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Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

belfast stephen

3 wrightbus bodied Streetdeck HEV's are in build at wrighbus in Northern ireland and are in DB livery but the blue has been changed to green and graphics applyed to the side of the bus and will Carry fleet number WH 1 WH 2 WH 3

HEV is hybrid electric vehicle

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GT89 wrote: »

Which I have to say on a sidenote that these are something which the NTA should really be looking at to replace the VT class. Unlike the VTs these have three doors and two staircases
https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/august/alexander-dennis-must-come-clean-over-opportunistic-job-cuts-and-turkey-outsourcing-plans/

Looks like a lovely bus and I love the way they operate it in mainland Europe, three doors and dual stairs, now that is how to operate a high capacity bus service. I'd love if we were to get these.

Unfortunately they don't seem to come as a hybrid or EV model yet, Euro 6 Diesel only.

I'm sure that will change soon, the way the market is going.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

I've had a couple of incidents with existing camera technology that make me feel a bit iffy about using cameras instead of mirrors. The first involved shouting "last stop" over the PA several times until I realised that the man sitting upstairs on the CCTV screen had actually disembarked some time ago. The second was potentially more serious - the reverse camera screen froze and I came within a couple of inches of damaging two buses.

At the risk of being a Luddite, I don't see any major advantage in using cameras instead of mirrors.

Removes the chances of losing a mirror, removes the chances of hitting a pedestrian or someone at a bus stop with the mirror, makes the job that bit easier for the driver as they don't have to take into account the extra length of the mirror and it would improve the drivers vision on a wet day and less drag meaning better fuel consumption.

.anon.

I've had a couple of incidents with existing camera technology that make me feel a bit iffy about using cameras instead of mirrors. The first involved shouting "last stop" over the PA several times until I realised that the man sitting upstairs on the CCTV screen had actually disembarked some time ago. The second was potentially more serious - the reverse camera screen froze and I came within a couple of inches of damaging two buses.

At the risk of being a Luddite, I don't see any major advantage in using cameras instead of mirrors.

punisher5112

AlekSmart wrote: »

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

Haven't had anyone bounce off the mirror in a while have to say....

GT89

AlekSmart wrote: »

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

Yeah I remember you were saying I didn't know how advanced the sytems were until I did some further googling. It's not only UK manufacturers doing this but also continental manufacturers such as VDL I see.
https://www.vdlbuscoach.com/en/news/archive/cameras-replace-side-mirrors-innovation-helps-vdl-bus-coach-achieve-ambitions

I have also heard reports that ADL could be looking at moving manufacturing to Turkey with the first ADL buses to be made there being the Enviro 500 tri axles that were ordered for Berlin. Which I have to say on a sidenote that these are something which the NTA should really be looking at to replace the VT class. Unlike the VTs these have three doors and two staircases
https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/august/alexander-dennis-must-come-clean-over-opportunistic-job-cuts-and-turkey-outsourcing-plans/

AlekSmart

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

As Transport for London's Bus Safety Standard (BSS) increasingly becomes the Research driven general standard for all City Bus types,particularly double - deck,the mirror arm issue will be resolved by the use of Camera Monitor Systems (CMS).

CMS fitment is now compulsory for all new TfL bus orders.

As both Wrightbus and ADL are partners with TfL on the research,it can be seen that their preferences will decide the issue rather than Management / Union design committee's.

There is,of course,an alternative,if in a post BREXIT scenario the economics of buying from the UK prove too onerous to ignore,and the NTA look to mainland Europe for future Bus specifications.....that could provide a most interesting situation for 2025 and beyond

.anon.

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

That livery looks great. Hopefully it'll eventually be rolled out across the entire fleet, not just the hybrids, etc. I wasn't sure about the all-yellow front at first, but it looks very tidy.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

Noticed the extra safety bar up frobt on offside but also the windows that open are one full window and not split, also they don't open at the front.

Yeah I don't like that design one of the things I like on the wright bodied buses is that nearly all the windows on the bus open whereas on the EVs and VTs the front windows don't open which can make it quite stuffy on a warm day if you sit at the front.

punisher5112

Noticed the extra safety bar up frobt on offside but also the windows that open are one full window and not split, also they don't open at the front.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

City driving equal more risk of losing a mirror....

The routes be do would be outer Dublin and urban so fog up would be a bigger issue then inside Dublin.....

it's all down to costs and ease of change.....

GT89

d51984 wrote: »

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

Yeah it kinda does it has the DB front but the bonded glazing which BE have on their VWDs aswell. Also looks like it has the DB style of drivers cab. The mirrors are strange is there a reason that BE have heated mirrors but not DB? Is it something that is generally only on coaches but not city buses but BE want it on their whole fleet. Heated mirrors would obivously be preferable for drivers I'd imagine so I'm surprised the union design commitees aren't looking at it. Surprised the NTA aren't looking at camera mirrors yet either.

d51984

I woudnt be surprised if the interior in all 3 were different spec. Something tells me that these three buses were not orginally ment for Bus Eireann.

The diffetent mirror and older front design is strange.

punisher5112

d51984 wrote: »

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

Very true... BE would have heated mirrors....

It's something I found strand with db as the mirror are near useless in rain or foggy condition or when cold weather like now ....

1st one looks like UK spec...
Middle heated and last db spec

d51984

Seems like they were just slapped together with whatever parts was left at wrights!

AlekSmart

d51984 wrote: »

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

3 buses,2 different types of N/S mirror arm and 2 different mirrors,one of which appears to be heated.

Peregrine

punisher5112 wrote: »

Could be the case they will go into db or gai fleet after maybe or is it likely it was planned to be used in db and things changed.

They were planned to be operated by BÉ before the order was placed.

GT89

I wonder will there be a trial of electric double deckers from a few manufacturers before they place an order similar to the hybrid trials? Currently the only ones on the market are the Optare Metrodeckers and the ADL/BYD ones but that might change as it wouldn't surprise me if Wrights partnered with someone for one and Volvo start doing aswell once they become more popular.

punisher5112

d51984 wrote: »

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

Could be the case they will go into db or gai fleet after maybe or is it likely it was planned to be used in db and things changed.

GT89

Peregrine wrote: »

That design has really aged. I was disappointed they didn't go for the facelifted design for the newer Dublin Bus SGs like the VWDs.

DB wanted the older design in order for commonality of parts. Apparently the NTA wanted the same spec as the SGs for the later Bus Eireann VWDs but BE wanted the newer design again for commonality of parts with their fleet to which the NTA agreed.

Not sure why BE didn't get the older front originally as they already have VWDs from 2014 and 2015 with the same front as the SGs but maybe DB dug in their heels more about commonality of parts.

d51984

They appear to have the older spec Bus Eireann seats. A good choice in my opinion.

Any one else notice the chrome wrights logo is missing on the third one, hopefully this is replaced before entry to service.

One more thing, hard to tell but it appears that theres a buggy bay as well as a wheelchair one.

punisher5112

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

These are the db spec ones, as in the front of an SG, wonder did they just use up what they had.

Peregrine

p_haugh wrote: »

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

That design has really aged. I was disappointed they didn't go for the facelifted design for the newer Dublin Bus SGs like the VWDs.

p_haugh

First pics I've seen of the Wright's Hydrogen buses that will be on trial with bus eireann. Interesting to note how they are the old style front, not the newer front found on the more recent Bus Eireann VWDs.

https://flic.kr/p/2kozTTd

GT89

Probably a bit late to the party but pictures of the drivers cab can be found here
http://www.nbru.ie/nbru-bus-design-committee-views-new-alexander-dennis-bus-for-2021/

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah but that one looks particularly serious one if it happened whilst in service. I've heard bad reports in general about Chinese made vehicles in fact most in China will go for European cars if they can afford them as Chinese vehicles are typically assoicated with being cheap, poor quality and even dangerous in some cases.

Except this is not a Chinese made bus, it is made by ADL in the UK, much the same as any other Enviro400. Only the drivetrain is made by BYD and their factory is in Hungary.

BYD also have a second factory in France.

So these are very much European buses.

As for your comments on Chinese cars, they are very out of date. Chinese car companies have made massive strides to improve quality and they are basically following the same formula that made Japanese and Korean cars so successful world wide and very high quality.

Chinese buying European cars has now flipped and you would be looked down on for not buying a Chinese made car.

There are of course still some extremely cheap Chinese cars (some crazy electric car bike things that cost like €1000!), but normal priced cars are hitting the same quality levels as other Asian companies.

The Chinese government basically want Chinese made cars to compete and dominate internationally like the Japanese/Koreans and they knew they had to push up quality to achieve that.

Also see Chinese owned European brands like Volvo, MG and Jaguar/Landrover (partly Indian owned too).

GT89

bk wrote: »

GT89 mechanical failures can happen with any bus.

Yeah but that one looks particularly serious one if it happened whilst in service. I've heard bad reports in general about Chinese made vehicles in fact most in China will go for European cars if they can afford them as Chinese vehicles are typically assoicated with being cheap, poor quality and even dangerous in some cases.

AlekSmart wrote: »

When all the hoohah subsides and reality takes a hand,a certain balance will return to the Powertrain issue. The Internal Combustion Engine is'nt gone yet...

https://www.sustainable-ic-enginevirtuallive.com/en/index.php

ICE is dead. Countries across Europe banning ICE sales in just 10 years. The above nonsense reminds me of Diesel gate. A dying industry desperately trying to avoid the inevitable.

EV’s are already cheaper in terms of Total Cost of Ownership and are expected to reach price parity with ICE within 2 to 3 years, even without subsidy. ICE is finished when that happens

GT89 mechanical failures can happen with any bus.

GT89

Don't like the look of these electric buses over in London
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2599539000144731&id=1286511478114163

d51984

Any Broadstone lads on here? Try get pic of driver seat and cab.

p_haugh

AlekSmart wrote: »

The demise of cash on Urban Bus services,on the other hand is now well overdue,particularly as the NTA assumes full responsibility for Revenue as and of 1st January 2021...just do it ! :eek:

Especially with the bus Connects routes to start changing over in early 2021, it would be the perfect time to switch over (even as a small scale trial on said routes before a fleet-wide rollout).