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Regency Hotel shooting trial collapses following Detective Superintendent's suicide

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    #212
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭tigger123


    I stand corrected!


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    #213
    Southdubin6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Southdubin6


    tigger123 wrote: »
    They are completely separate. What would the point of GSOC be if it were part of AGS?

    Where did you see that members of AGS are seconded to GSOC? Can Gardai even be seconded to another independent body?

    They aren't seconded to GSOC. GSOC rent out rooms in hotel to meet civilians who are meeting GSOC they won't even use stations. Completely independent of AGS


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    #214
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Southdubin6 wrote: »
    They aren't seconded to GSOC. GSOC rent out rooms in hotel to meet civilians who are meeting GSOC they won't even use stations. Completely independent of AGS

    So was Nuala O'Loan making it up or has there been a change of policy that prevents Gardai carrying out investigations on or working on behalf of GSOC ?


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    #215
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭tigger123


    RustyNut wrote: »
    So was Nuala O'Loan making it up or has there been a change of policy that prevents Gardai carrying out investigations on or working on behalf of GSOC ?

    Did she say they were conducting investigations? The quote above said they're working there, not conducting investigations.


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    #216
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Did she say they were conducting investigations? The quote above said they're working there, not conducting investigations.

    So this statement is untrue?
    Southdubin6 wrote: »
    They aren't seconded to GSOC. GSOC rent out rooms in hotel to meet civilians who are meeting GSOC they won't even use stations. Completely independent of AGS


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    #217
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭tigger123


    RustyNut wrote: »
    So this statement is untrue?

    Where is it being said that they conduct investigations?

    What relevance is it whether it not GSOC are renting hotel rooms to meet civilians?


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    #218
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,895 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Isn't it entirely possible that he was just leaving notes for whoever was going to take over the case, and tieing up loose ends?
    Even if he did make a mistake on the case, and from what I can tell it's not even confirmed yet that he did, why the jump from everyone to assume that's the reason he took his own life?

    It's impossible to know the reason with full certainty. Even if a suicide note says the reason is X, there is still an element of assumption involved.

    In this instance, there are comments in the thread that the notes referred to an "error of judgment", and if notes were left relating to the case that means it was one of the foremost things in his mind at the time.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/tragic-lead-investigator-regency-hotel-14033815
    A source said: “He had expressed concerns weeks earlier that he was being set up for a fall on the Regency investigation by defence barristers... People dismissed this as just general bunker mentality comments but clearly he was burdened by it.”
    The notes contained references to “mistakes” in the Regency investigation but did not go into detail.

    Given that these are comments in the national press (granted of unestablished veracity), it seems reasonable to consider scenario where the case played a part in the suicide, especially so if the defense counsel's remarks in relation to the garda emails and the photo ID hit the mark.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #219
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Isn't it entirely possible that he was just leaving notes for whoever was going to take over the case, and tieing up loose ends?

    Even if he did make a mistake on the case, and from what I can tell it's not even confirmed yet that he did, why the jump from everyone to assume that's the reason he took his own life?

    There’s another possibility which no one has mentioned - Det. Fox did nothing wrong at all, but his fellow officers did, and they pressured (or coerced) him into going along with it and not saying anything. Then, when the case began to fall apart because of those mistakes / malpractices (could be either), he couldn’t live with the guilt of having knowingly covered up for others and seeing that a potentially guilty man might get off because of that.

    Based in everything we saw in the Maurice McCabe case, police officers in groups which are flouting the rules or the law do not take kindly to being called out on it or ratted out by others, so this seems as likely an explanation as any.

    But I personally don’t buy any explanation for this which doesn’t involve his final notes or the subsequently trawled communications not turning up some serious f*ck ups or wrongdoings, and that this is ultimately why the case collapsed. The timeline of events points to something more serious - this was not a routine investigation into a Garda’s death, this involved substantial forensic examination of electronic devices (I remember reading one article last summer suggesting that GSOC were going as far as appealing to a manufacturer for help decrypting one of the devices without knowing the credentials for it) and in my view clearly hints at something more substantial than a run of the mill investigation.

    Obviously I could be entirely wrong, but I doubt we’ll remain in the dark about it if I’m not.


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    #220
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    For feck sake lads have you still not worked out what happened??
    I've told you it's easy step back forget the spin ...
    When all of officialdom all spins the same story it obvious they are hiding something.
    Listen to David Byrne's sisters interview on rte news on the day of the charges were struck out she said what happened.


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    #221
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    For feck sake lads have you still not worked out what happened??
    I've told you it's easy step back forget the spin ...
    When all of officialdom all spins the same story it obvious they are hiding something.
    Listen to David Byrne's sisters interview on rte news on the day of the charges were struck out she said what happened.

    Spit it out.


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    #222
    safeasparagus
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭safeasparagus


    Will the results of the GSOC investigation into Dec Fox death be made public ?


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    #223
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    For feck sake lads have you still not worked out what happened??
    I've told you it's easy step back forget the spin ...

    I think pretty much everyone has it figured out at this stage. Once you disregard the spin, as you say, then its clear what went on. Still sad.

    No way the papers could be printing it for the moment though.


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    #224
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Charles Ingles wrote: »
    For feck sake lads have you still not worked out what happened??
    I've told you it's easy step back forget the spin ...
    When all of officialdom all spins the same story it obvious they are hiding something.
    Listen to David Byrne's sisters interview on rte news on the day of the charges were struck out she said what happened.


    Nobody has queried why the defense barristers knew there were compromising emails.


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    #225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    I think pretty much everyone has it figured out at this stage. Once you disregard the spin, as you say, then its clear what went on. Still sad.

    No way the papers could be printing it for the moment though.

    spit it out


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    #226
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

    Nobody has queried why the defense barristers knew there were compromising emails.

    The history of the search is well publicised. There was inconsistencies in the description of the ID process. The barristers asked for all correspondence involving the process. They whittled it down to 4 gardai.

    The emails were eventually released to the defence.


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