Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

yop

Green&Red wrote: »

COC V Dublin
2012 - 0-7
2013 - 0-8
2015 - 1-9
2015 - 1-6
2016 - 0-7 (Including the kick on the buzzer to draw)
2016 - 0-9
2017 - 0-7
2019 - 0-3

This narrative that Cillian only does it against Sligo and Leitrim is a joke, that’s close to an 8 point average, by Sunday he’ll have played 15% of his games against Dublin.
Even I’m surprised to see that his average score versus Dublin (7.75) is higher than his championship scoring average versus the remaining counties (7.12)

Unfortunately you will still have those simpletons who will still argue against that.
Even the Dubs glorify a free taker, but yet when Its COC its a different reaction, sad isn't it.

https://www.wearedublin.com/football/rocks-free-kick-statistics-show-his-importance-to-dublin/

Coen on Fenton could be interesting. He has the physical attributes to handle him and he is a quality but yet not glorified player.

Horan usually pulls some rabbit out of the hat.

PARlance

I woke up this morning and I started to BELIEVE!

RedDevil55

BenThornley wrote: »

From play, just for clarity and to those wondering.

2012: 0-1
2013: 0-0
2015 Drawn Game: 0-0
2015 Replay: 1-1
2016 Drawn Game: 0-2
2016 Replay: 0-0
2017: 0-3
2019: 0-1

So in 1-8 from play across eight games. Three times held scoreless and averages out at a point per game from play with a goal coming one in every eight games. Take nothing away from his free-taking but the greats do it from play against the very best. COC is an elite free-taker, one of the best forwards to ever play Gaelic football? I’m not so sure.

In contrast, David Clifford scored 0-6 from play between drawn game and replay alone last year v the Dubs. Brian Fenton a midfielder has scored 1-5 in six games against Mayo for a very similar record which is telling in itself.

Yes but 1-2 of Fenton's scores against mayo came last year and the replay in 2015. They were both hammerings so the scores don't count. At least that's the logic I hear with Cillian.

RedDevil55

dockysher wrote: »

coen isnt a third of the player fenton is, people are delusional if they think coen can stop fenton

Jack Barry has kept Fenton quiet in several games. That's the job we need someone to do.

yop

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Yes but 1-2 of Fenton's scores against mayo came last year and the replay in 2015. They were both hammerings so the scores don't count. At least that's the logic I hear with Cillian.

And Keegan has outscored Connolly yet he is the bestestest ever.
Good to see a new reg today to tell us those stats.
Wonder who has re-reg'd

BandMember

Green&Red wrote: »

Ah Ref reckons Coen could be put on Fenton, not the worst idea, great engine, can completely sacrifice his own game to neutralise one of their best players

That's an interesting theory and one I wouldn't completely rule out. However, there are two things that I would wonder about it:

1. Would Coen have the pace to match him? Wouldn't argue that he could compete with him in all other areas in order to do an excellent nullifying job, but this might be a worry. Mobility, yes. Pace, I'm not so sure. For the record, I'm a fan of this guy - ultimate team player and completely underrated. You don't get to be the captain of multiple All-Ireland winning teams by not having something about you....

2. If this did happen, that would necessitate moving Coen from CB to MF, moving one of the lads from MF to the half forward line and then another move one of the lads selected there. That's a lot of musical chairs.....and that's before you even ask the question who plays CHB instead of Coen/who moves back to the defence and where they would fit in.... I suppose the obvious answer is that Kevin McLoughlin moves back, but to CHB? Who would his match up be? I'd imagine that Keegan will go against Kilkenny wherever he goes, so would probably start at CHB.

Given Horan's well established refusal in the past to change his team/style of play to match the opposition (a la Rochford) as he allegedly sees it as a sign of weakness, do we really think that he's going to do a major reshuffle of a winning team all of a sudden for an All-Ireland Final?? I have my doubts...

kilns wrote: »

Out of interest how many are from dead balls?

...........is a question that you would never ask about Dean Rock on any of the Dubs forums...... :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious

BandMember wrote: »

That's an interesting theory and one I wouldn't completely rule out. However, there are two things that I would wonder about it:

1. Would Coen have the pace to match him? Wouldn't argue that he could compete with him in all other areas in order to do an excellent nullifying job, but this might be a worry. Mobility, yes. Pace, I'm not so sure. For the record, I'm a fan of this guy - ultimate team player and completely underrated. You don't get to be the captain of multiple All-Ireland winning teams by not having something about you....

2. If this did happen, that would necessitate moving Coen from CB to MF, moving one of the lads from MF to the half forward line and then another move one of the lads selected there. That's a lot of musical chairs.....and that's before you even ask the question who plays CHB instead of Coen/who moves back to the defence and where they would fit in.... I suppose the obvious answer is that Kevin McLoughlin moves back, but to CHB? Who would his match up be? I'd imagine that Keegan will go against Kilkenny wherever he goes, so would probably start at CHB.

Given Horan's well established refusal in the past to change his team/style of play to match the opposition (a la Rochford) as he allegedly sees it as a sign of weakness, do we really think that he's going to do a major reshuffle of a winning team all of a sudden for an All-Ireland Final?? I have my doubts...



...........is a question that you would never ask about Dean Rock on any of the Dubs forums...... :rolleyes:

no

muddle84

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

no

Thats the worry isn't it?

spakman

muddle84 wrote: »

Thats the worry isn't it?

A worry that he's not going to do a major reshuffle for the final?
No - it would be far more worrying if he did.

kilns

Green&Red wrote: »

Was it a genuine question though?

Because you say “ it remains to be seen if WE have enough to trouble Dublin”

By its not WE is it, you’re a dub as far as I can see, certainly not from Mayo, so it’s just more trolling, what’s new ?

Can someone not ask a geniune question with out being shot down and people being so touchy about it

Green&Red

yop wrote: »

And Keegan has outscored Connolly yet he is the bestestest ever.
Good to see a new reg today to tell us those stats.
Wonder who has re-reg'd

It couldn’t possibly be a re-reg Yop

The week before an All-Ireland the amount of trolls circling to pick at your bloody carcass is hilarious. Don’t worry lads there’ll be enough bottlers, not a marquee forward, cheater insulted to go around


Speaking of which, I see the Shinner spokesman on sport was out earlier this week

https://twitter.com/chrisandrews64/status/1335638130481901568?s=21

Hopefully Rose Conway’s voters remember this

Green&Red

kilns wrote: »

Can someone not ask a geniune question with out being shot down and people being so touchy about it

I’ve just pointed out that it wasn’t genuine though


You’re not “WE” are you?

So why use that pronoun if it’s not to troll?


WE have enough trolls in here to be able to spot them a mile off

Blackjack

kilns wrote: »

Can someone not ask a geniune question with out being shot down and people being so touchy about it

The problem is that somehow many of his detractors (usually from a particular county with a huge population) seem to think that scores from frees don’t count as much, or are easy or something. Anytime anyone mentions Cillian’s scoring records all you get is “how many from frees, how many from the left, how many from the right, how many this that or the other” as if somehow a 13 yard free is worth less on the scoreboard than a shot taken to draw a game from the 45.
The stats are there for anyone to see, the records are there for anyone to see. his record score in a championship game last Sunday (where he out scored the entire Tipp team while he was on the pitch) is met with “soft goals, poor opposition blah blah blah”.

He’s an outstanding player, the records he holds should be enough for anyone to see that. However there’s a large vocal cohort of idiots, some former players themselves, who won’t see it because they don’t like him. Fair enough if people don’t like him but it would be refreshing to see if the same detractors at least have the intelligence and good grace not to be blindsided by hatred to see how good a player he is.

The intelligence seems to be the biggest factor missing in those that continually express negative views of him though.

RedDevil55

Blackjack wrote: »

The problem is that somehow many of his detractors (usually from a particular county with a huge population) seem to think that scores from frees don’t count as much, or are easy or something. Anytime anyone mentions Cillian’s scoring records all you get is “how many from frees, how many from the left, how many from the right, how many this that or the other” as if somehow a 13 yard free is worth less on the scoreboard than a shot taken to draw a game from the 45.
The stats are there for anyone to see, the records are there for anyone to see. his record score in a championship game last Sunday (where he out scored the entire Tipp team while he was on the pitch) is met with “soft goals, poor opposition blah blah blah”.

He’s an outstanding player, the records he holds should be enough for anyone to see that. However there’s a large vocal cohort of idiots, some former players themselves, who won’t see it because they don’t like him. Fair enough if people don’t like him but it would be refreshing to see if the same detractors at least have the intelligence and good grace not to be blindsided by hatred to see how good a player he is.

The intelligence seems to be the biggest factor missing in those that continually express negative views of him though.

That's it in a nutshell, but you also have to remember he contributes a lot apart from scoring. He played an inch perfect kick pass into Conroy for his mark the last day and I don't think there's a forward in the country who wins more turnovers than him.

Blackjack

RedDevil55 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell, but you also have to remember he contributes a lot apart from scoring. He played an inch perfect kick pass into Conroy for his mark the last day and I don't think there's a forward in the country who wins more turnovers than him.

Again a crucial factor in what makes a good player but for many they don’t have the brains to see that either.

pawdee

I have a funny feeling that Mayo are going to win the All-Ireland this year. On the law of averages alone surely be to God ye have to win one sooner or later. Ye just keep coming back for more and you have to admire that. Ok, it's hard to look past Dublin, they're an amazing team hats off to them, (and that's from a Kerryman) but for me there's something about Mayo this year.

I know ye shipped a heap of scores against Tipp but that was when ye were home and hosed. Against Galway you had the lad McLauglin haul down Kelly at the end. I'm not condoning it but by jaze when I saw it I said that's the ruthless streak ye need. Aside from that he looks like a fella with a bit of drive to him and I think he's a mighty player.

I know I'm probably talking a load of b****x here but I think on a wet, windy evening, hardly anyone in Croke Park, massive underdogs, game turns into a bit of a dogfight (insert clichès here....................) will Dublin have the stomach for it? Probably..... but you never know. For what it's worth I gave Cork a great chance against us and people laughed at me. I just have a funny feeling.

It'll be a right old balls that the supporters won't be there and please tell me the GAA are joking about the cup not being allowed home with the winning team? Yerra for feck's sake give Sam a quick rub of a few W5 wipes and hit the road home with him. Wishing ye all the best.

WesternZulu

pawdee wrote: »

I have a funny feeling that Mayo are going to win the All-Ireland this year. On the law of averages alone surely be to God ye have to win one sooner or later. Ye just keep coming back for more and you have to admire that. Ok, it's hard to look past Dublin, they're an amazing team hats off to them, (and that's from a Kerryman) but for me there's something about Mayo this year.

We have been in 17 finals and won only 3. This will be our 10th finals since 1989, including replays, and obviously didn't win any.
The law of averages has deserted Mayo for a long time now.

km79

Green&Red wrote: »

This is the issue with Coen


Lads that don’t have a clue about football underestimate him. Captain of minor, U-21 and Sigerson winning teams. That Sigerson team had Jimmy Feehan, Jack Barry, Conor McCarthy and Con O’Callaghan on it


Not half the player Fenton is but he’s such an effective man when given a job. He’s well capable of nullifying Fenton

Agree 100%

km79

PARlance wrote: »

I woke up this morning and I started to BELIEVE!

SomethingElse

RedDevil55 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell, but you also have to remember he contributes a lot apart from scoring. He played an inch perfect kick pass into Conroy for his mark the last day and I don't think there's a forward in the country who wins more turnovers than him.

He's also the all time top scorer in the history of Championship football, and he's still only 28.

franklyon

km79 wrote: »

I might need another week. At the moment I am feeling it's a step too far for us but will be delighted if I'm wrong.

km79

franklyon wrote: »

I might need another week. At the moment I am feeling it's a step too far for us but will be delighted if I'm wrong.

I think we need to perform 10/10
Dublin 7/10
And we need a bit of luck

In a one off game that’s all possible
What has given me more hope this time is that our main strength appears to be score getting .
That’s what ultimately has cost us in most finals .
Yes it is a double edged sword in that we are no doubt more vulnerable defensively but Feck it we are in pure bonus territory
Let’s go for it !!!!!
Horan Ball it is
Let’s rock

ooter

You just never know. I remember being delighted that Dublin had finally got to a final in 2011 and didn't give them much chance of winning, I honestly thought the only way they could win on the day was to take the lead so late on that there would be no time for Dublin to panic or Kerry to equalise and so it came to pass.
Could the same happen next week, of course it could.

gormdubhgorm

I was wondering if Mayo people can think up likely 'left field' plans Horan might come up with?

In my head he always seems to try something unexpected. Is it likely he will stick to the status quo or obvious moves? Or will he concoct something to try and bamboozle the Dublin sideline?

One that sticks in my mind is David Clarke dropped for Rob Henelley back in the 2016 Final.
I know it did not work on the day. But Horan always seems like the kind of fella who is willing to try something different if he believes it will improve Mayo's chances of winning.

SomethingElse

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was wondering if Mayo people can think up likely 'left field' plans Horan might come up with?

In my head he always seems to try something unexpected. Is it likely he will stick to the status quo or obvious moves? Or will he concoct something to try and bamboozle the Dublin sideline?

One that sticks in my mind is David Clarke dropped for Rob Henelley back in the 2016 Final.
I know it did not work on the day. But Horan always seems like the kind of fella who is willing to try something different if he believes it will improve Mayo's chances of winning.

That wasn't Horan

Green&Red

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was wondering if Mayo people can think up likely 'left field' plans Horan might come up with?

In my head he always seems to try something unexpected. Is it likely he will stick to the status quo or obvious moves? Or will he concoct something to try and bamboozle the Dublin sideline?

One that sticks in my mind is David Clarke dropped for Rob Henelley back in the 2016 Final.
I know it did not work on the day. But Horan always seems like the kind of fella who is willing to try something different if he believes it will improve Mayo's chances of winning.

Gorm, Horan is the least likely man to spring a surprise. The one thing the dubs do know is exactly how we’ll set up and go at the game. We’ll try and run the legs off teams, make the pitch wider, kick it into our FF line if there’s space or else work it over and back the pitch if there’s not


Edit: and for the record that’s what a genuine question looks like!

gormdubhgorm

SomethingElse wrote: »

That wasn't Horan

Ah that explains it so. That was Rochford. I am getting everything mixed up!

gormdubhgorm

Green&Red wrote: »

Gorm, Horan is the least likely man to spring a surprise. The one thing the dubs do know is exactly how we’ll set up and go at the game. We’ll try and run the legs off teams, make the pitch wider, kick it into our FF line if there’s space or else work it over and back the pitch if there’s not


Edit: and for the record that’s what a genuine question looks like!

Well if I was Mayo I would be working on something, just to make Dublin think a bit at some stage.

As I feel Dessie Farrell on the sideline for Dublin has been having a nice handy time of things so far. If Dublin go a man down for example like they did v Kerry last year. Would Dessie be as cute at counter-acting it as Jim Gavin was?
And what would Horan do with the spare man that type of thing.

Green&Red

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well if I was Mayo I would be working on something, just to make Dublin think a bit at some stage.

As I feel Dessie Farrell on the sideline for Dublin has been having a nice handy time of things so far. If Dublin go a man down for example like they did v Kerry last year. Would Dessie be as cute at counter-acting it as Jim Gavin was?
And what would Horan do with the spare man that type of thing.

Gavin’s biggest strength was his ability to think of the fly.

In game management is probably Horan’s biggest weakness. The ‘13 final, dubs had two players injured comes immediately to mind. He moved Higgins out of the HF line when he was causing Dublin all kinds of trouble in that match also. Panicked to get Conroy on for Freeman

gormdubhgorm

Green&Red wrote: »

Gavin’s biggest strength was his ability to think of the fly.

In game management is probably Horan’s biggest weakness. The ‘13 final, dubs had two players injured comes immediately to mind. He moved Higgins out of the HF line when he was causing Dublin all kinds of trouble in that match also. Panicked to get Conroy on for Freeman

Jayus, you are not really selling Horan's sideline strength's much!
I was thinking surely he learnt a trick or two from his time at SKY - transitions, offloads and all that jazz?