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The Last Mile

  • 25-02-2019 1:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    I'm facinated by the idea of last mile transport... stuff that allows you to get public transport and make it easy for you to get to and from that... skateboards, onewheels, folding bikes etc. Great way to reduce cars on the road & I think if more peoplke took them up, we'd have a much better transport system.

    I'm very tempted to get the Xiaomi M365 Pro when it reaches the market, but as much as I think their great, I always think people look like dicks using them... especially when they bring it up to the deli counter in Centra...

    So, am I the dick? I genuinely like the things... does anyone here use one? whats your thoughts on the whole last mile thing?

    https://www.gearbest.com/electric-scooters/pp_009442707209.html?wid=1433363


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭ AssaultedPeanut


    I was only discussing this with my OH. We're looking for somewhere to buy in the near future (hopefully), I cycle everywhere but she isn't into it. Trying to find affordable stuff near public transport is quite tough. So I think a folding bike or a scooter like that would be ideal to cut out a 30/40 min walk to the luas.

    I remember being in Barcelona about 6/7 years ago and noticing loads of people on scooters heading to work in suits and office clothes. At the time I thought it seemed a little weird but now I think it's great and happy that it's becoming a thing. Just took a while to adjust to the idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,913 ✭✭✭✭ Alun


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    whats your thoughts on the whole last mile thing?
    Walk?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    Alun wrote: »
    Walk?

    I could easily say the sme for you and your car... Just walk.

    My usage case BTW, would be to replace a 35 minute walk where time is pressured... I am not comfortable leaving my bike at public transport as they have been stolen & vandalised in the past. The purose is also to get to places where turning up in a sweat would not be appropriate.

    Alun, while I appreciate your attempt at witt... no, I actually don't...


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BeerNut


    My first thought would be how you'd even attach a number plate to it; the second is whether any insurance company has a product that covers it; the third is that the necessity of carrying a helmet seriously detracts from the convenience. A folding bike would be a lot less hassle than trying to run one of these legally, IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    BeerNut wrote: »
    My first thought would be how you'd even attach a number plate to it;
    Not required by law. assisted vehicles like the Xiaomi fall under EU law L1e-A

    BeerNut wrote: »
    the second is whether any insurance company has a product that covers it;
    Insurance is not required as it falls under EU law L1e-A

    BeerNut wrote: »
    the third is that the necessity of carrying a helmet seriously detracts from the convenience.
    I don't believe helmets are required by law, but willing to be corrected.

    BeerNut wrote: »
    A folding bike would be a lot less hassle than trying to run one of these legally, IMO.
    I can't see that being the case. Bikes are bigger, heavier, more difficult to store, more difficult to carry on packed public transport, more difficult to lock up in public, more difficult to bring into public buildings.


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BeerNut


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Insurance is not required as it falls under EU law L1e-A
    Don't they have to have pedals?
    L1e-A: Powered cycle: cycles designed to pedal equipped with an auxiliary propulsion with the primary aim to aid pedalling
    From Annex 1 here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    BeerNut wrote: »
    Don't they have to have pedals?


    From Annex 1 here.

    The term pedal can be debated, but the intent is to aid haman propulsion... Pushing with your foot could be seen as similar to the act of pedalling & that is the standpoint that is being worked off by the manufacturers involved,


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    whats your thoughts on the whole last mile thing?

    p068vmzy.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    if you're talking about replacing a 35-40 minute walk, you are talking about "The Last 3 to 4km", not "The Last Mile"


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    RayCun wrote: »
    if you're talking about replacing a 35-40 minute walk, you are talking about "The Last 3 to 4km", not "The Last Mile"

    Thanks for being so pedantic. The catch all term is 'last mile transport'... my needs are slightly different. I will be careful to attend to your OCD, even though my previous comments seem to be pretty clear about what the usage might be.

    I had to check twice that I hadn't posted this in After Hours.


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BeerNut


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Pushing with your foot could be seen as similar to the act of pedalling
    True. Will this run without it being pushed by foot?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    BeerNut wrote: »
    True. Will this run without it being pushed by foot?
    No. You have to push with your feet or the motor will not assist you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Thanks for being so pedantic.

    You're welcome.

    While I have my pedant hat on, L1e-A refers to 'Powered cycles', not 'miscellaneous powered vehicles'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭ Working class heroes


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Thanks for being so pedantic. The catch all term is 'last mile transport'... my needs are slightly different. I will be careful to attend to your OCD, even though my previous comments seem to be pretty clear about what the usage might be.

    I had to check twice that I hadn't posted this in After Hours.

    Mmm, I think one of these contraptions might actually suit your personality.

    A man who knows he knows nothing knows more than a man who thinks he knows everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    Mmm, I think one of these contraptions might actually suit your personality.

    Likewise


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭ wally79


    Saw this shortly after seeing thread. It will be interesting to see the outcome

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729?mode=amp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭ prinzeugen


    wally79 wrote: »
    Saw this shortly after seeing thread. It will be interesting to see the outcome

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729?mode=amp

    The RSA should know there is no grey area with the law. Its here,

    The Road Traffic Act of 1961 at Section 3(1) (a) and (b), defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as:

    “a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including;
    (a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,

    (b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;”

    Note the electrical bit. If the motor is capable of propelling you without physical effort, its is a MPV.

    The manufacturers keep pushing this idea that they are legal when they are not.

    Also being discussed here https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057872702/53/#post109482310


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Note the partly electrical bit. If the motor is capable of propelling you without physical effort
    What if it is not capable of propelling you without physical effort? That's where the lack of clarity seems to be. For instance the Xiaomi requires you to push or the motor will not engage.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Thanks for being so pedantic.
    maybe it's not them being pedantic, but you being unclear. suggesting walking is the most brutally obvious response when someone mentions 'the last mile' twice in their opening post, that i'm amazed you didn't expect or anticipate it, and clarify that without assuming the responses were disingenuous.
    it's not their fault you actually meant 'the last *two* miles'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭ Bluefoam


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Thanks for being so pedantic.
    maybe it's not them being pedantic, but you being unclear. suggesting walking is the most brutally obvious response when someone mentions 'the last mile' twice in their opening post, that i'm amazed you didn't expect or anticipate it, and clarify that without assuming the responses were disingenuous.
    it's not their fault you actually meant 'the last *two* miles'.
    Thanks, very helpful comment. I appreciate your input.

    I thought I had laid out my question quite clearly, but I seem to be getting allot of answers which don't actually answer it.

    I am well used to walking, cycling and using public transport. I live in the suburbs, don't own a car and get around by my own means and by public provision. I am not looking to replace walking, I have a particular use case which I have stated clearly above. I find it funny to look at the previous posts of some of the commenters here and see how car centric they are and that they think they're smart repeating the word 'walk' ad nauseum.

    If you can't contribute productively, please refrain.

    No wonder genuine users don't want to respond.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭ prinzeugen


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    What if it is not capable of propelling you without physical effort? That's where the lack of clarity seems to be. For instance the Xiaomi requires you to push or the motor will not engage.

    If the electric motor can propel you without physical effort by you AT ANY POINT it is a MPV.

    The method of starting or control does not matter. Those cycles with chainsaw engines are the same. Having to pedal to get going does not make them legal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    The last mile thing is not just being pedantic though. There are a lot of people who have a walk of up to a mile at either end of their commute. There are far fewer people who have a walk of two to three miles to get to public transport or from public transport to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    The ridiculous insurance laws in Ireland need to be overhauled before any of these gadgets can actually be successful. Until the law catches up with evolving tech and changes to embrace it rather than marginalise and penalise it no major developments can happen.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    the thing about those little scooters is that they fall into a weird zone between pedestrian and motor vehicle - i don't think i'd like to commute on one on the road, as the wheels seem too small to deal with the 'discontinuities' of the road surface; but they're too fast to use on urban footpaths.
    i see one or two occasionally on griffith avenue (my commute does not take me into the city centre), but that has recently been resurfaced along a decent stretch, and is nice and wide - and has wide footpaths. which led me to wonder is that why i'm seeing them there.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BeerNut


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    What if it is not capable of propelling you without physical effort? That's where the lack of clarity seems to be. For instance the Xiaomi requires you to push or the motor will not engage.
    I'm finding it really hard to imagine the experience here. If the motor only runs when your foot is touching the ground, it's going to suddenly accelerate away from you, isn't it? When you've done your push and lifted your foot for the next one, legally the motor has to cut out, right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    I see so many now and think it's a great concept and it's something Dublin and other towns need to get on top of the amount travelling by cars.

    If ridden properly and Safe I have no issues with them as each one you see including cyclists is another car off the road.

    I see more with fold up bikes too and electric ones around.

    Buses, trams and trains are full and I think as this is happening more and rush hour is even now 3 hours or more that people are getting fed up and are actually much quicker biking or scooting.

    I believe everyone for their own sake should get personal insurance but this would need to be affordable of course.

    I can see what the French companies have done supplying e scooters as a very good idea just like the Dublin bikes which is another thing where maybe they should be looking at supplying e bikes.... At a slightly higher price per hour etc.

    Widen out the scheme to the likes of UCD or further and similar around the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    BeerNut wrote: »
    I'm finding it really hard to imagine the experience here. If the motor only runs when your foot is touching the ground, it's going to suddenly accelerate away from you, isn't it? When you've done your push and lifted your foot for the next one, legally the motor has to cut out, right?

    I have yet to see one that you must have to keep putting your foot down to push, only when starting off on 1st push then its power all the way until you stop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭ cruizer101


    Its amazing how pedantic some people are about the distance of the last mile.
    Even if it is only a mile thats what a 15-20 min walk, if thats added to a 45 min bus or train journey its enough to make you want to consider other options, even if you are only saving 10 min in the morning and in the evening. It would potentially encourage some people out of their cars and onto public transport.

    There is actually a number of scooter-sharing schemes in other countries, similar to Dublin bikes, be great if law and insurance could be sorted here to allow for it, though I'd say its unlikely.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter-sharing_system#List_of_scooter-sharing_system_operators


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,240 ✭✭✭ Pussyhands


    maybe it's not them being pedantic, but you being unclear. suggesting walking is the most brutally obvious response when someone mentions 'the last mile' twice in their opening post, that i'm amazed you didn't expect or anticipate it, and clarify that without assuming the responses were disingenuous.
    it's not their fault you actually meant 'the last *two* miles'.

    Oh come off it ffs.

    Does everything have to be spelled out like you're a 5 year old?

    It's obvious when he refers to 'the last mile' that it means the first and last leg of journey to public transport, of which you would be giving up car usage.

    I'm not gonna walk 20 minutes and be all sweaty to a get a bus but I might think about getting the bus if I only had to go 5 minutes on a scooter.

    Wait, let's take everything literally!!! If you should use your feet for the last mile, what about if I only need to walk 500 yards? What should I use for that journey???


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    A 15 minute walk twice a day would do most people no harm.


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