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Who is at fault?

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245

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    #32
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Exit number no longer has any bearing on the lane to be in.
    Correct lane is determined based on the exits relative position to a clock face.

    Even the clockface thing says 'If taking any exit from the 6 o’clock to the 12 o’clock position, motorists should generally approach in the left-hand lane.'

    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

    OP here was taking an exit at 12 o'clock, according to the diagram he's drawn.


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    #33
    StereoSound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    Here is the roundabout, compared it to my original image earlier.


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    #34
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭circadian


    No markings according to streetview but if I were you I'd have been in the left lane also to take the Glenamuck road. However, the other driver was completely in the wrong in being in the left lane to take the exit after that.


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    #35
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Its an unusual roundabout alright
    We really could do with a lot more signs like this for roundabouts like that.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSy-3Lltbg11M0fkIrga3O-Mk8q4rXl1d6Njoq4YkjPxBRMfl5Y


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    #36
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Red is 100% correct positionally, irrespective, and here's why:

    Two-lanes-on, two-lanes off exist to increase volume of traffic through the roundabout and to keep the feeder roads moving.

    In particular the traffic coming from the exit to OP's left -B - can enter the roundabout and take the first left without either flow being impeded, and traffic in two streams is therefore kept moving all the time.

    To go from the Red line, into the L.H. is comletely wrong, impedes the blue line (going correctly straight ahead) and also impedes traffic exiting from that first exit.

    You enter the Red, exit the Red and then once away from the roundabout, the L.H. being clear, you make a formal lane change into it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #37
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    Have to say I was expecting a Streetview image myself, not a satellite photo. I've attached an image here of what I think is the same spot. Is this it?

    Either way, worth noting that the first road ('A') allows for entry onto the roundabout only, and NOT for exit off it.


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    #38
    StereoSound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    Duffryman wrote: »
    Have to say I was expecting a Streetview image myself, not a satellite photo. I've attached an image here of what I think is the same spot. Is this it?

    Either way, worth noting that the first road ('A') allows for entry onto the roundabout only, and NOT for exit off it.

    It's the same roundabout yes, further up at the next exit. I cannot seem to get a street view image of the exact exit from my phone though.


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    #39
    StereoSound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    Ok here we go, here is the exact spot where I made my exit. Me Red, Other driver blue. Is my exit right or wrong ?


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    #40
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭circadian


    StereoSound wrote: »
    Ok here we go, here is the exact spot where I made my exit. Me Red, Other driver blue. Is my exit right or wrong ?

    You're fine if you ask me, blue is supposed to only take that exit for this very reason.


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    #41
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Duffryman wrote: »
    Even the clockface thing says 'If taking any exit from the 6 o’clock to the 12 o’clock position, motorists should generally approach in the left-hand lane.'

    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

    OP here was taking an exit at 12 o'clock, according to the diagram he's drawn.

    Yep, generally unless a situation like tje OP where two exit lanes or signsge.


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    #42
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    Again, I'd say tough to tell for sure without seeing the road markings on the approach to that roundabout. But since there are two lanes on the exit you wanted to take, you'd generally be okay to be in the right-hand lane on the approach.

    Incidentally, my earlier question about where exactly you started to indicate is now moot, as we've since established that the first road (which you marked 'A') can't be used as an exit anyway.

    All agree that the other driver was in the wrong lane, if he/she intended to take the next exit, rather than continue straight through like you wanted to do yourself.

    Only thing that remains is that technical point that somebody else raised, about how it could be viewed that you went to cut across another person's lane when it wasn't safe to do so, notwithstanding the fact that the other person was in the wrong lane in the first place. I'd speculate though that if a collision had occurred, and it came down to insurance companies or a civil court to rule on it, the verdict would be that the other driver was mostly at fault. It would just have to be established to what degree. Could be 60-40, could be 90-10.


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    #43
    Sono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,377 ✭✭✭Sono


    StereoSound wrote: »
    Ok here we go, here is the exact spot where I made my exit. Me Red, Other driver blue. Is my exit right or wrong ?

    You are both wrong, the person in the left lane could be coming from 9 o’clock and is perfectly entitled to drive past that exit in that lane if they are.


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    #44
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    Maybe you might take a look at the picture attached to the very 1st post.

    Both Cars entered from the same road.
    The driver in the L/H lane than proceeded to go to at least the 3 o'clock exit....this is totally at odds with the Rules of the Road.


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    #45
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    Sono wrote: »
    You are both wrong, the person in the left lane could be coming from 9 o’clock and is perfectly entitled to drive past that exit in that lane if they are.


    This too is a good point, which hadn't occurred to me. May well be the case that OP should have been in the left lane on the approach after all, for that very reason. Again, being able to see the road markings on the approach would help hugely.


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    #46
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Looks like you crossed a broken lane marking to exit, in general on any road you give way to people already in their lane. A roundabout doesn't change that IMO. This is made worse by them not following the normal convention.

    Imagine they had entered the roundabout from 9 o'clock. You would be in the exact same positions but they would much more clearly be in the right.


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    #47
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If they entered from the same road as you - that is the road coming from Leopardstown - then the lanes are clearly marked and he cannot take the 3 o'clock exit from that lane.

    But as you were behind him, it would probably be 50:50 due to your general obligation to give way and not assume the actions of other traffic.


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    #48
    rpmcs
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    I have simple rule in my head with two lanes into round about.
    Left lane... straight on or left only(1st exit)
    Right lane straight on or right only(any exits past the straight on exit)
    But as many have said it would be hard to get insurance company to admit this in my opinion.


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    #49
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    I've been back to Google Maps and Streetview, and seems to be the case that the pic I posted is of the approach road that OP and other motorist took, and the pic he posted is of the exit that he intended to take.

    I've gone back a bit along that approach road, and it turns out there are no road markings to indicate which lane to take on the roundabout. Not exactly helpful.

    At least, there were no markings when the Google Streetview car did its thing. I suppose they might have been added in the meantime, but that's no use to us here.


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    #50
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Ireland... A country where establishing who's at fault at simple roundabout takes hours of debating...


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    #51
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    StereoSound wrote: »
    Ok here we go, here is the exact spot where I made my exit. Me Red, Other driver blue. Is my exit right or wrong ?

    Do you cross dashed line? If yes, yield to those that don't cross it. Simples.


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    #52
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Red is 100% correct positionally, irrespective, and here's why:

    Two-lanes-on, two-lanes off exist to increase volume of traffic through the roundabout and to keep the feeder roads moving.

    If the designer of said RB was so concerned about throughtput, they would designed the exit in the following way, with the lane markings guiding the motorist out of the roundabout:

    473062.png

    This would leave no room for interpretation - blue would be at fault without any doubt. Instead the lazy approach was chosed, in hope that "the drivers will deal with that between themselves". Such dual-lane rb are no better than single lane really.


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    #53
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    As pointed out already you are both in the wrong lanes for the direction you wanted to go. I'd say it would be 50/50.


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    #54
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    It's always a nervy feeling going right using the left hand lane here

    https://goo.gl/maps/K44ZTPAu8w62


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    #55
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    i think
    1/ never do more than a semi circle in the left lane
    2/ always look left before taking the turn in the right hand lane
    3/ if you are lost and have to go around again leave a left indicator on to hilight and signal to others that you f**ked it up .

    will do well to keep you safe on any RB


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    #56
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    It's funny how many people are saying OP is wrong for going straight in the right lane.


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    #57
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    It's funny how many people are saying OP is wrong for going straight in the right lane.

    funny isnt the word I would use.
    Tragic more like.


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    #58
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    It's funny how many people are saying OP is wrong for going straight in the right lane.

    He's not going straight - you cannot go straight at the roundabout, you can only exit to the left.

    OP is entering left RB lane without checking if that's safe.


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    #59
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    grogi wrote: »
    He's not going straight - you cannot go straight at the roundabout, you can only exit to the right.

    OP is entering left RB lane without checking if that's safe.

    YOu can exit into the race course, which is before 12 O'clock.

    Why is it not safe?
    Because there is a lunatic driving there disobeying both the rules of the road and the signage at the roundabout.

    Unless signposted otherwise, left lane is for up to 12 O'clock only.


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    #60
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    GreeBo wrote: »
    YOu can exit into the race course, which is before 12 O'clock.

    Why is it not safe?
    Because there is a lunatic driving there disobeying both the rules of the road and the signage at the roundabout.

    Unless signposted otherwise, left lane is for up to 12 O'clock only.

    What if it is 12:05 ?!


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    #61
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    GreeBo wrote: »
    YOu can exit into the race course, which is before 12 O'clock.

    Why is it not safe?
    Because there is a lunatic driving there disobeying both the rules of the road and the signage at the roundabout.

    Unless signposted otherwise, left lane is for up to 12 O'clock only.
    It's not safe to enter another lane while there's someone else in it. Whether they should be there or not has no bearing on the safety and should not guide your actions.


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