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Royal Canal Greenway

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i give up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    You must not read the posts when you were replying. I certainly did not say that. Read again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    So you've reverted fear mongering rather than answering the question asked. Enough said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I answered your questions and I identified your thinking. Have you asked the females close to you yet, or are you assuming/telling them what to think?

    Just because you perceive something is safe, doesn’t mean that others feel the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I never expressed my opinion (safe or unsafe) either way. I'm simply asking ye explain how all these disparate events and locations, relate to each other.

    Failing in that, you've reverted to "feelings". So accepting that at face value, I ask how do you expand that to the rest of the route, or at the very least the neighboring sections. Failing in that, you've now switched to anecdotal ad hoc surveys of a tiny sample size.

    I know there's studies on the permeability of estates and alleyways in terms of crime and anti social behavior. I can't find any on Greenways in Ireland, I can find them in the UK etc. I assume there must also be some on "riverside walks, canal banks, mountain trails" as people have brought those locations into this thread as being relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I said that more access could be provided when the other sections are being maintained or upgraded. Did you kiss it or something? Why does everything have to be right now? If everything was right now then nothing would get done anywhere due to cost and the hassle of dealing with NIMBY’ers. So do each section as they are getting other work done. Surely you can comprehend that because I feel like I’m on a loop repeating myself to you.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wouldn't bother engaging; he'll just claim you said something you didn't say.

    it seems that wanting to design public space so it feels safe to use is condemning all public space as unsafe to use. and i guess that architect who wrote that article in the examiner talking about the topic in the light of recent events is also guilty of a lack of decorum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Well it would be a bit difficult to say I said something I didn’t when I had to repeat myself a number of times!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    You guys are bringing up safety as an issue. I didn't do that you guys did.

    Which calls into question safety on the whole route. You can't say ignore the rest of the route, when you are using incidents, and articles from the other parts of the route (and urban and rural planning in general) to justify your proposal. You've irrevocably linked/associated them. In answer how to apply the same solution you're proposing here, to the other sections. "Give more access" is nonsensical. They are remote. Access to where?

    You're also ignoring the other aspect of this, part of the objection to this section, and Greenways in general, is the fear of anti-social behavior, crime etc., You're inadvertently agreeing with that.

    In order to say exits will lessen the danger. You have to have start with the premise there IS danger.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    For the record I don't really care which side its one.

    My preference is its not tied up in objections for the next decade or two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    You are saying what can’t be ignored yet you have ignored what I have repeatedly said as it doesn’t fit into your agenda. I have even explained my posts but your ignorance is a choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Deleted. No point engaging someone who takes up everything wrong by choice.

    Post edited by Fighting Tao on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I didn't think it was hard a question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭mattser




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You asking me or him? I assume him but not sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭mattser


    Sorry Flinty, I meant the other poster. Seems they have left the building.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's very one sided article. There are wrong though there is is data on permeability and it's relationship with crime. It's not as simple as being suggested and it's not all positive either.

    It also completely ignores that some of these areas have high level of anti social activity and crime that has nothing to do with the greenway. It's just happens to pass through them. Whereas other sections are in low crime areas but are remote. That's a whole different issue

    Compromise and trials are mentioned in the article. But no one in this thread has been interested in any that. What people in this thread want is a fait accompli to get what they want.

    But the stretch they are talking about in the article would never have gone ahead without compromise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Compromise and trials are mentioned in the article. But no one in this thread has been interested in any that

    I think the residents along the Grand Canal would be very naive to think that any "trial" wouldn't be permanent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    It's a wider social issue, can't be solved by greenway design. We could draft all unemployed 15 to 22 year olds into the military and have enough sailors to crewe the fleet, 2 birds 1 stone and all that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Sorry if this has been asked recently, but what stage are Phases 3 and 4 of the greenway upgrades at? Any sections due to start construction any time soon?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Qwerty27


    Slightly off topic but does anyone know if there are any plans to construct a cycleway or walk way across the Liffey towards Liffey Valley Shopping Centre?


    It seems crazy to be able to see the shops less than a mile say from say the GAA pitch yet it takes a long, circuitous route to drive and park over there!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's a campaign to reopen the old bridge over the liffey which was used for workers to get in and out of farmleigh. it wouldn't quite link up with the liffey valley shopping centre, but is not that far away.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3614002,-6.3647779,3a,75y,327.09h,107.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJpFhpTXLs-1js8VpmErNIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Could they suspend a cycle/walk "skyway" from the existing M50 bridge. That would be something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    This times 100. There should of course be a public transport, walking and cycling bridge west of the m50. Its the busiest road in the state and there are no realistic alternatives. You either have to cross the liffey in chapelizod, lucan or get in a car and cross the m50. Maybe it's a deliberate revenue protection measure. If people can easily cycle or take buses between blanch and clondalkin then paying a toll to sit in m50 traffic seems less appealing



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Whilst the view would be brilliant, it would be quite noisy which would ruin the amenity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I was more thinking it was a direct route. Everything else is thorough other people's land.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Totally off topic but on the excellent Bridges documentary recently shown on RTE they said it was actually for a water pipe and not people or livestock which is why it doesnt have proper access on either side. i always heard it was for livestock. The pipe went up to the clock tower in Farmleigh which is actually a water tower in disguise. When you look at the satellite pictures on google maps it is very close to the clock tower and directly in line so it makes sense.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    according to wikipedia, it did both - pipes and pedestrian access.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,531 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    This bridge seems to be proposed as a Liffey crossing point in the Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network, connecting Farmleigh to Waterstown Park. See attached pic.

    It also shows a M50 crossing point further west, between Waterstown Park and King's Hospital School (the school is objecting to this routing through their grounds).

    Aside: Notice the interesting M50 crossing point between Castleknock Way and Park Avenue!! Great for people going to CETNS or St Brigid's on Beechpark Avenue and for anyone from Castleknock going to CCC. I do expect strong objections of course.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Qwerty27


    Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks it would be a good idea!

    I contacted Fingal council to see if they had any details, mail was acknowledged and would be passed to relevant area but I'll be surprised if I get a response!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think a bridge further up joining carpenterstown road/ college gate to back of Castleknock college would be useful both as a route to Castleknock and the park and CCC and beyond in the other direction. Less objections too. Maybe. I don't think either would happen though.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you mean collegegate to college wood?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    or somewhere there.

    Be nice to cut out the road in front of castleknock college both going to castleknock and the park/town. I know you can cut through college wood to collage gate but its bit of a faff/indirect



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    not sure they'd be willing to spend so much on a walkway/cycleway over the M50 when they'd just point to the nearby road. not that it wouldn't be welcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well the road outside Castleknock college is bad. Its narrow and drivers squeeze past constantly. There's no cycle lanes and space tp add them. If you take the lane and keep up the space its ok. But for slower cyclists and kids its completely unsuitable. lots of aggressive drivers. TBH thats true of the entire stretch to the carpenter roundabout.

    We have no cycle lane route to the Park/Castleknock. Its a disgrace. There should be cycling infrastrcuture to link to the Park and thus Town.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    true; my niece would have to cycle that road to get to school and that ain't going to happen, partly because of that road - mount sackville is weirdly difficult to get to safely on a bike for a school that's only a mile from castleknock village.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You could cycle down whites road then through the park.

    Or they could open back road from whites rd, into farmeigh, then it would be very little effort to open up a path from farmleigh car park into mountsackville.

    Though personal safety would a consideration though off road areas with low footfall.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    exactly, they'd be cycling through a reasonably remote unlit area of the park. wouldn't be used.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well thats flip side of greenways, canals etc. You have to say there's a lot of potential permeability and paths, hidden behind massive stone walls, and hedgerows. Perhaps if they were moved back 10ft or so, opened up, and lit, you'd create a lot of amenity and safe walking and cycling routes.

    If you look at the area with the satellite view on lots of potential routes open up.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'd suggest (just taking a very brief look at the map) if you were to cross the M50, going from college gate to park avenue would be a good option?

    i'm not sure who owns the building across the road from myos, but it's really the only road block preventing that as a through way to castleknock village. it's derelict but sits square across the end of church court. i'm sure the locals would love my suggestion, too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I would lay strong odds thats a protected building of some sort. If would be lovely if done up.

    I think you'd have less objections if your proposed routes goes past less houses and less cul de sacs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,531 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    It might be easier to link College Gate and Bracken Park to the open space at the end of Castleknock Way. This would give access to the proposed bridge over M50 to Park Avenue. See attached screenshot.

    Even without the bridge over the M50 it makes it easy for people from College Gate and Bracken Park to get to Scoil Thomais and Laurel Lodge Shopping Centre, and 37 bus.

    Following on from what Flinty997 says about objections, I cannot picture Church Court residents being happy about increased pedestrian or bicycle traffic (even though the access would benefit them too).

    Cycling via Park Avenue to the Beechpark Avenue junction will be okay because it would bring you to cycle tracks along Castleknock Road (designated a Primary Radial route). Of course none of this infrastructure will be built for decades because NTA and other such bodies only specialise in producing nice maps.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think the Carpenterstown road is a pivotal route for cyclists passing through. Not simply local traffic. I can't see this traffic, deciding to route down the middle of Laurel Lodge to avoid traffic. If you are commuting cyclist you'll just take the road and live with if for 5 mins. I completely accept local cyclists, kids and families between LL and Castleknock going through estates is a preferred route. I'm not sure thats enough to justify a bridge. Maybe because I'm more likely to do a family cycle to the park, or commuting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,531 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    The Consultation Report is now available at: https://www.fingal.ie/royalcanalurbangreenway/consultationreport

    Summary of changes since the consultation:

    • The number of accesses to the greenway via Delwood and Brompton has been reduced from 6 to 3
    • The bridge access route/ramp from the Brompton Green area has been shifted further west, with the bridge route/ramp meandering through the wooded area, which should act to screen the bridge access ramp from the Roselawn properties
    • The access point into the Brompton green area has been shifted eastwards to respect the privacy of adjacent properties
    • To prevent the greenway overlooking the back gardens of the residents of Delwood Park and for security reasons, the ground level of the greenway is proposed to be lowered to match, or be lower than, the existing ground level of the adjacent back gardens and a 2m high timber palisade fence provided, with an anti-climb wire mesh fence.
    • The design now includes a 2m high fence line to be maintained along the southern side of the greenway along the Brompton green area. To provide further privacy to the Brompton residents, planting and railings will be provided on the Brompton side of the greenway through the Brompton green area


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i see the only access to delwood would be via delwood close, i'd like to see more but i suspect that's an uphill struggle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its not really much of a compromise though. Its basically what they wanted all along only very slightly modified.

    I think there are less confrontational ways of doing things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    As someone who's just moved to one of those estates, I'm delighted. It'll be great to have the greenway on my doorstep. Have lived beside a different section of it for years and it's a fantastic amenity.



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