Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

freshpopcorn

Bobtheman wrote: »

Given the amount of time it will take to sort out estate would crowd funding not be an idea ?Even to cover some of the cost. Just a suggestion.
I would expect the Indo paid them for the story. Given their costs I don't think anyone would have an issue with this.
It's events like this that make me hope there is eternal life and judgment. Not eternity in hell but some punishment

Somebody set up a page to raise money for them and they asked for it to be taken down.

iamwhoiam

Bobtheman wrote: »

Given the amount of time it will take to sort out estate would crowd funding not be an idea ?Even to cover some of the cost. Just a suggestion.
I would expect the Indo paid them for the story. Given their costs I don't think anyone would have an issue with this.
It's events like this that make me hope there is eternal life and judgment. Not eternity in hell but some punishment

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/3815461/family-clodagh-hawe-warn-fake-fundraising-page/amp/

weldoninhio

Trump Is Right wrote: »

The reason many people want to believe that Alan Hawe was a very obvious "bad guy" all along, is because it makes them feel better about the nature of the crimes. Many people are very uneasy about the monster that is hidden underneath their nose!

But the mother and sister clearly stated that Alan Hawe was not violent towards his family, and that Clodagh and the boys were not living in fear of him. They never once seen him raise his hand to them! Yes he may have been controlling... but this is not exactly unusual behaviour for many husbands or wives too. (most of whom are not violent either)

And we actually have evidence that Alan was receiving treatment for mental illness. Yes it was for porn addiction, but this is not necessarily unrelated to his other potential mental problems. Ted Bundy also had a porn addiction, and he actually said his porn addiction played a significant role in his urge to kill...

It's very likely that Alan Hawe was suffering from some kind of psychotic problem, or some other serious mental issue. His behaviour on that night was out of character with his general behaviour even just hours prior... where he was hugging Clodagh's mother and being very civil.

I am definitely more inclined to think that this was a very mentally sick and desperate man, rather than the simplistic characterisation of "pure evil"... which is neither helpful or particularly intelligent analysis...

Good post. People hear mental illness and immediately think "depression". There are a huge amount of mental illnesses and a huge spectrum of each one.

tretorn

weldoninhio wrote: »

Good post. People hear mental illness and immediately think "depression". There are a huge amount of mental illnesses and a huge spectrum of each one.

And this brings things back to keeping what happened at the school from Clodagh.
Who knows what action she would have taken to have his mental health assessed, he may have been able to hide his suicidal thoughts from her but a phychologist wouldnt have been as easily fooled. Im talking here about someone who has completed a medical degree and went on to study in the area of mental health as opposed to someone who does a diploma and then calls themselves a counsellor. Most of them probably know as much about mental health as my postman, probably less actually.

tretorn

weldoninhio wrote: »

Good post. People hear mental illness and immediately think "depression". There are a huge amount of mental illnesses and a huge spectrum of each one.

And this brings things back to keeping what happened at the school from Clodagh.
Who knows what action she would have taken to have his mental health assessed, he may have been able to hide his suicidal thoughts from her but a phychologist wouldnt have been as easily fooled. Im talking here about someone who has completed a medical degree and went on to study in the area of mental health as opposed to someone who does a diploma and then calls themselves a counsellor. Most of them probably know as much about mental health as my postman, probably less actually.

julyjane

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I wonder could JOR have benefitted from the sale. Strange also that the young sons appear to have been taken in by his parents. At least that is what I read somewhere, so open to correction.

I read in the Sunday world some years ago that because JOR is a widowed parent he is automatically the boys sole guardian and when he was sent to prison put them into the custody of his parents. at the time I read the article Rachel's family had little or no contact with them. it's another piece of legislation that needs to be looked at. I wonder if he's claiming widowers pension

SirChenjin

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Somebody set up a page to raise money for them and they asked for it to be taken down.

The family did not know anything about that page being set up and it was unclear who actually set it up.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-of-clodagh-hawe-warns-people-not-to-donate-to-fake-online-fundraising-page-37870020.html

Bobtheman

I think the family are right to push for a morally wrong view of his actions. To stress the evil nature.
Too often the high priests of psychology and psychiatry peddle an excuse for everything.
People have free will and there is no evidence he lost that capacity. That he had a psychotic break.
Wrong is wrong. Evil is evil.
We have choices

Muahahaha

Some progress

Garda Commissioner Drew Harris has agreed to set up a serious case review into the investigation surrounding the murder of Clodagh Hawe and her three sons.

Clodagh (39), Liam (13), Niall (11) and Ryan (6) were killed in their home near Ballyjamesduff in August 2016 by Alan Hawe, who subsequently took his own life.

This new development, confirmed by gardai, follows a meeting between Drew Harris and Clodagh’s family at Garda Headquarters in Dublin.

“Commissioner Harris told the family that he has appointed Assistant Commissioner Barry O’Brien to conduct a serious case review of the investigation,” a garda spokesperson said.

“The review team will take a number of weeks to establish. Commissioner Harris said the family will be kept informed as the review progresses.”

The review will look at the garda response to the family’s deaths, rather than the lead up to the murders themselves.

Following today's meeting, Clodagh’s mother Mary and sister Jacqueline told members of the media that they welcomed the commissioner’s decision.

“We have had a very constructive two-and-a-half hour meeting with the Garda Commissioner,” said Jacqueline Connolly.

“He has agreed to conduct a serious case review headed by his Assistant Commissioner Barry O’Brien.

“We look forward to being appraised of that process in two weeks’ time.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/commissioner-agrees-to-set-up-serious-case-review-into-murder-of-clodagh-hawe-and-her-sons-37890456.html

ppn

weldoninhio wrote: »

Good post. People hear mental illness and immediately think "depression". There are a huge amount of mental illnesses and a huge spectrum of each one.

Usually the people closest to those who are capable of dreadful things are the last to see it. Of course it may not be the case here but we may never know. The fact that he seems to have been a control freak at home sets off alarm bells.
And just my opinion but I'm sure there is somebody out there who came across AH in some walk of life, be it school or work or elsewhere over the years, and can say that they always thought he was an oddball. Sometimes a lot can be learned from looking over certain situations with the gift of hindsight.

Bobtheman

It still doesn't seem the family are going to get answers on what Alan hawe was accused of ? In the school. That's my reading of it

Doctor Jimbob

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think the family are right to push for a morally wrong view of his actions. To stress the evil nature.
Too often the high priests of psychology and psychiatry peddle an excuse for everything.
People have free will and there is no evidence he lost that capacity. That he had a psychotic break.
Wrong is wrong. Evil is evil.
We have choices

I don't think it's really that they're trying to make excuses, more that people want to understand what happened. I'd argue that anyone capable of committing an act like this has something wrong with them mentally, and is therefore in some way mentally ill.

I completely understand why people want to just call it evil and be done with it, but for the sake of trying to stop similar incidents from happening in the future it's important to try to work out what happened.

ohnonotgmail

Bobtheman wrote: »

It still doesn't seem the family are going to get answers on what Alan hawe was accused of ? In the school. That's my reading of it

I dont think they will get that from the gardai. Was there any mention of the gardai being involved before he murdered his family?

Citygirl1

Bobtheman wrote: »

Given the amount of time it will take to sort out estate would crowd funding not be an idea ?Even to cover some of the cost. Just a suggestion.
I would expect the Indo paid them for the story. Given their costs I don't think anyone would have an issue with this.
It's events like this that make me hope there is eternal life and judgment. Not eternity in hell but some punishment

I've been reading this entire thread with interest.

Just picking up on the above, while you may mean well, I really don't agree that any such steps should be taken. Particularly when her family have indicated they do not want this. And it does sound like the money is there, or will be after the house etc is sold.

These are clearly very dignified people. In such a situation, I would definitely not want, and even cringe, to see a public/charitable collection being made to pay my family debts, rather than having them discharged from the correct source.

And, I wouldn't assume that they took payment from the Irish Independent from their story. Their aim is clearly to try and get the facts, which they've discovered they can only do by giving public interviews.

freshpopcorn

Citygirl1 wrote: »

I've been reading this entire thread with interest.

Just picking up on the above, while you may mean well, I really don't agree that any such steps should be taken. Particularly when her family have indicated they do not want this. And it does sound like the money is there, or will be after the house etc is sold.

These are clearly very dignified people. In such a situation, I would definitely not want, and even cringe, to see a public/charitable collection being made to pay my family debts, rather than having them discharged from the correct source.

And, I wouldn't assume that they took payment from the Irish Independent from their story. Their aim is clearly to try and get the facts, which they've discovered they can only do by giving public interviews.

I remember a few months after this happened the family did an interview with a paper and the money went to women's aid.(Or something similar)

Whilst they are under pressure to pay things. i'd say it's one of these things that will eventually get paid.

RollieFingers

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/alan-hawe-was-not-facing-disciplinary-threat-school-says-1.3823199

john9876

Any chance of pasting the article?

iamwhoiam

john9876 wrote: »

Any chance of pasting the article?

This is a part of the statement from the school



“Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

The statement, on behalf of the school’s board of management, adds that at no stage was there “any disciplinary process or other investigation instigated or threatened by the school in respect of Mr Hawe”.

Solicitors acting for the school board said recent reports had caused a great deal of stress in the school community and reignited the “emotions and trauma experienced at the time of this terrible tragedy”.

sligojoek

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/alan-hawe-was-not-facing-disciplinary-threat-school-says-1.3823199

The Co Cavan primary school where Alan Hawe worked says recent reports which suggest he was discovered in school accessing pornography or engaging in sexual activity have damaged the reputation of school personnel.

His late wife Clodagh’s family said recently that counselling notes indicated he was looking at pornography on a school laptop and that he had been caught “red-handed”.

Hawe murdered his wife Clodagh and their three sons - Liam, Niall and Ryan - before taking his own life in August 2016, the night before he was due to return to school.

In a statement, Castlerahan National School said recent articles and television programmes implied that some of the reasons for the tragedy were that Hawe had been discovered accessing pornography in school or that he had been the subject of disciplinary proceedings.

However, it said it wished to clarify that staff, including the principal, were first informed about Hawe’s online activity on December 2nd, 2016, months after his death.

“In response to specific school management queries, the gardaí have confirmed that there was no access to pornographic websites by Mr Hawe during the school day and, further, no evidence has emerged of any inappropriate activity on the part of Mr Hawe during school time,” the statement says.

‘Did not happen’
“Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

The statement, on behalf of the school’s board of management, adds that at no stage was there “any disciplinary process or other investigation instigated or threatened by the school in respect of Mr Hawe”.

Solicitors acting for the school board said recent reports had caused a great deal of stress in the school community and reignited the “emotions and trauma experienced at the time of this terrible tragedy”.

It said the reports have “damaged the reputation of school personnel” who were easily identifiable in a small rural community and that their privacy had been compromised.

It added that it extended its heartfelt sympathies to the Coll and Hawe families as they continued to grieve and come to terms with their tragic loss.

Ms Hawe’s family have said in recent interviews that Mr Hawe was concerned in his suicide letter that “the truth was going to come out”.

Conflict
Jacqueline Connolly, Ms Hawe’s sister, told RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live last month that counselling notes indicated that “he was masturbating somewhere that he shouldn’t have been” and that a conflict had arisen with a colleague in the months leading up to the murders.

She said they also understood Hawe had contacted the Irish National Teachers’ Organisation (INTO), but they did not know whether this was for a grievance or representation.

During the inquest into the murders in December 2017, counselling notes show Hawe disclosed he had begun to view pornography and that he had become obsessed that people would find out about it. Garda investigators subsequently examined his background, including his computer use history, and discovered no material or activity that would constitute criminal behaviour.

Prof Harry Kennedy, clinical director at the Central Mental Hospital who reviewed Hawe’s suicide notes and reports from his therapist and GP, told the inquest that Hawe was suffering from a severe mental illness and had “catastrophised” a number of incidents as a consequence of psychotic symptoms.

He said his psychotic episodes had left his judgment “severely impaired” and that he might have believed that some catastrophe or terrible event was about to befall him.

Mrsmum

What to make of that latest news - nothing to do with the school and they only found about his viewing porn four months after he was dead. They have been in the eye of the storm for nothing and it must have been very hurtful for them to be cast as more or less as a major part of the reason for what he did. And yet since there was not “any disciplinary process or other investigation instigated or threatened by the school in respect of Mr Hawe”, it is strange why he killed everyone the night before returning to school. Perhaps he assumed word from where he had been caught red-handed would have reached the school staff and parents during the summer and he couldn't face them.

Muahahaha

Very strange statement by the school. We know from his counselling notes that he said he was caught red handed watching porn. It is pretty sure that he wasn't caught by Clodagh at home as she was very close to her mum and talked to her about everything. So if not the school then where? And why was he ringing INTO during school holidays? Why was he stressed and put on sleeping tablets by his GP on June 21st, also the day he cancelled all remaining counselling sessions? Something is not adding up here and I'm wondering are the Board of Management and Hawes good friend Father Felim closing ranks.

freshpopcorn

"Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

How can the say that it is categorically nothing to so with the school?
I don't know how they can be so certain of themselves.

Mrsmum

freshpopcorn wrote: »

"Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

How can the say that it is categorically nothing to so with the school?
I don't know how they can be so certain of themselves.

They know for certain because the Gardaí have told them - “In response to specific school management queries, the gardaí have confirmed that there was no access to pornographic websites by Mr Hawe during the school day and, further, no evidence has emerged of any inappropriate activity on the part of Mr Hawe during school time,” the statement says.

freshpopcorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

[/B]

They know for certain because the Gardaí have told them - “In response to specific school management queries, the gardaí have confirmed that there was no access to pornographic websites by Mr Hawe during the school day and, further, no evidence has emerged of any inappropriate activity on the part of Mr Hawe during school time,” the statement says.

So does that mean another incident could have went unreported and he feared it was going to be reported?

FrancieBrady

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So does that mean another incident could have went unreported and he feared it was going to be reported?

Maybe that was what the dispute with the colleague was about.

The Princess Bride

I hate even writing this, but I wonder is there a chance it was a child who caught him red handed, one of the students.
Perhaps he felt they'd tell their parents, and naturally, they'd have reported it.
If this is the case, I'm only hoping that a child would've blanked it out or not realised what they'd seen.

Doesn't bear thinking about.

KikiLaRue

The Princess Bride wrote: »

I hate even writing this, but I wonder is there a chance it was a child who caught him red handed, one of the students.
Perhaps he felt they'd tell their parents, and naturally, they'd have reported it.
If this is the case, I'm only hoping that a child would've blanked it out or not realised what they'd seen.

Doesn't bear thinking about.

Surely enough harm has come to this community from baseless speculation without adding more to it?

Mrsmum

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So does that mean another incident could have went unreported and he feared it was going to be reported?

Another incident where ?

Personally I think the school have been very clear in this statement ie that they knew nothing of any wrongdoing by AH, that they had not reported him for anything, did not intend to report him for anything and the most important point knew of nothing to report him for.

funnyname

However do we know what he accessed via his phone when he was in the school?

Statement from board of management is very unhelpful, seem to be more interested in saving their reputation than helping understand why a family were wiped out.

Mrsmum wrote: »

[/B]

They know for certain because the Gardaí have told them - “In response to specific school management queries, the gardaí have confirmed that there was no access to pornographic websites by Mr Hawe during the school day and, further, no evidence has emerged of any inappropriate activity on the part of Mr Hawe during school time,” the statement says.

freshpopcorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

Another incident where ?

Personally I think the school have been very clear in this statement ie that they knew nothing of any wrongdoing by AH, that they had not reported him for anything, did not intend to report him for anything and the most important point knew of nothing to report him for.

I understand what your saying.

It's just in my opinion they school can't be
categorically certain it has nothing to do with the school.
It may have being an incident they were unaware of.