Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

aloyisious

Looking at today's N.I court ruling that N.I,s existing law on abortion is not in compliance with the U.K human rights commitments, and the chances that the DUP got together with SF, got the assembly up & running and got a joint agreement to introduce some anti-abortion legislation that skirts the stated non-compliance before the 22nd deadline, it looks like the chance that roadblocks can be put up by the DUP to the UK Govt legislation are slim.

The only thing that could happen is if Boris and the DUP made some deal in their recent chat on the other hot issue and supporting him in parliament, and Boris himself managed to pull the UK abortion-provision legislation as a gift to Arlene for her help on Brexit.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/northern-ireland-abortion-law-breaches-human-rights-court-rules-191003153501011.html

Hotblack Desiato

No way Boris will be able to get that overturned, he has no majority DUP or no DUP.

Bredabe

'Unplanned' showing at a chain of national cinemas this week, demo's outside local cinema's and the usual bot attacks online.

Cabaal

"Pro Life" zealots attacking an MP in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/06/stella-creasy-anti-abortion-group-police-investigate-extremist-targeting

Scotland Yard is investigating the intimidation and harassment of Stella Creasy following the “extremist” targeting of the Labour MP by anti-abortion protesters over the past week.

For the third time in a week, supporters of the UK branch of the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform (CBR UK), an American anti-abortion organisation, gathered in Walthamstow town centre on Saturday and became embroiled in heated exchanges with passing shoppers.

You may remember Bio-Ethical Reform in Ireland were the one's that put very graphic posters outside McDonalds, Schools and Hospitals in Ireland during our ref, I'd like to thank them for helping the yes vote by doing so :pac:

....group’s strategy was aimed at ensuring phrases such as “baby murderer” became normalised, warning that such tactics had the potential to radicalise individuals and had incited violence in the US.

Thankfully such tactics in Ireland simply didn't fly and we as a country had little time for them, I know of one incident in Waterford where they had posters up near a school at a roundabout and parents stopped and got out of cars and got seriously angry with them which resulted in the Gardai showing and removing them from the roundabout.

Igotadose

Violence is o.k. if your pro-life. As are lies.
If not, our erstwhile compassionate pro-lifers on this thread would decry and condemn the actions in the UK.

(Oh yeah, need another link to the video of the guy kicking the pro-lifer in the US, which was categorically condemned here when it happened.)

Bredabe

Bredabe wrote: »

'Unplanned' showing at a chain of national cinemas this week, demo's outside local cinema's and the usual bot attacks online.

Whole thread on here with the usual anti suspects, going for the free speech angle against the protesters.

Bredabe

DubInMeath wrote: »

Whole thread on here with the usual anti suspects, going for the free speech angle against the protesters.

I imagine there is, funny or ironic that the ppl going on about free speech are the ones' who spend lifetimes making sure the rest of us didnt have access to info they didnt approve of.

Cabaal

Bredabe wrote: »

'Unplanned' showing at a chain of national cinemas this week.

I'd rather see the Irish version of Unplanned featuring Noel Pattern,

Any suggestions for who could play Noel?

For those that don';t know Noel, lets refresh your memory https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/

You may recall those ‘My Abortion’ story billboards. The Noel featured turns out is a fake. Save8.ie have since deleted his story (this is the cached page)

Considerable (well, not really. It was pretty straightforward) leg work went into proving this guy is not a nurse, has a city and guilds cert that appears altered (provided to us by Pro-Life activist John McGurk), has lied about his experience, is a self confessed convicted armed robber and self-professed gun runner…

Instead of doing the sensible thing and throwing him under a bus ( OMG he lied to us) John McGurk and Save the 8th are claiming Noel left the campaign because of bullying by repealers.

This was either a very clumsy attempt at duping folks or it was incompetence on a grand scale. Either way I for one hope they continue with such own goals. Its awfully entertaining!

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd rather see the Irish version of Unplanned featuring Noel Pattern,

Any suggestions for who could play Noel?

For those that don';t know Noel, lets refresh your memory https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/

Apparently John has moved to targeting immigrants now that the 8th has passed and he's not getting any money out of the cause he so strongly believed in.

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1180451165571633158?s=21

reminded me of the comments during the referendum campaign made by the save the 8th campaigner that it wasn't real Irish women traveling or seeking access to abortion.

Cabaal

I was trying to figure out what the heck gript was from that tweet, I'd never heard of it and thought maybe it was a typo.

Now I see its supposed to be some sort of "news" site, instead its a women hating, gay hating, pro life zealot, anti climate change and racist train wreck of a site.
Parts of it read like Gemma wrote it, is she involved by any chance?

Igotadose

The pro-lifers are stirring up because of what's going to happen in NI in a couple weeks is my guess. Once the legislation is in effect there, hopefully forces will move quickly to enable women seeking abortions to find them in NI.

Cabaal

Igotadose wrote: »

The pro-lifers are stirring up because of what's going to happen in NI in a couple weeks is my guess. Once the legislation is in effect there, hopefully forces will move quickly to enable women seeking abortions to find them in NI.

Yep, thats exactly what they are freaking out.

Heavens forbid that women might have some control over their own bodies, crazy stuff altogether

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

I was trying to figure out what the heck gript was from that tweet, I'd never heard of it and thought maybe it was a typo.

Now I see its supposed to be some sort of "news" site, instead its a women hating, gay hating, pro life zealot, anti climate change and racist train wreck of a site.
Parts of it read like Gemma wrote it, is she involved by any chance?

Can't link to the posts on the phone but it's already been mentioned on this thread and was linked to Tim Jackson of Youth Defence.

Usually used as a source along with the liberal in the usual immigrant/refugee/homosexuality etc threads by certain posters, such as can be found in the one on unplanned.

robindch

Facebook reports that around $1.3m was spent by around 300 Irish groups, and around $100,000 was spent by 50 non-Irish groups on referendum-related advertising in the run up to the abortion referendum last year.

Hotblack Desiato

SIPO should be all over that, totally illegal.

Hotblack Desiato

DubInMeath wrote: »

Whole thread on here with the usual anti suspects, going for the free speech angle against the protesters.

Aontu's twitter account described 14 members of Galway Pro Choice peacefully holding placards outside a cinema as "thugs".

Fcuk sake.

Bredabe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Aontu's twitter account described 14 members of Galway Pro Choice peacefully holding placards outside a cinema as "thugs".

Fcuk sake.

That makes a lot of sense, the dog piling I got and outright bullying when I expressed concern that the cinema showing it in Galway, is almost right on the road and there maybe ppl so upset about the film content that they could easily walk into traffic.

I would have thought that they would be concerned that pro lifers like themselves would be injured supporting their propaganda.:eek::eek:

aloyisious

Watching the clock, 13 days to go to the UK Govt legislation deadline, the 21st.

Cabaal

aloyisious wrote: »

Watching the clock, 13 days to go to the UK Govt legislation deadline, the 21st.

No chance of a government being formed between now and then,
As much as the DUP may want to stop abortion, they dislike the Irish Language Act far far more and until they agree to that SF won't play ball.

They are between a rock and a hard place,

Also if the had a government formed when hard brexit hit then they'd be afraid they actually have to make decisions, including culling herds of cattle due to the collapse of the NI diary industry. They don't want to be anywhere near that sh*t storm!

Loafing Oaf

Cabaal wrote: »

As much as the DUP may want to stop abortion

Do they really though? Or do they just not want to be seen to be responsible for its 'introduction' to NI...

aloyisious

From google-search on DUP position on support for Boris. It seems the DUP leadership recognized they would lose a fight in Westminster against the legislation despite Jim Wells [former DUP health spokesperson] and Jim Allister being very much against it. Former DUP health minister Jim Wells - who has had the whip withdrawn from him over over a dispute with the leadership - urged the Government to pull the legislation to prevent the changes going through.
If that did not happen, he said "it should be made very clear that the confidence and supply agreement is at an end and the Government will not have the support of our MPs in a no confidence vote".
Similarly, former DUP MEP Jim Allister, leader of the hardline Traditional Unionist Voice party, urged the DUP to "thwart this meddling" by ensuring that reversing the amendments is "the cost of the new confidence and supply arrangements which require to be negotiated with the new Prime Minister".

Boris was happy to leave it to MP's voting conscience and to leave it to the DUP oppose it in Stormont, which they did not take up and the DUP chief whip, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, agreed with that point of parliamentary procedure.

Link from July 10th last: https://inews.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-gives-no-hint-it-will-topple-the-government-over-abortion-and-marriage-law-changes.... I'd like to see the date of the report as a portent.

Igotadose

Free contraception for women starting in 2021, per Simon Harris. Well done, this'll reduce the frequency of abortions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/women-to-have-access-to-free-contraception-from-2021-minister-1.4046712

Cabaal

Igotadose wrote: »

Free contraception for women starting in 2021, per Simon Harris. Well done, this'll reduce the frequency of abortions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/women-to-have-access-to-free-contraception-from-2021-minister-1.4046712

I'm sure it'll be against somebody's christian values and they'll feel it'll corrupt Ireland
:rolleyes:

chris525

SusieBlue wrote: »

Ah yes, cause all these silly women signed up for abortions with no idea what they were getting themselves into and did no research on the procedure whatsoever.
They probably thought it was the latest beauty treatment lols!

But luckily you’ll be standing nearby on hand to inform them of the ‘reality’ that they’re evil murderers.
Saving them from themselves, because they don’t know any better and are incapable of making an informed choice about their own medical care.

You and your ilk are modern day saints, really.

Well then why did they pregnant if they didn't want to? It's not difficult to prevent. If they can't think that logically then how would they know to make an 'informed choice'? Not talking about the 'hard cases'. This is coming from a female.

Peregrinus

Igotadose wrote: »

Free contraception for women starting in 2021, per Simon Harris. Well done, this'll reduce the frequency of abortions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/women-to-have-access-to-free-contraception-from-2021-minister-1.4046712

Actually, improved access to contraception and an increase in the abortion rate tend to be positively correlated, which is not what you'd expect. Nobody quite knows why this is, but it definitely is.

Cabaal

Peregrinus wrote: »

Actually, improved access to contraception and an increase in the abortion rate tend to be positively correlated, which is not what you'd expect. Nobody quite knows why this is, but it definitely is.

Link to this claim?
Also, what about education?, is this being factored into your claim correlation?

After all, its no good throwing condoms and tablets at people if they don't know how to properly use them!

Right now even in Ireland education is lacking. Grown adults are often clueless about how things should be properly used.

If you look at the good old US of A they have great access to contraception but education is seriously lacking in numerous states just to nonsense abstinence only teachings in schools.

So you end up with sexually uneducated people (who are also often from religious families) getting pregnant and often accessing abortion services because of this because of finance reasons, shame from family or numerous other factors.

So claiming one goes hand in hand doesn't prove anything, esp if you don't factor in other things. Otherwise you can claim all sorts of stuff like,,,

SusieBlue

chris525 wrote: »

Well then why did they pregnant if they didn't want to? It's not difficult to prevent. If they can't think that logically then how would they know to make an 'informed choice'? Not talking about the 'hard cases'. This is coming from a female.

If they can't think "that logically", as you so kindly put it, why on earth would you be trusting them with rearing an innocent child for 18+ years?
You don't trust them with a choice, but you do trust them with a baby??

Unplanned pregnancies happen every single day. You're extremely naive if you believe differently. Just because we wish they weren't an occurrance, doesn't mean they won't happen.

Your gender has no relevance whatsoever here

lazygal

People with planned pregnancies have abortions too.

Hotblack Desiato

chris525 wrote: »

Well then why did they pregnant if they didn't want to? It's not difficult to prevent. If they can't think that logically then how would they know to make an 'informed choice'? Not talking about the 'hard cases'. This is coming from a female.

How can someone still be this ignorant* after 2+ years of national debate leading up to the referendum vote?

* I'm not intending to insult, I mean uninformed. All of these issues were discussed in detail on TV, radio, newspapers, and online.


I don't see good reasons why it's going to take until 2021 to get free contraception in place. As soon as the abortion legislation was passed, Harris should have been on this. It's not like he's brought in safe zones legislation in the meantime :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Cabaal wrote: »

So claiming one goes hand in hand doesn't prove anything, esp if you don't factor in other things. Otherwise you can claim all sorts of stuff like,,,

I like the one about the inverse correlation between the number of pirates and climate change.