L drivers, cars taken

meeeeh

We were only allowed to drive with instructor present. My cousin who grew up on a farm passed his test after 18 lessons, it took me 40 (which was a lot). I was nervous learner and needed longer and was only allowed to do the test when instructor signed it off. I passed in second attempt, nerves in the first one meant I didn't even make it from the car park properly. To let someone on the road unaccompanied just because they had 12 lessons is complete madness.

Posy

brightspark wrote: »

Instructors should also have to display the pass rates of their students.

If they had to do this, instructors would be far less likely to take on nervous pupils or those who are rattled under pressure during mock-tests, as it would make their numbers look bad. I don't think pass rates alone make an instructor good or bad.

pablo128 wrote: »

Would you let a doctor near you who had gone to medical school but not completed any exams?

Is that not why it's called practicing medicine? :pac:

The Lost Sheep

Posy wrote: »

If they had to do this, instructors would be far less likely to take on nervous pupils or those who are rattled under pressure during mock-tests, as it would make their numbers look bad. I don't think pass rates alone make an instructor good or bad.

Is that not why it's called practicing medicine? :pac:

Totally agree with that. It took 3 attempts for me to pass and it was nothing to do with ability. I have anxiety which were prime factors in my failing.
Pass rates are far from being alone in what makes instructor good/bad

goat2

watching the news today
There is one teenager killed and 3 injured in a car crash, the driver was 16 yr old and he is dead.
I thought a person cannot apply for a driver licence until they turn 17,

The Lost Sheep

goat2 wrote: »

watching the news today
There is one teenager killed and 3 injured in a car crash, the driver was 16 yr old and he is dead.
I thought a person cannot apply for a driver licence until they turn 17,

You can drive from 16 as if you pass theory test and get provisional you can drive with a full licenced driver beside you.

amcalester

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You can drive from 16 as if you pass theory test and get provisional you can drive with a full licenced driver beside you.

You can drive a work vehicle from 16 but not a car, have to be 17 to drive a car.

goat2

amcalester wrote: »

You can drive a work vehicle from 16 but not a car, have to be 17 to drive a car.

I had been thinking that, but thought the law might have changed unbeknown to me

CrabRevolution

It's amazing how not one person has ever failed the driving test due to not being good enough, it's always due to an arsehole of a tester, feeling nervous, too many small faults (which apparently aren't faults) etc.

doolox

Would it be possible to restrict learners to quieter roads for a set period in order to build up experience gradually?

I remember restricting myself to quiet, rural areas near my home for a few weeks until I built up enough confidence to drive in more densely trafficked areas.

Whatever people now may think about it, young learner drivers in my days were never checked for their licences and never stopped unless they engaged in some egregiously bad driving, attracting the attention of the often scarce traffic guards.

My father got his first licence just after the second world war in 1945 when he was 20 yrs old. Driving wasn't allowed except in extreme need and transport reasons because petrol was severely rationed and scarce. He simply bought the licence with no picture ID, no address and no date of birth on it. Anyone could have presented the licence at a check point and got away not having a licence since there was no way to tell who it applied to.

The story goes that Dad and his older brother were out driving when Dad was stopped at a checkpoint and asked to produce his licence within 7 days at the local barracks ( Garda Station ). He produced his brothers licence and claimed that his name was really his brothers name. With no picture or date of birth to go by he got away with it.

After a decent interval he bought his own licence in his own name and nothing more happened, no test, no picture or birth cert or proof of address needed, a gangsters paradise, but people were not that way inclined in those days, most were very honest. His licence allowed him to drive ANYTHING, HGV's, busses etc. which wouldn't happen today.

The driving test was introduced in 1964 but the licences did not have picture ID until the mid 90's. This led to some merriment and puzzlement when I was assigned to work related duties in the US in the early 90's. The police could not believe that Irish licences had no picture ID. We were strongly advised to carry our passports with us at all times when driving over there to have definitive proof of identity.

I remember two of my workmates could not drive at the time but they got US driving licences which allowed them to drive automatic cars after a very brief test in a supermarket car park adjacent to the local test driving center. DMV (department of motor vehicles) had a very short waiting list, a very polite and courteous tester and a very simple test. Unlike the driver testers at home at that time. In 1979 an amnesty exempting holders of second or subsequent provisional driving licences and already having done or applied to do at least one driving test could get a full licence without having passed a driving test.

I had done but failed one driving test at that time but still got a full licence.
As far as I recall my sister had applied for but did not actually sit her first test but still got the full licence. My two older sisters did not get full licences, one does not drive at all and never did after a few attempts trying to learn which did not turn out well. The other sister drove locally for 30 years on a learners permit. She never sat a test and gave up driving after that time when she retired.

My mother never learned to drive and never expressed an interest in doing so although her two sisters learned to drive in their mid-70's when their husbands died. My family must be one of the very few in this country where not one member has ever passed a driving test.

My lack of a passed driving test makes me very cautious to read up and update my road rule knowledge as best as I can on a regular basis. I find the online theory test very useful for keeping up to date and would not be against sitting such a test as a condition for licence renewal especially if a driver was trying to plead ignorance as a mitigating circumstance for some traffic offence. I know that in the States some traffic offenders can be made to resit drivers education classes in the event of committing some road traffic offences. others may have to resit the complete test, practical and all in some serious cases.

Hopefully, if Ireland gets its test waiting times down to some reasonable level, such measures could be introduced here for more experienced but out of date drivers.

JP Liz V1

goat2 wrote: »

watching the news today
There is one teenager killed and 3 injured in a car crash, the driver was 16 yr old and he is dead.
I thought a person cannot apply for a driver licence until they turn 17,

Would increasing the driving age to 21 be a solution?

pablo128

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would increasing the driving age to 21 be a solution?

I fail to see how that would be a solution.

amcalester

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would increasing the driving age to 21 be a solution?

No, the laws we have are fine. We just need more enforcement.

This poor kid was already underage, further increasing the age won’t change that.

brightspark

doolox wrote: »

Would it be possible to restrict learners to quieter roads for a set period in order to build up experience gradually?

I remember restricting myself to quiet, rural areas near my home for a few weeks until I built up enough confidence to drive in more densely trafficked areas.

Whatever people now may think about it, young learner drivers in my days were never checked for their licences and never stopped unless they engaged in some egregiously bad driving, attracting the attention of the often scarce traffic guards..

I think you should look at some historical photos of Irish cities to get an idea of just how few cars were on the road even up until the early 1980s.

When I was in college in the mid 80's I remember being just one of numerous hitch-hikers, young drivers couldn't afford a car, much less drive unaccompanied on a daily basis. Unlike now, households didn't even possess a single car.

Less cars meant less chance of accidents.

Even the recent recession led to a reduction in traffic and a consequential reduction in accidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year

Isambard

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would increasing the driving age to 21 be a solution?

I can't see how that would stop an underage unlicensed driver

Dravokivich

goat2 wrote: »

watching the news today
There is one teenager killed and 3 injured in a car crash, the driver was 16 yr old and he is dead.
I thought a person cannot apply for a driver licence until they turn 17,

The only thing physically stopping anyone is the starter. Once ignition has been achieved. Away they go.

Dakota Dan

A radio station Facebook page in cork has lots of posters baffled as to how a full licenced driver could prevent an accident. A few posters explained it to them that the full licenced driver can tell them to slow down keep in the right position on the road, brake In time etc. yet they still don’t get it.

Isambard

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A radio station Facebook page in cork has lots of posters baffled as to how a full licenced driver could prevent an accident. A few posters explained it to them that the full licenced driver can tell them to slow down keep in the right position on the road, brake In time etc. yet they still don’t get it.

they don't want to get it, they want to keep driving unaccompanied.

Eggs For Dinner

Isambard wrote: »

they don't want to get it, they want to keep driving unaccompanied.

Entitled generation

emilymemily

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Entitled generation

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

pablo128

emilymemily wrote: »

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

When I was 18, my car insurance on a Fiat 127 900cc was 1500 pounds. My wage then was 100 pounds a week. That worked out at nearly 4 months wages. Needless to say I couldn't afford it.

It's probably never been cheaper to get on the road in relation to income now.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

emilymemily wrote: »

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

I’m of a similar age to you, it cost me a bomb as well to get on the road, I worked for it, didn’t go on social media complaining (98FM/Liveline, I’m from Dublin originally) either, I just got on with it and had to abide by the rules of the road, I’ve got all the driving licences, had to do IBT last year for bikes, didn’t want to do it but again part and parcel of it, have to do driver CPC every year for the rest of my professional driving career, a waste of time and money, but again I have to do it.

What went on back in the day was back then, this is 2019.

I just applied for my test, got practice with my instructors, passed and off I went, job done.

While your situation is no doubt difficult from what you say these rules are brought in for good reason.

Some will agree with them others will disagree, we must live and learn.

tabby aspreme

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

ayux4rj6zql2ph

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

Setting up checkpoints outside schools at finishing time?

fritzelly

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

Setting up checkpoints outside schools at finishing time?

Taking candy from a baby

When I did my test many moons ago I opted for an intensive course, 3-5 lessons a week for a month. Came to the test, nervous as hell, instructor says take the next right mid way thru the test - so the next left was a little lane way into a graveyard. Thought strange but what do I know, enough to be thinking about.
Thought I had failed because of that but passed first time

No excuse for anyone to be driving alone without a full licence, for some people no amount of lessons will ever sink in that they are an unsafe driver.
Drivers licence is a privelege bestowed upon those who have demonstrated the capability to hold it, not an entitlement

bpmurray

What I find weird about this is that people are complaining about the injustice of it all. I can't think of a country on the planet that allows people who have not passed their test to drive with no trainer/minder. Now that Ireland has joined that group, apparently it's a matter of human rights. What about the people who live in Northern Norway or Sweden, 100km or more from the nearest town? Of course they are not allowed to drive unless they are accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.

I took my driving test while I was living in Denmark and I can assure you that it was in no way easier than here. The theory test was a lot more difficult (I was asked how to measure the wear on a rack & pinion steering), and the driving test was thorough. There was no chance to drive without an instructor, which is exactly why the failure rate is so much lower than here. If you can only drive with someone who constantly and consistently corrects your errors, you'll actually learn to drive.

This whole idea of learning to drive by being let loose on the roads is crazy. Worse, people who have failed the test, i.e. who can guarantee that they cannot drive safely, they too want to be allowed to drive around with no limits. Are they really that stupid?

Dakota Dan

emilymemily wrote: »

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

This is exactly the same mentality as on Facebook, us versus them, it’s not fair.

Marcusm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

fritzelly

Marcusm wrote: »

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

Could have been stopping them leaving the car park...

pablo128

fritzelly wrote: »

Could have been stopping them leaving the car park...

No use doing that. Sure they would catch the first 2 or 3 and the rest would just park up and walk away.

Henry Ford III

Marcusm wrote: »

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

Install ANPR?