Discovery 2x08 "If Memory Serves"

Johnny Storm

I just re-watched it and I still think its excellent second time round

It was a really audacious move to work in "the Cage" like that. It could have gone so badly wrong but IMHO they pulled it off beautifully.
That scene where they cut from Jeffrey Hunter to Anson Mount is just fantastic.
I never previously thought they even looked that much alike? but what an impact that cut has.

"previously on Star Trek" from 50 friggin' years ago ?!?!?!?! Fantastic! :D:D:D

On the other hand - minor nitpick - they refer to the possible end of all sentient life and that "millions" of lives are at risk. Surely they mean trillions / gazillions? More JJ-style dumbing-down? :rolleyes:

CramCycle

Slydice wrote: »

That was a really cool episode! Spock, what a legend!
Damn that was cold of Burnham!
Overall the Talos IV story was done well.

Then like.. the Culbur and Tyler story going on!

AND this overall Section 31/Red Angel/Airiam plot. What is that next episode preview about! Going up against 31 and mines.. seems like a really bad idea.

Can we just sensor the next episode bits?!?

Spear

CramCycle wrote: »

Can we just sensor the next episode bits?!?

I've done so in my quoted text.

The previews really do spoil the next episodes, and I regret watching them. And yet I never learn to stop doing so.

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

That was a really cool episode! Spock, what a legend!
Damn that was cold of Burnham!
Overall the Talos IV story was done well.

Then like.. the Culbur and Tyler story going on!

AND this overall Section 31/Red Angel/Airiam plot. What is that next episode preview about!

Going up against 31 and mines.. seems like a really bad idea.

For feck sake. This thread is about the episode aired. Why can't you start a thread about the next episode to discuss the preview??

corkie

geecee wrote: »

Melissa George played the part of "Angel" in Home & Away
Could she be the Red angel after spending too much time on the beach in Summer Bay?
(sorry couldn't resist! But thank you Corkie for identifying the actress!

More recently "Marilyn Garbanza" in 'The Good Wife' (2014), probably where I remembered her from.
and "Dr. Alexandra Panttiere" in 'Heartbeat' (2016)

Home and away was her first credit role back in (1993-1996)

GSPfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For feck sake. This thread is about the episode aired. Why can't you start a thread about the next episode to discuss the preview??

Bit rude and also a bit harsh, no?

The preview is technically part of the episode so can you blame anyone for commenting on it. A simple curtesy request to spoiler tag it might get the result you desire as i doubt the poster was intentionally trying to annoy you.

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

Bit rude and also a bit harsh, no?

The preview is technically part of the episode so can you blame anyone for commenting on it. A simple curtesy request to spoiler tag it might get the result you desire as i doubt the poster was intentionally trying to annoy you.

It's not part of the episode. It's an extra. Is it after the credits on Netflix?

Not rude, I'm not calling the poster any names, insulting them or such.
Just literally saying "ah feck sake".

People have asked, in previous threads to (at the least) spoiler any information about future episodes, including previews, but here we are again

TheValeyard

It's the agnoy booth for ye!!

ShaneU

As someone who hasn't watched the original series, the Pike/Vina relationship in this episode would have made no sense to me. Didn't even know Pike was in that series at all.

ShaneU

ShaneU wrote: »

As someone who hasn't watched the original series, the Pike/Vina relationship in this episode would have made no sense to me. Didn't even know Pike was in that series at all.

Yeah it does take a lot on faith that you're knowledgeable of the lore.

My wife was lost. We needed to pause for a few minutes to explain

TheValeyard

ShaneU wrote: »

As someone who hasn't watched the original series, the Pike/Vina relationship in this episode would have made no sense to me. Didn't even know Pike was in that series at all.

Emmmmmmm. His future is........interesting

GSPfan

ShaneU wrote: »

As someone who hasn't watched the original series, the Pike/Vina relationship in this episode would have made no sense to me. Didn't even know Pike was in that series at all.

I thought that was the beauty of the starting piece. It reminded people who knew about it but prompted people to go look it up if they didn’t.

fritzelly

Loved the episode, and thought how the intro was done was brilliant

Missed the bit about AI controlling S31 (too much going on), will have to rewatch

Franz Von Peppercorn

fritzelly wrote: »

Loved the episode, and thought how the intro was done was brilliant

Missed the bit about AI controlling S31 (too much going on), will have to rewatch

I think georgiou said in her timeline she was the master of AI, not the reverse. It’s not clear how accurate that is. If you think about it though Star Trek in general (outside discovery) doesn’t make that much use of AI, the odd android or holographic doctor aside.

The onboard Computer is about as useful as Siri. Voice commands for controlling lights, red alerts, finding people onboard and later on the replicator.

The ship is driven by humans and the scientific analysis is largely done by humans.

pixelburp

At first I was a bit underwhelmed by the reveal of what the rift between Spock and Burnham was, but on reflection it kinda worked; it was an emotional scar between siblings, a deep cut at Spock's own insecurities - which worked more than some great Deed or McGuffin.

The Talos throwbacks, Vina included was handled well and the "previously on" was a nice nod to the shows history. Again Pike played a blinder, it'll be a great shame when he gives up the chair as he has given the ship and show much needed decency in its core.

As to the Red Angel / Airium, I'm leaning towards the Borg too at this stage. And here's a hint: way before the show aired there was chatter between 2 FX guys for Discovery, and they spitballed how cool it WOULD be if they redesigned the Borg with modern sensibilities. Came up on the forum here, and I poopooed the idea as just pros having a chat; but as this season goes on i wonder if they actually, accidentally revealed the season 2 Big Bad.

Spear

The flatout annihilation of all organic life doesn't suggest borg to me.

And I hope it isn't. They've already had some fairly major references to past episodes/characters, and I'd prefer they don't fall into the same writing trap that Star Trek Online did, where absolutely everything is connected to everything else in a very contrived manner.

pixelburp

No, the annihilation element does raise a red flag about it being the Borg (that and the ships don't look like spheres).

Another potential, given the time travel element, would be a closed loop situation: a rogue AI from the future that exists because it fell into the past, infected Airium, and caused its own eventual gestation.

pixelburp

Aside from the arc, while the Culber story isn't particularly striking, Anthony Rapps continuing heartbroken, helpless expression is just breaking my own heart.

As I said that subplot doesn't seem to be going anywhere (though I approve of any character beating the snot outta Tyler), but Rapp sells it purely by dint of almost manic desperation. I feel sorry for the guy...

liamtech

pixelburp wrote: »

No, the annihilation element does raise a red flag about it being the Borg (that and the ships don't look like spheres).

Another potential, given the time travel element, would be a closed loop situation: a rogue AI from the future that exists because it fell into the past, infected Airium, and caused its own eventual gestation.

And perhaps it became section 31s control? definitely possible

for me i just hope the red angel doesnt turn out to be Burnham - im more worried about that aspect of the story

Spear

The AI is searching for something that's not revealed yet. And apparently it isn't Burnham since Airiam didn't try and stove her head in at first sight.

Control deciding it eventually knows better and wiping out everyone as a possible threat would also provide grounds for officially shutting down S31, leaving only some diehards going.

I'm kinda curious about whether the short treks play any more into this. The Saru had to have been co-ordinated with main series, as aside from the plot's being in sync, they also used the same sets and prosthetics. And among the short treks was one were a sentient AI was running things with the Discovery left abandoned for a millennium.

corkie

Some theories already posted in earlier threads.

@Spear

Red Angel maybe the AI from future episode.
^^^ Ruled out because it is human!

Spock or agents of playing with time as the red angel.

I ruled out Micheal as the red angel because how would she prevent her own death as a child. I known "time wibbly wobbly stuff"

Spock mind meld with it, so should have sensed if future self or Micheal in suit.

It is possible that the BAD AI attacking thing is created from the future AI episode. Not liking been abandon in the future for so long, but didn't get that impression from the short. Edit:- Bad AI is separate Identity than Red Angel, suit could still have been created from AI from future disco.




BAD Theories below!

All of Season 2 is taking place in Pike's head on Talos IV?
Time rewrites so the whole of discovery arc (Both Seasons), never happened.

fritzelly

corkie wrote: »

All of Season 2 is taking place in Pike's head on Talos IV?

We're not doing Dallas here

TheValeyard

fritzelly wrote: »

We're not doing Dallas here

Unless Discovery is inside the head of a Dallas character, which is inside the head of a writer in our world, which is inside the mind of the actual real world.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Unless Discovery is inside the head of a Dallas character, which is inside the head of a writer in our world, which is inside the mind of the actual real world.

All inside a snow globe in St Elsewhere, inside Tommy Westphall's snowglobe

OldMrBrennan83

I missed the whole AI part. Which bit was it in?

fritzelly

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I missed the whole AI part. Which bit was it in?

Rewatched it and all I could find was a bit about a computer generated threat analysis (Spock I assume) and Georgiou saying she told AI's what to do not follow them blindly (not word for word)

OldMrBrennan83

fritzelly wrote: »

Rewatched it and all I could find was a bit about a computer generated threat analysis (Spock I assume) and Georgiou saying she told AI's what to do not rely on them

Was that it? I thought I'd missed something but that's just people making a massive leap.

fritzelly

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Was that it? I thought I'd missed something but that's just people making a massive leap.

That's what I thought initially too lol

Spear

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I missed the whole AI part. Which bit was it in?

It's been referred to a few times, though not in any detail.

Ep 6. 49:00 onwards, Ash refers to Control.
Ep 8. 1:30 onwards, Georgiou plus various admirals refer to Control.

I was sure there was an earlier reference to it by Ash but I can't find it now.

fritzelly

Spear wrote: »

It's been referred to a few times, though not in any detail.

Ep 6. 49:00 onwards, Ash refers to Control.
Ep 8. 1:30 onwards, Georgiou plus various admirals refer to Control.

I was sure there was an earlier reference to it by Ash but I can't find it now.

Is that not just the 4 admirals giving them orders, wouldn't make sense to be completely controlled by an AI telling them what to do - such a thing doesn't exist in the future (at least within Starfleet)