Regency Hotel shooting trial collapses following Detective Superintendent's suicide

fonesmasher1

How could this happen? DSi Colm Fox was the lead investigator when he shot himself in Ballymun station. Surely his successor could try and pick up the case?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Investigators made a cockup of the identification process.

Allinall

I would have more faith in the DPP and their Counsel to make an informed decision to withdraw from the case, over some ransomer with their first post on Boards.ie.

Beta Ray Bill

Welcome to Boards.ie fonesmasher1, great first post.

I don't know why this happened.
All I do know is, that there is an increasing number of Garda committing suicide.

I'd speculate that the Garda are undermanned and that there wasn't anyone available, with the experience and knowledge that this person had, to pick up where he left off.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Allinall wrote: »

I would have more faith in the DPP and their Counsel to make an informed decision to withdraw from the case, over some ransomer with their first post on Boards.ie.

This is a monumental cock up. Have faith all you want.

_Brian

If the guard committed suicide that’s a terrible tragedy.

I would however ask how bad are the systems that the next appointment can’t pick up the case, perhaps ask for a delay and still follow a conviction.

My fear here is some mistakes were made along the way and evidence gathered is useless.

It’s very hard to have faith in anjistice system that can’t bring high profile cases to conclusion.

DEFTLEFTHAND

They made a basic error in the ID process.

They can't use the two witnesses who were willing to ID Hutch as they showed them the video footage at the same time in the same room.

It's highly embarrassing for all involved.

_Brian

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They made a basic error in the ID process.

They can't use the two witnesses who were willing to ID Hutch as they showed them the video footage at the same time in the same room.

It's highly embarrassing for all involved.

That seems an awful error, and we’re to beleive this was unintentional?

sk8erboii

fonesmasher1 wrote: »

How could this happen? DSi Colm Fox was the lead investigator when he shot himself in Ballymun station. Surely his successor could try and pick up the case?

Nobody finds it suspicious that the lead investigator suicides?

Criminal informer

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They made a basic error in the ID process.

They can't use the two witnesses who were willing to ID Hutch as they showed them the video footage at the same time in the same room.

It's highly embarrassing for all involved.

Two detectives not witnesses! Even the reporters are saying there's a lot more to come out, to say he got aquitted just because of ID is naive. The longer gardai stay quite the more rumours will follow as to why.

partyguinness

Allinall wrote: »

I would have more faith in the DPP and their Counsel to make an informed decision to withdraw from the case, over some ransomer with their first post on Boards.ie.

This is a discussion forum so what was the point in the post?

_Brian

Does this stop the DPP getting their house in order and bringing another case ?

zapitastas

You would imagine this was an open goal. High profile assassination and people filmed entering and leaving the scene and the whole incident witnessed by a substantial amount of people.

dundalkfc10

Gardai, Army, Housing, Health, Justice System, Politics are all a joke in this country.

My mam has pestered me for 8 months now that my own son is born, to get out of here quick. I fear she may be right more and more every day

MrFresh

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They made a basic error in the ID process.

They can't use the two witnesses who were willing to ID Hutch as they showed them the video footage at the same time in the same room.

It's highly embarrassing for all involved.

Where did you get this from?

zapitastas

Does this mean flat cap could also have walked if he was still alive?

PingTing comes for Fire

Emotional call for Justice. not a hint of irony


https://twitter.com/mickthehack/status/1098174778693832704

Guy:Incognito

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Gardai, Army, Housing, Health, Justice System, Politics are all a joke in this country.

My mam has pestered me for 8 months now that my own son is born, to get out of here quick. I fear she may be right more and more every day

Sure head to the UK. They seem to know what they're at over there..........

PingTing comes for Fire

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Sure head to the UK. They seem to know what they're at over there..........

That's the choice we should all have.
Accept the cosy corruption of the establishment or if you don't want to then fcuk off out of the country.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

sk8erboii wrote: »

Nobody finds it suspicious that the lead investigator suicides?

Shot himself twice in the head

_Brian

PingTing comes for Fire wrote: »

That's the choice we should all have.
Accept the cosy corruption of the establishment or if you don't want to then fcuk off out of the country.

It would be foolish to beleive Ireland is the only country with corruption problems. I think it’s a bit written into Irish DNA to emigrate

PingTing comes for Fire

_Brian wrote: »

It would be foolish to beleive Ireland is the only country with corruption problems.

Stunning insight. You're not foolish anyway.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

_Brian wrote: »

It would be foolish to beleive Ireland is the only country with corruption problems. I think it’s a bit written into Irish DNA to emigrate

We are ranked 18th on the world corruption index, we have very low levels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Your Face

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat, just in case.

vicwatson

PingTing comes for Fire wrote: »

Emotional call for Justice. not a hint of irony


https://twitter.com/mickthehack/status/1098174778693832704

That wan shouting out all over the place about the Garda as if his family won’t see it, classy woman

whisky_galore

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Gardai, Army, Housing, Health, Justice System, Politics are all a joke in this country.

My mam has pestered me for 8 months now that my own son is born, to get out of here quick. I fear she may be right more and more every day

Faraway hills are green.

You're right, this country is a right hell hole. Afghanistan looks good right now.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alright. We’re better than Afghanistan but what happened here?

spurious

Sydney Tinkling Joker wrote: »

We are ranked 18th on the world corruption index, we have very low levels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Or we are very good at it and nobody suspects how corrupt we are.

judeboy101

Why are gsoc involved in a suicide? I'm assuming because a gun involved, but something smells off.

partyguinness

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Gardai, Army, Housing, Health, Justice System, Politics are all a joke in this country.

My mam has pestered me for 8 months now that my own son is born, to get out of here quick. I fear she may be right more and more every day

The grass is not greener. Ireland is one of the safest and best countties in the world to live.



Don't believe me? Fine, go away and find out for yourself.


As a matter of interest, where else in the world has your mother lived?

utyh2ikcq9z76b

partyguinness wrote: »

The grass is not greener. Ireland is one of the safest and best countties in the world to live.



Don't believe me? Fine, go away and find out for yourself.


As a matter of interest, where else in the world has your mother lived?

Yep we have a great society here, every opportunity available to you and a good social net

dundalkfc10

partyguinness wrote: »

The grass is not greener. Ireland is one of the safest and best countties in the world to live.



Don't believe me? Fine, go away and find out for yourself.


As a matter of interest, where else in the world has your mother lived?

She has lived in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Isle of Man

Charles Ingles

I heard the true story a year ago and was told this would happen today.
It's explosive and I'd be banned if I posted up here but be prepared for shocking news regarding this case and gsoc inquiry.
If you take a step back forget media spin it's actually quite easy to work out.

swarlb

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

She has lived in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Isle of Man

Which one have you decided on ?

Jimbob1977

I thought this was an "open and shut" case.

The perpetrators were seen by dozens of witnesses and photographed making an escape.

Jury should have been home by lunch

Franz Von Peppercorn

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I thought this was an "open and shut" case.

The perpetrators were seen by dozens of witnesses and photographed making an escape.

Jury should have been home by lunch

It was expected to be two weeks.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

She has lived in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Isle of Man

Those are pretty good countries alright. Why did she come back?

partyguinness

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

She has lived in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Isle of Man

Really...so why did she come back if it so rubbish in Ireland.

Did she actually live there for a decent period of time or was just a travelling thing.

safeasparagus

partyguinness wrote: »

Really...so why did she come back if it so rubbish in Ireland.

Did she actually live there for a decent period of time or was just a travelling thing.

Who Cares !!!!

Phibsboro

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I thought this was an "open and shut" case.

The perpetrators were seen by dozens of witnesses and photographed making an escape.

Jury should have been home by lunch

That is why it is probably not as simple as messing up the two guards' ID. You have to think they'd have a good handful of other guards they could get to view the video and also ID Hutch. Looking at the news reports, the sequence of events is that the ID was actually accepted by the court after initial dispute from the defense. The defense then asked for copies of emails between the 4 guards involved (presumably Fox, the guard who organised the ID and the two ID'ing guards), with a view to showing they had coordinated their statements. Within 3 days of that request, Fox killed himself. Subsequently, as the case was postponed on multiple occasions waiting for the inquiry into Fox's death to finish, the court heard that

a mobile phone, laptop computer and two USB devices were being analysed as part of the inquiry, which also included “a significant amount” of documentation and statements.

That all sounds like a much more serious issue than the two ID'ing guards watching the video together instead of separately. The news reports seem to indicate the inquiry finished late last year, so the question now is will it be made public?

NIMAN

I find this baffling.

Law leaves me wondering at times. A man has his photo taken running from a hotel where a man was shot dead. And he's holding a gun.

But sure, away you go, you're grand.

godtabh

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I thought this was an "open and shut" case.

The perpetrators were seen by dozens of witnesses and photographed making an escape.

Jury should have been home by lunch

No jury

John_Rambo

Charles Ingles wrote: »

I heard the true story a year ago and was told this would happen today.
It's explosive and I'd be banned if I posted up here but be prepared for shocking news regarding this case and gsoc inquiry.
If you take a step back forget media spin it's actually quite easy to work out.

I'm going to say it, I can't work it out exactly. But if there's a chance that the sadly departed Det Supt Colm Fox was "got to" and forced to do the inexplicable to protect his loved ones we're in to GUBU stuff that may even overreach the tragic and heinous Veronica Guerin murder. It could rock the foundations of An Garda Siochana and our justice system and put us up there with Italian and Russian mafia coercion of the highest level against the state.

punisher5112

Special three judge court for these types of gang related killings... Drugs etc etc.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

She has lived in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Isle of Man

I've been to them all except Canada, pretty similar values to Ireland, basically all English speaking western world countries, the only thing foreign about em is the distance

Charles Ingles

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm going to say it, I can't work it out exactly. But if there's a chance that the sadly departed Det Supt Colm Fox was "got to" and forced to do the inexplicable to protect his loved ones we're in to GUBU stuff that may even overreach the tragic and heinous Veronica Guerin murder. It could rock the foundations of An Garda Siochana and our justice system and put us up there with Italian and Russian mafia coercion of the highest level against the state.

Worse than that my friend much worse

Criminal informer

NIMAN wrote: »

I find this baffling.

Law leaves me wondering at times. A man has his photo taken running from a hotel where a man was shot dead. And he's holding a gun.

But sure, away you go, you're grand.

"Drag lady" was ID'd as Patrick by 2 detectives which was admissible out of 500 guards asked to look at the pictures!

Patrick was charged with murder and possession of 3 aks, where Byrne was killed by an ak gunman dressed as a guard and "drag lady" was in possession of a handgun.

Patrick was going to be found not guilty if it went to full trial, too much doubt on ID, murder and possession of the aks.

bonkers67

Sydney Tinkling Joker wrote: »

We are ranked 18th on the world corruption index, we have very low levels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

If you believe that I’ve a bridge to sell you.

orourkeda1977

fonesmasher1 wrote: »

How could this happen? DSi Colm Fox was the lead investigator when he shot himself in Ballymun station. Surely his successor could try and pick up the case?

I dont understand this myself.

evolving_doors

_Brian wrote: »

Does this stop the DPP getting their house in order and bringing another case ?

No

bonkers67

bonkers67 wrote: »

If you believe that I’ve a bridge to sell you.

pfft

international ranking by experts nah mate listen mate i heard different mate

barstooling