
Hopefully they can regroup for the qualifiers for the first time under Horan and get things sorted

And hopefully Cillian will eb back soon, he is dearly missed

seligehgit

naughto wrote: »

There’s a lot of talk that his knee operation did not go well even though he played for his club so god knows when he will be back

recyclebin wrote: »

Blow in to Mayo here so only follow the county team and wouldn't know the club scene that well. Who in the Mayo panel are the main free takers for their clubs? I can't believe that without COC that Mayo don't have a dedicated backup. There should be a clear second and third choice when COC is out.

Hennelly should not be taking frees, let alone be the main keeper. His kicking technique if very unnatural, especially for frees. Cox, and the likes of Beggan, Cluxton are all very comfortable kicking the ball from the ground.

History seems to be repeating itself for Horan. He hasn't learned the lessons from his first spell in charge and is blinded by loyalty to certain players.

On the COC rumours, I also heard that he may be out for a good while yet.

Jason Doherty historically has been the backup free taker but he's gone off the boil in this regard.

We've had several options tried for frees taken off the right side.

Kevin Mc many moons ago used to take them but he's never enjoyed taking them nor been particularly successful at same.

I was talking to a lad last night and he said he takes the frees for Knockmore. I'm sure he takes some but Peter Naughton is their main taker.

Evan Regan has on occasion taken frees most especially off the right hand side with mixed results.

TBF I thought he'd one of his better outings in the green and red last night and Coen was our main threat yet even he was hit and miss.

Niall Douglas is the Mitchels free taker alongside David Stenson.

TBH in spite of a drop in his conversion rate Cillian is by a country mile our best free taker and main threat from play.

He's so sorely missed,he really can't come back quick enough.

PressRun

km79 wrote: »

It’s a HUGE worry now
I have to say the lads arguing his diminishing importance and the morons saying he may not even start have gone quiet

It is certainly a worry.
It's funny cos you often hear things through the grapevine when a player is close to returning, but there doesn't seem to be much talk at all about Cillian and where he's at in his recovery.

PressRun

seligehgit wrote: »

Jason Doherty historically has been the backup free taker but he's gone off the boil in this regard.

Jason has had some good days on them, 2017 semi final being one, but not reliable enough. Obviously free taking is not an exact science, but he has a sort of odd technique that doesn't always work.
He also took a knock the last night and wasnt right after it. He probably should have been taken off then.

km79

PressRun wrote: »

Jason has had some good days on them, 2017 semi final being one, but not reliable enough. Obviously free taking is not an exact science, but he has a sort of odd technique that doesn't always work.
He also took a knock the last night and wasnt right after it. He probably should have been taken off then.

Which made the decision to take off Regan much earlier baffling

Robson99

Syferus wrote: »

This is total nonsense. It was the match saving free facing into wind and heavy rain, out near the sideline. It wasn’t a routine kick by any measure. You either weren’t at the match, don’t understand what those conditions do when you’re trying to set your feet for a kick or you know a lot of fûcking superhuman 14 year old.

Its on the 21 10 yds to the right of the post. Actually I'dsay most 12 year olds would fancy it. Stop making excuses for him bottling it. It was a shocking miss

Audioslaven

Robson99 wrote: »

Its on the 21 10 yds to the right of the post. Actually I'dsay most 12 year olds would fancy it. Stop making excuses for him bottling it. It was a shocking miss

Yes it was a bad miss. Mcloughlin was shaking his head before DOC was looking for him. it was very clear he did not want to take it. I have no issue with him as he has/and will be a fantastic player for us. The miss is not the issue in this game

The real problem is conceding soft goals and in particular a gift with RH. We need to stop acting the clown with goalies and use the best goalie (Clarke).
I would have pulled higgins off straight after that goal and put in EOD. Horan needs to make some calls like this to get players in line for what they need to do

franklyon

Exactly. If you see a problem/mismatch/somebody just not at the races either switch things around on the pitch or pull them off.
If it was up to me i would have pulled Higgins off put Diarmuid into midfield as he was having zero impact up front and pushed AOS full forward.

May or may not have worked but it would have made things a lot less predictable.

RedDevil55

franklyon wrote: »

Exactly. If you see a problem/mismatch/somebody just not at the races either switch things around on the pitch or pull them off.
If it was up to me i would have pulled Higgins off put Diarmuid into midfield as he was having zero impact up front and pushed AOS full forward.

May or may not have worked but it would have made things a lot less predictable.

Aidan in midfield was the one thing that was 100% working. It would have been outrageous to change that.

No way should Regan have been the 1st forward off. He had scored a point from play and was doing his stuff from frees. We missed 2 on his side after he was hooked.

On the issue of freetakers outside Cillian, I think Loftus and Regan are the most reliable on the panel. Not perfect but I don't remember them missing many sitters. I've never trusted Jason Doc tbh. His style of play is very physically demanding which must lead him to be gassed for some kicks.

Barlett

James Horan said all our injured players with the exception of Tom Parsons will be back in full training next week .

Sebastian Dangerfield

Excuse the stupid question but can a player who has been subbed (not a temp sub) be put back onto the field? I assumed not, but Ive heard a few people talk about throwing Regan back in for the free

Bonzo Delaney

Who do Mayo play in their qualifier folks
Wasn't mentioned in the draw this morning

km79

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Excuse the stupid question but can a player who has been subbed (not a temp sub) be put back onto the field? I assumed not, but Ive heard a few people talk about throwing Regan back in for the free

Yes

km79

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Who do Mayo play in their qualifier folks
Wasn't mentioned in the draw this morning

Not in round 1

Bonzo Delaney

Ah yeah thanks

Fr Tod Umptious

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Excuse the stupid question but can a player who has been subbed (not a temp sub) be put back onto the field? I assumed not, but Ive heard a few people talk about throwing Regan back in for the free

They certainly can.

Famously done by Tyrone in the 2003 final where they took off Canavan, gave him a rest and put him back on.

yop

Frustrating to say the least, those who needed to pull out the big games imploded. Robbie had one great game in the league final but has reverted to form with Saturdays performance. Can't be trusted not to mess up and that will kill our backline. Also his conversion rate now can't leave him in that position to take frees.
Rossies forwards are some of the best out there, and while I expected them to take us on I didn't see it been that easy.
Poor performances from our most experienced players but hats off to Coen, quality scores and was easily our top forward.
Horan did his usual and hasn't learned from his years watching us in the studios.

We are still in the championship and it would be silly to rule us out. But it will come down to the reaction of Horan now around the goalkeeper, sticking with a free taker and shifting it from one to the next. His subs were much too late and a kick in the teeth to seeing Andy come in ahead of some of them.

As for the Galway lads on here celebrating, Cox will have a field day with that FB line, so don't go counting too many chickens just yet, but Galway won't have 17 wides so should still win.

Brolly performance last night was very poor to say the least, for someone who gets a regular bed in Mayo he really is burning bridges. If we get him in the masters this year he'll certainly get the attention he is seeking

km79

Monaghan drew Fermanagh in round one
Nasty enough draw
Would rather avoid the winners of that one in round 2

yop

km79 wrote: »

Monaghan drew Fermanagh in round one
Nasty enough draw
Would rather avoid the winners of that one in round 2

And you know we won't

Loafing Oaf

km79 wrote: »

Monaghan drew Fermanagh in round one
Nasty enough draw
Would rather avoid the winners of that one in round 2

Ulster teams are generally the ones to avoid in the early rounds of the qualifiers. Down probably next to Monaghan among that lot.

Padkir

yop wrote: »

Frustrating to say the least, those who needed to pull out the big games imploded. Robbie had one great game in the league final but has reverted to form with Saturdays performance. Can't be trusted not to mess up and that will kill our backline. Also his conversion rate now can't leave him in that position to take frees.
Rossies forwards are some of the best out there, and while I expected them to take us on I didn't see it been that easy.
Poor performances from our most experienced players but hats off to Coen, quality scores and was easily our top forward.
Horan did his usual and hasn't learned from his years watching us in the studios.

We are still in the championship and it would be silly to rule us out. But it will come down to the reaction of Horan now around the goalkeeper, sticking with a free taker and shifting it from one to the next. His subs were much too late and a kick in the teeth to seeing Andy come in ahead of some of them.

As for the Galway lads on here celebrating, Cox will have a field day with that FB line, so don't go counting too many chickens just yet, but Galway won't have 17 wides so should still win.

Brolly performance last night was very poor to say the least, for someone who gets a regular bed in Mayo he really is burning bridges. If we get him in the masters this year he'll certainly get the attention he is seeking

I've seen the above bolded bit a few times now, but Andy came from the bench, won almost every ball sent his way and kicked one good score as part of the comeback. I know he was blocked down for what ended up being the winning point for Roscommon on the counter, but it's not like he came on and did nothing. He made an impact, as he would have been expected to. And as much of an impact as anyone else on the bench would have or did.

I also think some of the criticism of Harrison is unfair. Cox is a class act and the 3 points he kicked were superb. One on one, I don't think anyone in the country would have done a better job. Coen kicked 5 points from play up the other end, and I didn't see his man being singled out for criticism.

Overall, obviously really disappointed with the result, but Roscommon were well up for that game and we've seen before that they can do damage when they're in that mood. Even despite that, Mayo could and probably should have won with the amount of wides they kicked and the poor 2nd goal conceded, but these things happen.

Best of luck to Roscommon and I am looking forward to the qualifiers.

jr86

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Ulster teams are generally the ones to avoid in the early rounds of the qualifiers. Down probably next to Monaghan among that lot.

Draw is:

Louth v Antrim
Down v Tipperary
Leitrim v Wicklow
Wexford v Derry
Offaly v London
Monaghan v Fermanagh
Carlow v Kildare/Longford
Westmeath v Waterford

Monaghan obviously the one to avoid there, but the winner of Down and Tipp could well be tricky too

Even Westmeath, Longford or Derry could potentially push Mayo at home, on a good day.

That said should be surely navigating this round but will only get trickier

charlie14

jr86 wrote: »

Draw is:

Louth v Antrim
Down v Tipperary
Leitrim v Wicklow
Wexford v Derry
Offaly v London
Monaghan v Fermanagh
Carlow v Kildare/Longford
Westmeath v Waterford

Monaghan obviously the one to avoid there, but the winner of Down and Tipp could well be tricky too

Even Westmeath, Longford or Derry could potentially push Mayo at home, on a good day.

That said should be surely navigating this round but will only get trickier

If ye are destined to meet the winner of Monaghan v Fermanagh, for the sake of your supporters and your players mental well-being, best to meet Monaghan.

km79

Padkir wrote: »

I've seen the above bolded bit a few times now, but Andy came from the bench, won almost every ball sent his way and kicked one good score as part of the comeback. I know he was blocked down for what ended up being the winning point for Roscommon on the counter, but it's not like he came on and did nothing. He made an impact, as he would have been expected to. And as much of an impact as anyone else on the bench would have or did.

.

He also ludicrously kicked a scoreable free off his hands up into the air whilst Hennelly was coming up to take it. I think we were either a point up or level at this stage. Absolutely no guarantees Hennelly would have scored it but it was a crazy crazy decision from such an experienced player and something he has a habit of doing when he comes on. Add that to the stupid kick he had blocked down which lead to their winning score and I think he was very poor.
He certainly has not proved to be the impact sib we all hoped he would.
Generally his impact has been negative.
It may be a year too far

Barlett

km79 wrote: »

He also ludicrously kicked a scoreable free off his hands up into the air whilst Hennelly was coming up to take it. I think we were either a point up or level at this stage. Absolutely no guarantees Hennelly would have scored it but it was a crazy crazy decision from such an experienced player and something he has a habit of doing when he comes on. Add that to the stupid kick he had blocked down which lead to their winning score and I think he was very poor.
He certainly has not proved to be the impact sib we all hoped he would.
Generally his impact has been negative.
It may be a year too far

That was Jason Doherty, Andy didn't take any frees on Saturday.

Padkir

km79 wrote: »

He also ludicrously kicked a scoreable free off his hands up into the air whilst Hennelly was coming up to take it. I think we were either a point up or level at this stage. Absolutely no guarantees Hennelly would have scored it but it was a crazy crazy decision from such an experienced player and something he has a habit of doing when he comes on. Add that to the stupid kick he had blocked down which lead to their winning score and I think he was very poor.
He certainly has not proved to be the impact sib we all hoped he would.
Generally his impact has been negative.
It may be a year too far

I think the decision was a correct one - he was trying to play it short to ???(someone I can't remember, who had come short and was in front of their man), he just made a mess of the pass. Given Hennelly had missed 3 or 4 at that stage, I don't think it was necessarily the wrong decision, just poor execution.

km79

Barlett wrote: »

That was Jason Doherty, Andy didn't take any frees on Saturday.

He did
It was right in front of me
Doc May even have been subbed at this stage

Carol25

Padkir wrote: »

I've seen the above bolded bit a few times now, but Andy came from the bench, won almost every ball sent his way and kicked one good score as part of the comeback. I know he was blocked down for what ended up being the winning point for Roscommon on the counter, but it's not like he came on and did nothing. He made an impact, as he would have been expected to. And as much of an impact as anyone else on the bench would have or did.

I also think some of the criticism of Harrison is unfair. Cox is a class act and the 3 points he kicked were superb. One on one, I don't think anyone in the country would have done a better job. Coen kicked 5 points from play up the other end, and I didn't see his man being singled out for criticism.

Overall, obviously really disappointed with the result, but Roscommon were well up for that game and we've seen before that they can do damage when they're in that mood. Even despite that, Mayo could and probably should have won with the amount of wides they kicked and the poor 2nd goal conceded, but these things happen.

Best of luck to Roscommon and I am looking forward to the qualifiers.

Andy Moran has been a great servant to Mayo and still has something to offer in e.g. the last 10 minutes of a game. But that's it, he's 36. He's a lot of miles on the clock, there are forwards that showed in the League campaign who could've come on. If Mayo are to progress and become a serious outfit they need to play their new younger forwards and allow them to develop into the Andy Moran's of the future. Ciaran Treacy showed courage and amazing skill in the League final by netting that winning goal. Look at Diarmuid O'Connor's goal effort Saturday evening as an example as to why Mayo need to play their younger forwards.

Barlett

km79 wrote: »

He did
It was right in front of me
Doc May even have been subbed at this stage

My mistake, I thought you were talking about one where he shot for goals.