Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

punisher5112

The ev buses use a diesel generator for heating I believe.

p_haugh

AlekSmart wrote: »

The demise of cash on Urban Bus services,on the other hand is now well overdue,particularly as the NTA assumes full responsibility for Revenue as and of 1st January 2021...just do it ! :eek:

Especially with the bus Connects routes to start changing over in early 2021, it would be the perfect time to switch over (even as a small scale trial on said routes before a fleet-wide rollout).

d51984

Any Broadstone lads on here? Try get pic of driver seat and cab.

GT89

Don't like the look of these electric buses over in London
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2599539000144731&id=1286511478114163

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

When all the hoohah subsides and reality takes a hand,a certain balance will return to the Powertrain issue. The Internal Combustion Engine is'nt gone yet...

https://www.sustainable-ic-enginevirtuallive.com/en/index.php

ICE is dead. Countries across Europe banning ICE sales in just 10 years. The above nonsense reminds me of Diesel gate. A dying industry desperately trying to avoid the inevitable.

EV’s are already cheaper in terms of Total Cost of Ownership and are expected to reach price parity with ICE within 2 to 3 years, even without subsidy. ICE is finished when that happens

GT89 mechanical failures can happen with any bus.

GT89

bk wrote: »

GT89 mechanical failures can happen with any bus.

Yeah but that one looks particularly serious one if it happened whilst in service. I've heard bad reports in general about Chinese made vehicles in fact most in China will go for European cars if they can afford them as Chinese vehicles are typically assoicated with being cheap, poor quality and even dangerous in some cases.

bk

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah but that one looks particularly serious one if it happened whilst in service. I've heard bad reports in general about Chinese made vehicles in fact most in China will go for European cars if they can afford them as Chinese vehicles are typically assoicated with being cheap, poor quality and even dangerous in some cases.

Except this is not a Chinese made bus, it is made by ADL in the UK, much the same as any other Enviro400. Only the drivetrain is made by BYD and their factory is in Hungary.

BYD also have a second factory in France.

So these are very much European buses.

As for your comments on Chinese cars, they are very out of date. Chinese car companies have made massive strides to improve quality and they are basically following the same formula that made Japanese and Korean cars so successful world wide and very high quality.

Chinese buying European cars has now flipped and you would be looked down on for not buying a Chinese made car.

There are of course still some extremely cheap Chinese cars (some crazy electric car bike things that cost like €1000!), but normal priced cars are hitting the same quality levels as other Asian companies.

The Chinese government basically want Chinese made cars to compete and dominate internationally like the Japanese/Koreans and they knew they had to push up quality to achieve that.

Also see Chinese owned European brands like Volvo, MG and Jaguar/Landrover (partly Indian owned too).

GT89

Probably a bit late to the party but pictures of the drivers cab can be found here
http://www.nbru.ie/nbru-bus-design-committee-views-new-alexander-dennis-bus-for-2021/

p_haugh

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

Peregrine

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

That design has really aged. I was disappointed they didn't go for the facelifted design for the newer Dublin Bus SGs like the VWDs.

punisher5112

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

These are the db spec ones, as in the front of an SG, wonder did they just use up what they had.

d51984

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

GT89

Peregrine wrote: »

That design has really aged. I was disappointed they didn't go for the facelifted design for the newer Dublin Bus SGs like the VWDs.

DB wanted the older design in order for commonality of parts. Apparently the NTA wanted the same spec as the SGs for the later Bus Eireann VWDs but BE wanted the newer design again for commonality of parts with their fleet to which the NTA agreed.

Not sure why BE didn't get the older front originally as they already have VWDs from 2014 and 2015 with the same front as the SGs but maybe DB dug in their heels more about commonality of parts.

punisher5112

d51984 wrote: »

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

Could be the case they will go into db or gai fleet after maybe or is it likely it was planned to be used in db and things changed.

GT89

I wonder will there be a trial of electric double deckers from a few manufacturers before they place an order similar to the hybrid trials? Currently the only ones on the market are the Optare Metrodeckers and the ADL/BYD ones but that might change as it wouldn't surprise me if Wrights partnered with someone for one and Volvo start doing aswell once they become more popular.

Peregrine

punisher5112 wrote: »

Could be the case they will go into db or gai fleet after maybe or is it likely it was planned to be used in db and things changed.

They were planned to be operated by BÉ before the order was placed.

AlekSmart

d51984 wrote: »

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

3 buses,2 different types of N/S mirror arm and 2 different mirrors,one of which appears to be heated.

d51984

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

punisher5112

d51984 wrote: »

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

Very true... BE would have heated mirrors....

It's something I found strand with db as the mirror are near useless in rain or foggy condition or when cold weather like now ....

1st one looks like UK spec...
Middle heated and last db spec

d51984

I woudnt be surprised if the interior in all 3 were different spec. Something tells me that these three buses were not orginally ment for Bus Eireann.

The diffetent mirror and older front design is strange.

GT89

d51984 wrote: »

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

City driving equal more risk of losing a mirror....

The routes be do would be outer Dublin and urban so fog up would be a bigger issue then inside Dublin.....

it's all down to costs and ease of change.....

punisher5112

Noticed the extra safety bar up frobt on offside but also the windows that open are one full window and not split, also they don't open at the front.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

Noticed the extra safety bar up frobt on offside but also the windows that open are one full window and not split, also they don't open at the front.

Yeah I don't like that design one of the things I like on the wright bodied buses is that nearly all the windows on the bus open whereas on the EVs and VTs the front windows don't open which can make it quite stuffy on a warm day if you sit at the front.

.anon.

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

That livery looks great. Hopefully it'll eventually be rolled out across the entire fleet, not just the hybrids, etc. I wasn't sure about the all-yellow front at first, but it looks very tidy.

AlekSmart

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

GT89

AlekSmart wrote: »

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

Yeah I remember you were saying I didn't know how advanced the sytems were until I did some further googling. It's not only UK manufacturers doing this but also continental manufacturers such as VDL I see.
https://www.vdlbuscoach.com/en/news/archive/cameras-replace-side-mirrors-innovation-helps-vdl-bus-coach-achieve-ambitions

I have also heard reports that ADL could be looking at moving manufacturing to Turkey with the first ADL buses to be made there being the Enviro 500 tri axles that were ordered for Berlin. Which I have to say on a sidenote that these are something which the NTA should really be looking at to replace the VT class. Unlike the VTs these have three doors and two staircases
https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/august/alexander-dennis-must-come-clean-over-opportunistic-job-cuts-and-turkey-outsourcing-plans/

punisher5112

AlekSmart wrote: »

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

Haven't had anyone bounce off the mirror in a while have to say....

.anon.

I've had a couple of incidents with existing camera technology that make me feel a bit iffy about using cameras instead of mirrors. The first involved shouting "last stop" over the PA several times until I realised that the man sitting upstairs on the CCTV screen had actually disembarked some time ago. The second was potentially more serious - the reverse camera screen froze and I came within a couple of inches of damaging two buses.

At the risk of being a Luddite, I don't see any major advantage in using cameras instead of mirrors.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

I've had a couple of incidents with existing camera technology that make me feel a bit iffy about using cameras instead of mirrors. The first involved shouting "last stop" over the PA several times until I realised that the man sitting upstairs on the CCTV screen had actually disembarked some time ago. The second was potentially more serious - the reverse camera screen froze and I came within a couple of inches of damaging two buses.

At the risk of being a Luddite, I don't see any major advantage in using cameras instead of mirrors.

Removes the chances of losing a mirror, removes the chances of hitting a pedestrian or someone at a bus stop with the mirror, makes the job that bit easier for the driver as they don't have to take into account the extra length of the mirror and it would improve the drivers vision on a wet day and less drag meaning better fuel consumption.

bk

GT89 wrote: »

Which I have to say on a sidenote that these are something which the NTA should really be looking at to replace the VT class. Unlike the VTs these have three doors and two staircases
https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/august/alexander-dennis-must-come-clean-over-opportunistic-job-cuts-and-turkey-outsourcing-plans/

Looks like a lovely bus and I love the way they operate it in mainland Europe, three doors and dual stairs, now that is how to operate a high capacity bus service. I'd love if we were to get these.

Unfortunately they don't seem to come as a hybrid or EV model yet, Euro 6 Diesel only.

I'm sure that will change soon, the way the market is going.

d51984

Any idea of when entry in to service is folks?

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

Removes the chances of losing a mirror, removes the chances of hitting a pedestrian or someone at a bus stop with the mirror, makes the job that bit easier for the driver as they don't have to take into account the extra length of the mirror and it would improve the drivers vision on a wet day and less drag meaning better fuel consumption.

I've never lost a mirror or (despite their best efforts at times) hit a pedestrian with one. If a bus company keeps losing mirrors, then they need to train their drivers better.

I'm imagining drivers and passengers sitting on the side of the road, waiting for a replacement bus because there's a blue screen of death where the mirror should be.

AlekSmart

.anon. wrote: »

I've never lost a mirror or (despite their best efforts at times) hit a pedestrian with one. If a bus company keeps losing mirrors, then they need to train their drivers better.

I'm imagining drivers and passengers sitting on the side of the road, waiting for a replacement bus because there's a blue screen of death where the mirror should be.

Imagination is a huge part of the Human function,and absolutely needed where we currently stand.

it is exactly this imagination which allowed us to dispense with the Red-Flag Man in 1896.

By this time next year,far more operational data will be available and we can decide for ourselves...or at least those deciding for us will have a better perception..?

punisher5112

Buses that have come to db or Gai such as GT or SG and anything before always came with the crappiest seats one could imagine especially when the bus cost say €300-350k...

I wonder what these new ones will be like as they are the same manufacturers from the previous ones which are terribly bad.

Last up to 40k km and they're knackered.


Seeing a lot of GAI drivers now bringing their own cushions to sit on.....

How this is even allowed continue is beyond me, inadequate cushioning and worn out seating is a major health and safety concern.

These seats up until SG 568 are absolutely shocking.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

Buses that have come to db or Gai such as GT or SG and anything before always came with the crappiest seats one could imagine especially when the bus cost say €300-350k...

I wonder what these new ones will be like as they are the same manufacturers from the previous ones which are terribly bad.

Last up to 40k km and they're knackered.


Seeing a lot of GAI drivers now bringing their own cushions to sit on.....

How this is even allowed continue is beyond me, inadequate cushioning and worn out seating is a major health and safety concern.

These seats up until SG 568 are absolutely shocking.

Yeah I've seen drivers with their own cushions alright which isn't great the seats mustn't be great so. Thought it was the same type of seat used since the older AVs. I noticed the seats in the likes of the 00 AVs and the RVs were like an office seat with no headrest wonder were these better.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah I've seen drivers with their own cushions alright which isn't great the seats mustn't be great so. Thought it was the same type of seat used since the older AVs. I noticed the seats in the likes of the 00 AVs and the RVs were like an office seat with no headrest wonder were these better.

For back support no, but as the seat cushion was uniform on both sides it was actually more comfortable but not great, the seat type fitted to the 2003 AV onwards were a huge improvement as back support and head rest were fitted....

The air seat cushion was and is shockingly bad.
They wear out the fastest of any type so far in my near 15 years.

GT89

Saw a picture of these buses in Ardee trim so they should be on their way for delivery to DB and BE soon enough.

d51984

Knowing Bus Eireann, it will be sometime next year before they put theirs in to service!

GT89

d51984 wrote: »

Knowing Bus Eireann, it will be sometime next year before they put theirs in to service!

Yeah some of the VBs they've gotten have still to enter service

d51984

One was in our depo in Clontarf this morning, dont know why as were not getting any.

Had a little nose inside and sat in the cab. Nice machine a vast improvement over our current models.

Bus was on was on trade plates and still was not registered.

d51984

Darren Hall has another photo up of one of the Bus Eireann hydrogen buses on his flickr.

It appears one is in full Dublin bus spec with the same seating etc.

The 3 buses appear to have different interior specs and are not similar internally.

d51984

On looking at the photo again, it looks like a Dublin Bus SG has been painted in to the new livery... Now im confused!

d51984

On closer look again, its SG311. So appears that the SGs will be painted in to the yellow/green livery.

*Edit, Darren Hall has updated photo to confirm it is indeed SG311. All euro 6 SG class buses will get new livery.

ITV2

138804388_3279194852186031_8846376999087530741_o.jpg

GT89

Looks well like the black trim around the windows think it looks good. I read that all the SGs will be painted into this livery but the VT, EV, VG and GT will not be. I'm also guessing the BE, DB, GAI and City Direct Streetlites will get this livery aswell. I believe SG345 will follow suit soon.

Peregrine

Peregrine wrote: »

These agreements are just for options. The agreement with ADL for the 600 hybrids allows the NTA to purchase between 0 and 600 buses. So far, they've placed 280 firm orders. There was an initial order of 100 buses with the official announcement and a further order of 180 buses a few weeks ago. They can choose to not buy the other 320 hybrids.

Peregrine wrote: »

The decision to order 180 more was made in September and the order was placed a few weeks ago. They would have known they'd be tendering for the battery electrics by then so it's probably what they estimate they'll need.

The current order for hybrids will keep coming in until 2023. The battery electrics will start delivery in the second half of 2022 according to the NTA... So say Q1 2023. So, unless the NTA thinks it suddenly needs more buses than planned around 2023-24 or if the battery electric buses take much longer to be delivered, I'd say that's it. I wouldn't be surprised with another small order but nowhere close to 600.

They will be placing another small order under the hybrids purchasing agreement to facilitate the capacity increase required for BusConnects but that's it.

GT89

I wonder will the SGs also get their seats and upholstery updated to the same as the new moquette that's on the hybrids just like some of the ex DB GAI B5TLs got theirs changed.

d51984

I hope so, the Dublin bus trim although its served its time well is getting a bit dated now.

What do you all think of the new livery? Im liking it, nice to see Green making a come back. Cant wait to see it in the flesh...

The yellow stripes around the front doors are unique, they make the doors look wider and make the bus look more inviting to wheelchair and pushchair users. Ide expect other bus companys to copy this over time.

Just one gripe on the front of the bus, it looks too plain. A touch of black paint on the wrights logo and around the day running lights would look great.

d51984

Another photo of one of the Bus Eireann 3.

Photo all about buses website.