Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

GT89

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I would have thought that other bus companies in the UK would be lined up to take the AHs if they were due to go back to ADL soon.

That would certainly apply in normal circumstances, but during Covid-19, it may be that our circumstances at the moment could change things at the last minute from the NTA's preferences in their leasing contracts with these manufacturers during a severe worldwide pandemic.

Is there a legal stipulation contained in the leasing contracts between ADL, Wrights & the NTA to state what must be done when the hybrid bus trial is concluded?

I mean Wrightbus are still trading in NI although with Jo Bamford as the new owner. It may be possible that other operators based in the UK thinking about ordering newer buses with hybrid technology from Wrights may want to take up the VH's & WH's on their new trials because they would want to trial the newer technology on them as a way of reducing greenhouse emissions arising from climate change within their company.

Before Covid-19 ever came here; there were some initial problems with the brake pads not working properly & breaching the zero emissions on the Wright hybrids tailpipe. Those moves done by Wrights had damaged their chances of winning the new hybrid bus contract from the NTA.

I thought these buses were owned outright by the NTA not leased

bk

From the NTA Board meeting minutes, seems that they are looking to place an order for another 180 Hybrid Double Deckers with Alexander Dennis. I'd assume these will all be 400ER

I'm not sure if the 180 is over one or two years. If it is one year, then this is a massive order, well above normal, so perhaps for BusConnects related expansion.

p_haugh

Any more word on when the first batch are arriving?

devnull

Just to say the thread title has been updated to better reflect the discussion in the thread now we're talking about new buses rather than just demonstrators.

- Moderator

d51984

First batch is slightly delayed due to Covid 19, pushing delivery in to late Nov /early Dec.

dublinman1990

Here is the full text from page 3.

Purchase of Double Deck Hybrid Buses

Mr Gillard outlined a proposal for the placement of an order for 180 double deck hybrid buses under the provisions of the Single Supplier Framework Agreement for the Purchase of Double-Deck Diesel Electric Hybrid Buses executed by the Authority with Alexander Dennis Limited in December 2019. During the discussion that followed it was confirmed that the order would be subject to Irish law.

The Board approved the proposal.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Agreed-Minutes-of-18-Sept-2020-Board-Meeting.pdf

If these are for BusConnects expansion for both the H & C Spines in Dublin; well that would amount to a massive total of 254 new buses if you count this order with the 1st batch of 74 ADL Hybrids already ordered in for Dublin Bus which are due to be delivered later this year. Although if Bus Eireann take more of these for Galway or for other regional cities; that might be a possibility as well if they are needed as required. The wording of those minutes from the NTA doesn't specifically say which operator will be taking on these new additional buses into their fleet. I would also assume that if the NTA are getting rid of the Wayfarer machines very soon; the NTA might fit these new buses with the new next generation ticketing based machines that are to be implemented for the new 90 minute fare for BusConnects in Dublin.

CatInABox

A mildly interesting tweet from the CEO of Dublin Bus on their testing of the hydrogen bus

https://twitter.com/ray_dublin/status/1326152491281616896

He also says "More good news on sustainability coming soon....." in the previous tweet

bk

BE and DB seemingly getting a Hydrogen powered single decker bus to trial the technology:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/hydrogen-powered-bus-takes-to-streets-of-dublin-1.4404748

Caetano H2.CityGold

dublinman1990

Nice one. I would assume that if Dublin Bus have it; it will based at Donnybrook Garage on the 44B or the 61 while it's not allowed to take passengers.

Also; any word on how the new ADL Hybrids are going over in the UK? Are they close to getting finished until their 1st delivery?

GT89

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Nice one. I would assume that if Dublin Bus have it; it will based at Donnybrook Garage on the 44B or the 61 while it's not allowed to take passengers.

Also; any word on how the new ADL Hybrids are going over in the UK? Are they close to getting finished until their 1st delivery?

Don't think it will be operating in service

dublinman1990

GT89 wrote: »

Don't think it will be operating in service

Yeah. I thought that. It will probably be like the low emission bus trial from a few years back.

d51984

Delivery pushed back again. Mid Dec, hopefully they will be held off until Jan for a 2021 reg. Hoping to have a photo or two by end of week.

ITV2

I was told (by Alexander) the arrival of the first AP type is due in the next week? No.?

d51984

ITV2 wrote: »

I was told (by Alexander) the arrival of the first AP type is due in the next week? No.?

No, theres a few nearly complete but problems with doors getting stuck im told. It appears top of centre doors not having enough clearance.

p_haugh

d51984 wrote: »

No, theres a few nearly complete but problems with doors getting stuck im told. It appears top of centre doors not having enough clearance.

Same issue as what was happening with the last batch of SGs wasn't it?

dublinman1990

The Caetano hydrogen bus was featured on Future Island on RTÉ One tonight. Did anyone see it?

dublinman1990

Dublin Bus are doing their hydrogen bus trial on the southern half of the 9 route while it will be out of service.

Bus Eireann are apparently having their hydrogen deckers in service on the 109A which would cover DCU & Dublin Airport. Although I would have thought Bus Eireann had already planned it for service on the 103. The Dublin Inquirer had initially reported a while back that the 103 was the initial route for the Bus Eireann trial although now that trial has changed to the 109A.

Peregrine

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are doing their hydrogen bus trial on the southern half of the 9 route while it will be out of service.

Bus Eireann are apparently having their hydrogen deckers in service on the 109A which would cover DCU & Dublin Airport. Although I would have thought Bus Eireann had already planned it for service on the 103. The Dublin Inquirer had initially reported a while back that the 103 was the initial route for the Bus Eireann trial although now that trial has changed to the 109A.

Bus Eireann are still getting their three double deckers as the Inquirer reported. This trial is in addition to that and will only last a few weeks. This is just a demo bus for the operators to get a few key metrics whereas the three double deckers were purchased outright and will enter regular service.

p_haugh

First AP class spotted up in Belfast, looking like they're starting to get delivered!

GT89

p_haugh wrote: »

First AP class spotted up in Belfast, looking like they're starting to get delivered!

Looks the business. Although I'm not fully convinced by the livery I think the one that they are using on Go-Ahead routes is possibly better. I wonder will that livery just be on the hybrids or will it be rolled out to the rest of the DB and GAI fleet.

ITV2

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=532848&stc=1&d=1605309661

Qrt

ITV2 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=532848&stc=1&d=1605309661

I think it looks 10x better, we had green buses for years like, then we went to yellow, so may as well bring back a mix

Atlantic Dawn

Would the Wright Streetcar make much more sense?

GT89

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Would the Wright Streetcar make much more sense?

For BRT maybe. Although I think there are far better articulated buses on the market.

bk

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Would the Wright Streetcar make much more sense?

That is something very different to just replacing existing double deckers with new ones.

Moving to BRT you need to do a lot more then just buy new buses, you need to build all the road infrastructure, bus stops, etc. to support it.

And even then, most routes wouldn't be suited to it and you'd still need double deckers for those routes.

I do hope with look at BRT again some day, I think it is suitable for some of the busiest routes, but it needs to be done properly.

ITV2

bk wrote: »

That is something very different to just replacing existing double deckers with new ones.

Moving to BRT you need to do a lot more then just buy new buses, you need to build all the road infrastructure, bus stops, etc. to support it.

And even then, most routes wouldn't be suited to it and you'd still need double deckers for those routes.

I do hope with look at BRT again some day, I think it is suitable for some of the busiest routes, but it needs to be done properly.

the 46/145/155 looks suitable with some minor changes to the routes..

bk

ITV2 wrote: »

the 46/145/155 looks suitable with some minor changes to the routes..

If you do it, you really want to do it properly. Properly means infrastructure that is only a small step down from Luas. Take a look at the plans for the BRT routes that were published just a few years ago, but now have been replaced by Busconnects. You are talking 10’s of millions in infrastructure per route. Each bus stop looked like a Luas stop, with off bus ticketing, ticket machines, etc.

I do think once Busconnects is done, it would be worth doing on some of the core routes suited to it.

Contrails

GT89 wrote: »

Looks the business. Although I'm not fully convinced by the livery I think the one that they are using on Go-Ahead routes is possibly better. I wonder will that livery just be on the hybrids or will it be rolled out to the rest of the DB and GAI fleet.

I honestly think the current NTA livery is an absolute camel of a thing. Ive long thought Dublin buses should be green (again... albeit a nicer shade this time). A bus livery for a capital city should be iconic.

If you hear the words "London Bus", you immediately think, "Red". It's just iconic... timeless. Green is the rightful colour for Dublin's buses imo. When people think of Dublin/Ireland... chances are they think green. Maybe in time it too will be iconic and synonymous with Dublin transport.

.G.

London is a bit of an outlier there though no? I'm not overly well travelled but how many capital citys have a bus livery most people in the world would know about? I've been in Madrid many many times and can't for the life of me even remember the buses let alone what colour they were, Ditto Berlin.

GT89

.G. wrote: »

London is a bit of an outlier there though no? I'm not overly well travelled but how many capital citys have a bus livery most people in the world would know about? I've been in Madrid many many times and can't for the life of me even remember the buses let alone what colour they were, Ditto Berlin.

That's true. Personally I don't really mind what colour the buses once they run efficiently just like I couldn't care less what advertisements. Of course I wouldn't want them too hideous looking so maybe pink with yellow polka dots with be a bit silly. My preference would be for something plain and simple.