Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Podge_irl

Former Former wrote: »

The solution to this mess is getting the players to understand the rules and their responsibilities.

You would kind of hope everyone would at least quickly read the information that comes with any medication. Not sure anyone should bother going to the effort of an expensive set up to get around that requirement.

salmocab

Panda Killa wrote: »

Unfortunately, it was an idea I had myself... but there has to be some checks put in place..to make the players responsible is fundamentally flawed.
My thinking was that it would be the doctors responsibility...if a player needs meds...he gets them.
Surely in this day and age the provinces can work out a deal with a particular pharmacy and try to eliminate this kind of mess

It will always be the athletes ultimate responsibility, if a club decided to go rogue and dope their players your idea seems the best place to start.

Panda Killa

salmocab wrote: »

It will always be the athletes ultimate responsibility, if a club decided to go rogue and dope their players your idea seems the best place to start.

Since it's the IRFU I would hope not

Panda Killa

irelandrover wrote: »

The pharmacy made a mistake. How would having an in house pharmacy mean that a mistake was impossible?

Not in-house
Doctor is responsible for prescriptions, and physically giving them to players.
Not too many James Cronin's playing for Munster.
If a mistake is made .the doctor can easily rectify the mistake

salmocab

Panda Killa wrote: »

Since it's the IRFU I would hope not

Well obviously not but your suggesting a system where the player isn’t ultimately responsible for his body. It will always and should always be the athletes responsibility as to what goes into his body.

irishbucsfan

Panda Killa wrote: »

Not in-house
Doctor is responsible for prescriptions, and physically giving them to players.
Not too many James Cronin's playing for Munster.
If a mistake is made .the doctor can easily rectify the mistake

The provinces already have doctors on staff, generally part time for obvious enough reasons. They don't need to treat players like children, they just need to educate players to check anything they're taking, like professional athletes. I'm sure the docs are happy to take a call if they have any questions!

There'll always be mistakes though to be fair. It's unrealistic to expect 100% of people to be 100% sure about everything they're taking 100% of the time. Fairly reassuring it was caught, if anything.

Richie_Rich89

Panda Killa wrote: »

This had occurred to me as well ..with all the professional parts of the IRFU... possibly the most important non playing part is doping .. there is most definitely a need for an in-house pharmacy to eliminate any chance of a further disaster...

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/if-ever-there-was-a-perfect-week-for-munster-and-the-irfu-to-bury-bad-news-this-was-it-james-cronin/

Interesting idea. Get someone in to give advice to the players and supply them with what they need. Maybe a bit like Jamie Astaphan and Charlie Francis's group.

Thrashssacre

So with the new signings presumably coming in by the time rugby is back what do yous guys see as munsters strongest potential 15/23 providing everyone is fully fit?

aloooof

Thrashssacre wrote: »

So with the new signings presumably coming in by the time rugby is back what do yous guys see as munsters strongest potential 15/23 providing everyone is fully fit?

To me, this wouldn't be far off:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Kleyn
5. Snyman
6. POM
7. JOD
8. CJ
9. Murray
10. Carbery
11. Earls
12. De Allende
13. Farrell
14. Conway
15. Haley

16. Marshall
17. Loughman
18. Archer
19. Beirne
20. TOD
21. Casey
22. JJ
23. Goggin

Buer

You'd have to wonder if Rory Scannell will be considering his future. He's someone who had Irish ambitions not that long ago although they seem to have fallen by the wayside. He's highly unlikely to be selected ahead of DDA or Farrell in the centre and you'd have to think JJH would be the logical choice for the 22 slot as he covers more and is an established goal kicker. None of those guys will be in the Irish 23 either (Farrell would be in the event of injuries).

He's still only 26 but, if he wants to really maximise his career, he might be departing Munster and Ireland. I think he has a contract up to the end of 2021 at which time he'll really need to consider his options.

Cookiemunster

aloooof wrote: »

To me, this wouldn't be far off:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Kleyn
5. Snyman
6. POM
7. JOD
8. CJ
9. Murray
10. Carbery
11. Earls
12. De Allende
13. Farrell
14. Conway
15. Haley

16. Marshall
17. Loughman
18. Archer
19. Beirne
20. TOD
21. Casey
22. JJ
23. Goggin

There's still one glaring problem with that team. JOD is not and never will be a 7. I'd start a fit TOD there every day of the week.

Panda Killa

aloooof wrote: »

To me, this wouldn't be far off:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Kleyn
5. Snyman
6. POM
7. JOD
8. CJ
9. Murray
10. Carbery
11. Earls
12. De Allende
13. Farrell
14. Conway
15. Haley

16. Marshall
17. Loughman
18. Archer
19. Beirne
20. TOD
21. Casey
22. JJ
23. Goggin

I think Gallagher has been signed to slot in at 15

mahoney_j

aloooof wrote: »

To me, this wouldn't be far off:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Kleyn
5. Snyman
6. POM
7. JOD
8. CJ
9. Murray
10. Carbery
11. Earls
12. De Allende
13. Farrell
14. Conway
15. Haley

16. Marshall
17. Loughman
18. Archer
19. Beirne
20. TOD
21. Casey
22. JJ
23. Goggin

Tadgh Beirne at 6 pom 7 tod bench

Buer

Panda Killa wrote: »

I think Gallagher has been signed to slot in at 15

Quite likely but I'd say he's also signed with an eye to Keith Earls winding down (33 in October) and they'll look to accommodate Haley and MG both in the back three in time.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Quite likely but I'd say he's also signed with an eye to Keith Earls winding down (33 in October) and they'll look to accommodate Haley and MG both in the back three in time.

There was talk online that MG was replacing Haley with Haley returning to England in the summer, releasing him the final year of his deal but due to Covid who knows what will happen.

Munster have a lot of decisions to make in the back three. Conway is a certain starter but with Earls maybe having 1-2 top seasons left there are spots up for grabs. Only Gallagher and Conway are signed up past 2020/21. Sweetnam and Wootton looked like big prospects but they've been injured recently and Shane Daly has emerged in the interim. Calvin Nash will hopefully get more opportunties and Liam Coombes was promoted from the academy.

Panda Killa

Interesting to see that Jean DV had a little late to play in our 2 latest Saffer recruits
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/damian-de-allende-rg-snyman-munster-jean-de-villiers-211296?fbclid=IwAR0kyOYYQ9xN4FIa7Kr9ifIo3bNRmAA_g21GRORcA_m1x0OHFjRiosko2Os

Richie_Rich89

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Niall Scannell
3. Stephen Archer/John Ryan
4. Billy Holland
5. R.G. Snyman
6. C.J. Stander
7. Peter O'Mahony
8. Jack O'Sullivan
9. Conor Murray
10. J.J. Hanrahan
11. Shane Daly
12. Rory Scannell
13. Damian de Allende
14. Andrew Conway
15. Matt Gallagher

16. Kevin O'Byrne
17. David Kilcoyne
18. John Ryan/Stephen Archer/Keynan Knox
19. Gavin Coombes
20. John Hodnett
21. Craig Casey
22. Dan Goggin/Ben Healy
23. Keith Earls

Very tough on Jack O'Donoghue. He's been excellent recently and well deserved his Ireland call-up. He's a first-rate blindside and a very useful no. 8. He's better in the lineout as a 6 than Stander but would probably need to be somewhat better either in terms of handling skills or powerful ball carrying to be a top, top level 8. I think it would be worth giving O'Sullivan a serious selection push. He's very dynamic in the carry and is a classy footballer. I'd say he's potentially better than Doris and Deegan.

Coombes and Hodnett cover the back five of the pack positions very well between them and are probably the best options for making a physical impact off the bench.

Kilcoyne is probably best suited to the role of bench impact player and Loughman's skilset probably makes him a better fit if they want to play a smarter game.

I'd say de Allende at 13 might work better given Munster's other options in the centre. If it was him at 12 do Munster have a 13 capable of making use of the space he'd create for them?

Carbery will probably get injured again.

The Lost Sheep

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Niall Scannell
3. Stephen Archer/John Ryan
4. Billy Holland
5. R.G. Snyman
6. C.J. Stander
7. Peter O'Mahony
8. Jack O'Sullivan
9. Conor Murray
10. J.J. Hanrahan
11. Shane Daly
12. Rory Scannell
13. Damian de Allende
14. Andrew Conway
15. Matt Gallagher

16. Kevin O'Byrne
17. David Kilcoyne
18. John Ryan/Stephen Archer/Keynan Knox
19. Gavin Coombes
20. John Hodnett
21. Craig Casey
22. Dan Goggin/Ben Healy
23. Keith Earls

Very tough on Jack O'Donoghue. He's been excellent recently and well deserved his Ireland call-up. He's a first-rate blindside and a very useful no. 8. He's better in the lineout as a 6 than Stander but would probably need to be somewhat better either in terms of handling skills or powerful ball carrying to be a top, top level 8. I think it would be worth giving O'Sullivan a serious selection push. He's very dynamic in the carry and is a classy footballer. I'd say he's potentially better than Doris and Deegan.

Coombes and Hodnett cover the back five of the pack positions very well between them and are probably the best options for making a physical impact off the bench.

Kilcoyne is probably best suited to the role of bench impact player and Loughman's skilset probably makes him a better fit if they want to play a smarter game.

I'd say de Allende at 13 might work better given Munster's other options in the centre. If it was him at 12 do Munster have a 13 capable of making use of the space he'd create for them?

Carbery will probably get injured again.

Jack o f handling skills are top class it's not that that is an issue. Cj at 8 with Jack o d ahead of Jack o sul on blindside
Farrell maybe at 13. Or goggin.

Caranica

Arno is out of contract at the end of the season but good to know he's got a place to go if this is true.

https://twitter.com/DjRossouw87/status/1259008408851808263?s=09

Panda Killa

Yeah, with the lack of international games on the horizon, he's not really needed anymore, wish him all the best

mahoney_j

When normality resumes hooefully carbery will be back fighting fit but my wish is to see Ben Healy been given a fair crack ,jj just too inconsistent and has been around longer enough and given enough chances he’s a squad player at best Healy whilst young looks the part

thomond2006

Panda Killa wrote: »

Yeah, with the lack of international games on the horizon, he's not really needed anymore, wish him all the best

He was a good option to have while the likes of Hodnett and JOS were developing in the background. Now they're ready to take his spot.

Former Former

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/james-cronin-doping-case-still-under-consideration-as-sport-ireland-seek-full-file-39193648.html

Interesting. Even if nothing comes of it, a bit more transparency is no bad thing.

Cookiemunster

Former Former wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/james-cronin-doping-case-still-under-consideration-as-sport-ireland-seek-full-file-39193648.html

Interesting. Even if nothing comes of it, a bit more transparency is no bad thing.

Where exactly has the lack of transparency been?

Eod100

Have been out of the loop on any squad news lately. Have there been any announcements on players who's contract is up at end of season yet? Or will Munster wait until it's known whether this season will finish before those sort of announcements? Is it just De Allende, Snyman and Gallagher coming in?

The Lost Sheep

Eod100 wrote: »

Have been out of the loop on any squad news lately. Have there been any announcements on players who's contract is up at end of season yet? Or will Munster wait until it's known whether this season will finish before those sort of announcements? Is it just De Allende, Snyman and Gallagher coming in?

there likely wont be any announcements as noone really knows when any games will be played next

Former Former

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Where exactly has the lack of transparency been?

I didn't say there was any.

But in the best case scenario, you have a doping violation that has been explained by an incredible confluence of events and which resulted in no punishment for the player. The investigation itself seems to have been brief to the point of being worthless.

Given rugby's questionable attitude to doping, I think it's good optics for the sport for someone else to be looking at it. If there's no grounds for objection, then that's good news.

There are still a lot of very odd questions about this case which just aren't answered by what has been published by EPCR.

Kirk Van Houten

Former Former wrote: »

I didn't say there was any.

But in the best case scenario, you have a doping violation that has been explained by an incredible confluence of events and which resulted in no punishment for the player. The investigation itself seems to have been brief to the point of being worthless.

Given rugby's questionable attitude to doping, I think it's good optics for the sport for someone else to be looking at it. If there's no grounds for objection, then that's good news.

There are still a lot of very odd questions about this case which just aren't answered by what has been published by EPCR.

What do you feel hasn't been answered?

Burkie1203

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

What do you feel hasn't been answered?

Cronin wasn't interviewed by the JO which is strange.

The pharmacy has links to people within the Munster set up.

The pharmacy didn't put an address in the prescription details when dispensing. That's a breach of protocol.

Its all too neat.

Kirk Van Houten

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Cronin wasn't interviewed by the JO which is strange.

The pharmacy has links to people within the Munster set up.

The pharmacy didn't put an address in the prescription details when dispensing. That's a breach of protocol.

Its all too neat.

Cronin waived his right to have this heard by a judicial committee and accepted the charge from the off. That means no hearing and formal questioning of Cronin himself. If you believe this is unusual do you have stats of how often a JO will interview someone who has pleaded guilty and there is no hearing?

I'm unaware so what are the links of the pharmacy to the Munster set up?

In the official report on the EPRC website the details relating to what was on the medicine when it was dispensed have been redacted. Where are you getting the detail of the address being missing?