To leave him, or not, please help

LegacyUser

I wish commenters here would read my first message. I said he has been verbally and emotionally abusive but not violent. This has been overlooked - likely it is my own fault here as I didn't give the best example with the cinema issue.
No, there are plenty of ways home, he was not anxious about making a bus on time to make it home. It was an early evening event and he didn't want to watch all of the film, he was disregarding that fact that I wanted to stay to the end. He literally had the transport app out in the middle of the darkened row to ask me which bus we would be taking - there were so many ways to get home and so many hours to do so. Commenters should take an OP here at face value.

I am not at all controlling, this is crazy. It is the opposite. He has tried to control me, and control what we do, this film is a tiny and I said in my first post, a minor example of it.
His controlling behaviour went on for about two years until I got on top of it, kind of, and saw it for what it was. He even sabotaged a part time evening job I had in a bar to get savings up as he didnt want me working in a bar. I had to quit as a colleague realized he was with me when he called me by my name after 7 pints he had ordered from the other bartenders!

There are so many other examples. I came here looking for advice with the understood pretext that it would not be turned against me. Commenters here have misread my posts and then joined in together.

As for why I helped him in the mornings, I have explained, he is tired, he is slow to get his stuff in order, and he was fired from his internship a couple of years ago for coming and going as he liked. His reference refers to his "flexibility" which is code for his bad timekeeping.
The other reason is that he would barrage me with messages telling me it was my fault for not reminding him to bring his work badge, or his wallet, and so on, as he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own mistakes.

Please for goodness sake ask more questions if you want to understand better rather than having a go at someone who has already gone through the runner.

tea and coffee

I think some people are being a bit harsh on the OP.
She says he is angry and abusive towards her. That he can be charming when he wants to others/ wants something.
They both seem codependent tbh.
Either way, it sounds unhealthy for both.

osarusan

OP, it seems like the only way this relationship will survive is if he actually changes in the various ways you want him to change.

So ask yourself if things are going to be any better in X number of weeks/months/years than they are now.

It doesn't sound like it to me.

Big Bag of Chips

OK, the question is did you ever love HIM? The person he actually is, rather than the picture you had in your head of the person you wanted him to become?

People are offering you advice, you just don't necessarily agree with it. That's fine. But if you post in a public forum you are likely to hear things you don't agree with.

If he's abusive, obnoxious, controlling, lazy etc why are you giving it another month? Do you think all that is going to change, and remain changed, in the space of a month? I think you probably do need to walk away from this. But you do also need to look at your ownbehavior and why you ended up in a marriage with a man who is everything you don't want him to be.

splinter65

Judge Judy says that every girl needs to know that when you are going out as girlfriend and boyfriend before you marry, that that is as good as it’s ever going to get. No man ever changed for the better once he got married.

sbsquarepants

shadaladyada wrote: »

I am not at all controlling, this is crazy. It is the opposite. He has tried to control me, and control what we do, this film is a tiny and I said in my first post, a minor example of it.
His controlling behaviour went on for about two years until I got on top of it, kind of, and saw it for what it was. He even sabotaged a part time evening job I had in a bar to get savings up as he didnt want me working in a bar. I had to quit as a colleague realized he was with me when he called me by my name after 7 pints he had ordered from the other bartenders!.

He came to your job and you pretended to not know each other?
That's just weird!

You left once people found out you knew him? That's even weirder.

Why did you not just tell him not to come there anymore if it made you feel awkward?

shadaladyada wrote: »

The other reason is that he would barrage me with messages telling me it was my fault for not reminding him to bring his work badge, or his wallet, and so on, as he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own mistakes..

Text him back - "you're an adult. I got myself to work without needing your help, you should be quite capable of doing the same"

shadaladyada wrote: »

Please for goodness sake ask more questions if you want to understand better rather than having a go at someone who has already gone through the runner.

I personally think you have it in your head that this guy can't cope without you, you need to do everything for him and you resent him for that.
The way out is to stop doing those things - if he's late, let him be late and face the consequences. If he forgets his work badge let him forget it and deal with the consequences himself.

You aren't his mother, stop acting like you are! It will be good for both of you.

In my own relationship I've had similar kind of things - my missus if left to her own devices would try to control the weather. For my part, I will not be controlled. We don't row about it anymore, but we used to you quite a bit - I was just very blunt about it - I will not live by your schedule, stop expecting me to. I appreciate your help with various things, but I don't expect it and I haven't asked for it, so if you resent doing it - stop, plain and simple.

Worked for us.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OK, the question is did you ever love HIM? The person he actually is, rather than the picture you had in your head of the person you wanted him to become?

Of course! Why do you think I allowed the controlling and name calling and emotional abuse to go for as long as it did?

LegacyUser

Hi OP.
An alternative perspective is to try not feel disappointed with your OH or with yourself for how it hasn't worked out, but have a frame of mind where it's - Listen, sure we gave it a chance, I'm not enjoying this life any more & therefore I'm going to head off and do my own thing.

I think you need to cut loose & live for yourself. You can frame as a break (if he's on board with that) or just a complete end.

Without judging either of your behaviour it's clear you're not happy & your post to me is a fry for freedom!

FWIW lots of ppl experience relationships that in hindsight they should have ended earlier. But we only live once & we learn from experience. Don't beat yourself up for your past decisions.

LegacyUser

sbsquarepants wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote entire post.

Nope, I want him to be independent, as I said, he had problems with things and the natural response was for me, to help. It just went on and on and I didnt rethink it.
Of course I like doing things like making him a tea, and other gestures, I am focusing on the mornings for a reason as they are a blight.
And as I said above, he EXPECTED my help, demanded it, made me feel that I should help him. It came from him first, not from me.

As for the bar, yes I didnt tell anyone I knew him as he was there the first night for moral support. I didnt want anyone to know that on my first night there I felt I needed support.
Again, you jump to conclusions. Why not ask first? As you can see now, there was a very good reason. And I left soon after that as he had humiliated me, was drunk and disorderly outside the bar where my colleague saw him, at the back of the bar later where he was not seen I ended up having to call the cops because he wouldn't stop talking about suicide and wouldn't come home!

PLEASE ASK before you judge and jump to the WRONG conclusions.

Big Bag of Chips

shadaladyada wrote: »

Of course! Why do you think I allowed the controlling and name calling and emotional abuse to go for as long as it did?

That is something that you need to prioritise in your counselling. Rather than focus on how yo change him.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note

OP, people can only advise you based on what you post. If you leave out relevant details you cannot expect posters to fill in the blanks. This is an advice forum where people post advice, and naturally form opinions and base their advice on what the poster has posted.

Please respect the people who are taking time to offer advice to you. If you are not happy with the advice you can clarify or disregard as you see fit.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote entire post.

I am fully respectful of the people here, I don't need to be told to respect others, esp in this context, where as you said, they are replying to my request for help.
It is just that one person above stated it was weird that I didnt tell anyone he was there, etc. There are often good reasons for things that seem 'weird'. I merely addressed that and pointed it out to that person who might learn from that.

sbsquarepants

shadaladyada wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote entire post.

I don't mean to jump to conclusions - but if you leave out huge chunks of the story you can't get annoyed that people take you up wrong. You said you left your job, when people found out you knew him - there was no mention drunken humiliations or cops being called. You said you left because he called you by name!

But seriously, if this is the way he carries on what the hell were you thinking bringing him along "for support"

To be honest this sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship. There's a big difference in making someone a cup of tea and them not being able to get themselves to work without help.

You need to stop "helping" him. It's not helping either him or you. I think you should sit him down and tell him that you are going to be only looking after yourself for a while and that he needs to do the same. If he fúcks up his job, burns his dinner or whatever other calamity befalls him - he will just have to deal with it like a grown up!

For your part - you need to step back and allow him to do just that.

Maybe I'm projecting somewhat from my own past, and If I am I apologise, but I don't think you're as faultless as you seem to think you are. At the very least, you're enabling this bullshít.

The truth is uncomfortable sometimes - take a step back and let him be an adult - warts and all!

wiggle16

Hi again OP

You have to remember that people are posting based upon what you have written. If people say you are controlling and he sounds dependent rather than abusive, they aren't getting that from nowhere. Its based on what you've written.

I did think when I first responded to you that your part in this did sound like you were a bit smothering, but I took it at face value that when you said he was emotionally and verbally abusive that this was the case, and so myself I didn't see the point in bringing up how I would feel about your behaviour.

You're saying that there is a lot more to this and that he's abusive. Posters, as noted, are only going to go on what you've written, and what you've described (cinema, turning up at the bar, bus etc) sounds like bad behaviour and dependency rather than emotional abuse. That's what posters are basing their answers on. They are comparing your behaviours to determine where the fault/problem lies and therefore how to advise you.

You don't have to give any more information of course, but if you say you are being verbally/emotionally abused, but dont give examples of that and the examples you do give sound like an unhealthy parental relationship rather than an abusive marital one, you are going to get answers accordingly. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

I dont think it changes much with regards whether you should leave though so I'm not revising my advice either. You are not happy, you're not in love with him anymore and you possibly made a mistake getting married. If there is abuse there, that's all the more reason to go. If not, as others have said, give it a month if you want, but the dynamic needs to change completely if that's to work.

Once again, good luck OP.

Big Bag of Chips

The fact is that you continually expect him to be a different person, and he continually lets you down by just being him.

Whose idea was it for him to go along as moral support on the night you worked in the bar? It sounds like you wanted him there. But how much moral support was he going to be if you ignored each other, and he was there getting progressively more drunk for the entirety of your shift?

The cinema example, was it a film he would ordinarily be interested in? There are things I like, there are things my husband likes, and then there are things we both like. I don't bring him along to things he hasn't much interest in, because I know he won't be interested and I won't enjoy it!

I'll agree with you that he sounds fairly useless. But I think you also put him in situations to test him. Situations that you suspect he's very likely to 'fail' in, and then you can somehow feel more validated for feeling the way you do about him.

You two are in no way compatible. Another month isn't going to change that.

splinter65

shadaladyada wrote: »

Of course! Why do you think I allowed the controlling and name calling and emotional abuse to go for as long as it did?

Ok this is definitely a problem that you need to address. Being in love, or just loving someone, doesn’t mean that you automatically are rendered with such low self worth, such bad self esteem, that you allow yourself to be abused.
Move on from this guy, but you need to get self confidence and self esteem and dignity before you get involved with someone else, or you will just find yourself attracted to the same type of guy again and again.

Porklife

You both sound miserable, you're unhappy with him but I doubt it's a day at the races for him with you either.
The bar situation is just bizarre. Why did you need support to pull a pint and what kind of support can a drunk guy pretending not to know you be?! He was talking about suicide and you seem to have just glossed over that. Very odd altogether. Was he there to make sure no punters hit on you, did you ask him to be there? Very needy and weird either way.
Should you leave? Well obviously yes!

LegacyUser

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't mean to jump to conclusions - but if you leave out huge chunks of the story you can't get annoyed that people take you up wrong. You said you left your job, when people found out you knew him - there was no mention drunken humiliations or cops being called. You said you left because he called you by name!

But seriously, if this is the way he carries on what the hell were you thinking bringing him along "for support"

To be honest this sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship. There's a big difference in making someone a cup of tea and them not being able to get themselves to work without help.

You need to stop "helping" him. It's not helping either him or you. I think you should sit him down and tell him that you are going to be only looking after yourself for a while and that he needs to do the same. If he fúcks up his job, burns his dinner or whatever other calamity befalls him - he will just have to deal with it like a grown up!

For your part - you need to step back and allow him to do just that.

Maybe I'm projecting somewhat from my own past, and If I am I apologise, but I don't think you're as faultless as you seem to think you are. At the very least, you're enabling this bullshít.

The truth is uncomfortable sometimes - take a step back and let him be an adult - warts and all!

Thank you, this is all really solid advice and am going to address my role in this, and as you said I have enabled it, even if I wasn't aware I was. He was autonomous this morning, at least, and he agrees he should be assessed for Aspergers and as he does have dyslexia also he will ask about doing a full assessment.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

The fact is that you continually expect him to be a different person, and he continually lets you down by just being him.

Whose idea was it for him to go along as moral support on the night you worked in the bar? It sounds like you wanted him there. But how much moral support was he going to be if you ignored each other, and he was there getting progressively more drunk for the entirety of your shift?

The cinema example, was it a film he would ordinarily be interested in? There are things I like, there are things my husband likes, and then there are things we both like. I don't bring him along to things he hasn't much interest in, because I know he won't be interested and I won't enjoy it!

I'll agree with you that he sounds fairly useless. But I think you also put him in situations to test him. Situations that you suspect he's very likely to 'fail' in, and then you can somehow feel more validated for feeling the way you do about him.

You two are in no way compatible. Another month isn't going to change that.

No, there is no putting him into situations to test him, I told him he didn't have to come to the film but he insisted on going. So it was entirely his own doing. Why would I want to test him?

I asked him I think to go for moral support which was naive of me, but this was years ago, and it was back when I was more naive about all of this. Also I could never have anticipated his response, the 7 pints, getting difficult, etc. It is extreme and in no way could someone anticipate that. At the time he had heard his mother had a tumour - it was nothing to be worried about the doctors had said, but he used it to add to his self pity.

I absolutely would never invite someone to something if they are not interested in it. This movie night was part of a bigger and longer event that I am interested in; he insisted on going.
But I am going to address that with him, now that you phrased it this way, and ask him why did he insist on going if he wasn't interested.

Also I never said he is useless, or fairly useless. That isn't the problem at all.

ncmc

In all the posts you have posted here, you have not mentioned ONE single positive thing about him. Not one. The closest you came to it was saying he could be charming, but even that was a caveat that he used it to be manipulative and get what he wants. Oh sorry, you did say one thing, that he is a good cook :rolleyes: So aside from the verbal and emotional abuse, the dependancy, the jealousy and all the other mad stuff, if you can't say one single nice thing about your partner, then yes, it's time to leave. And giving things another month isn't going to change anything.


Just on the part about helping him get ready in the morning. Could this possibly be a symptom of his depression? My husband has what he calls 'Walter Mitty' syndrome where he is constantly losing stuff, keys, wallet, coat etc. Not just the odd time, we all do that, I mean at least once a fortnight, he will lose something to the degree that it could be missing for a day or more and we have to turn the house upside down looking for it. I have tried to get him to leave his stuff in the same place every time, but it's like his brain isn't wired that way. I genuinely believe it is a symptom of his depression, that he can't just focus on things and concentrate. Now of course this is nothing like on your husbands level, but it could be a symptom of his overall depression, but to be honest, I agree with the previous posters, it sounds more like he is on the spectrum.

splinter65

ncmc wrote: »

In all the posts you have posted here, you have not mentioned ONE single positive thing about him. Not one. The closest you came to it was saying he could be charming, but even that was a caveat that he used it to be manipulative and get what he wants. Oh sorry, you did say one thing, that he is a good cook :rolleyes: So aside from the verbal and emotional abuse, the dependancy, the jealousy and all the other mad stuff, if you can't say one single nice thing about your partner, then yes, it's time to leave. And giving things another month isn't going to change anything.


Just on the part about helping him get ready in the morning. Could this possibly be a symptom of his depression? My husband has what he calls 'Walter Mitty' syndrome where he is constantly losing stuff, keys, wallet, coat etc. Not just the odd time, we all do that, I mean at least once a fortnight, he will lose something to the degree that it could be missing for a day or more and we have to turn the house upside down looking for it. I have tried to get him to leave his stuff in the same place every time, but it's like his brain isn't wired that way. I genuinely believe it is a symptom of his depression, that he can't just focus on things and concentrate. Now of course this is nothing like on your husbands level, but it could be a symptom of his overall depression, but to be honest, I agree with the previous posters, it sounds more like he is on the spectrum.

Walter Mittyitis as I call it is more imagining that you are a far more important respected member of society then you actually are, almost a totally different persona to the person you actually are. It can involve exaggerating or even fabricating minor incidents that you were involved in to the point where you were the chief instigator, or you saved the day entirely, whereas in reality you were only an observer.
“ I spotted flames coming from the kitchen window and I kicked in the door and pulled the woman out and laid her down and gave her the kiss of life”.
When all you actually did was dial 999.
It’s irritating to be around and can be embarrassing for family members when they realise that people are laughing at your loved one.
You will find them in every voluntary organization in the country from the St V de Paul in Ballina to Ballygobackwards GAA Club, telling everyone else what to do and reminding everyone how good they are at everything themselves.

ElizaBennett

I think all of the discussion around the details is moot here as you are unhappy. We have divorce in Ireland. You don't have kids to complicate that process so just leave him and get a divorce and move on to have a happy life either on your own or with a new guy. He might well do the same.

He sounds a lot like my son in many ways (minus the verbal abuse and controlling stuff etc.) My son is in college and has had anxiety and depression since the age of 16. He cannot wake himself up in the mornings and often sleeps for 24 hours if he's home alone or away in college accommodation without me there to help him. I have tried tough love and leaving him asleep and letting him miss college and appointments and meetings but the GP told me to stop that and help him instead as he needs me and he needs the help. But he is my child and always will be so I will do what I can for him and won't resent it (mostly!) He could also quite possibly be on the spectrum as he has many issues and also some OCD problems and agoraphobia that flares up at times. I'm getting a lot of echoes of this in your posts OP BUT having issues and mental problems doens't change the fact that you're not in love any more and you need to leave. Just do it, calmly and quietly and no need for slanging matches. It's just over. Best of luck

leggo

OP what do you want to hear? That you’re right and you’re a victim and he’s an awful man? I know you feel like you need support...but what good does that do you? You’re not right in thinking that you can change him, or that you’ve any right to try change anyone (even with the dramatic stuff you didn’t mention). This relationship is still codependent and unhealthy. And staying in it and being a victim, trying to change him, will still lead to your unhappiness.

Don’t be a victim. You can do something about this. And since changing someone isn’t an option ever, your option is to tell him you are leaving if the abusive behaviour stops then following through with it if/when it doesn’t. Or just leave now and save the arguments, because trying to change him hasn’t gotten you any more happy so far.

Idle Passerby

When asked if you love your husband your responce sounded alarm bells for me

shadaladyada wrote: »

Of course! Why do you think I allowed the controlling and name calling and emotional abuse to go for as long as it did?

Love isnt allowing someone to control, verbally and emotionally abuse you. Thats being a doormat and/or a martyr.

It was immature and naive to jump into a legally binding commitment to someone you wernt totally happy with in the hopes of changing them. On the plus side you're still young and dont have children. So I say leave and start fresh with someone you can actually have an adult partnership with.

You both sound unhappy and irritated by the whole situation so why not call it a day rather than martyring yourself further by slogging it out. Life is far too short.

SirChenjin

It's not a good or happy relationship for either of you, by the sound of it. I honestly think you would be better off separated.

tara73

woa, I'm quite shocked about the responses here and how things, for me, got twisted around, labelling you the controlling one, making the main subject about you wanting to change him. yes, this might be a flaw in your character or in this relationship, but it's not the main subject.

the main thing is that you have a horrible husband by your side. I'm not completely sure whether it was in your thread here, but didn't you mentioned he's hating black people and also women kind of in general? that's unbearable and a waste of time to analyse this individual or even defend him. all the things, also the 'small' ones (which are no small ones), show me his nervwrecking manipulative character. I have some experience with people like this in my closest family, so that's probably why I can relate to you a lot.

I think your only 'mistake' if we want to call it like that is yes, you fell in love with this man and already stayed way too long with him.

so my only advice would be to get rid as soon as possible and don't let yourself be dragged down by some, from my point of view, horrible posts here, trying to blame you.

leggo

What people need to remember is that we can’t advise the husband on what he should do because he’s not here. So slating him actually doesn’t help anyone, and in codependent situations they rely on one subject thinking the other is broken and needing to fix them rather than looking at their own responsibility for the situation (ie they committed to it while knowing it was broken). That rejection of responsibility is what keeps them there. Accepting it, and their power to change their own fate, is what can actually move their life to a better place.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't think any of the posts here have been horrible to you OP. But as leggo mentions, we can't advise on what your husband should be doing, because that's not going to make him do it. Nor should everyone here just sit back and tell you he's the worst person in the world and you're dead right.

You are right in thinking you need to leave. I think that has been the general consensus. But people are right to point out where you have fundamentally gone wrong. Maybe in the hope that you will avoid a similar situation in future.

You are the one posting. You are the one people are advising. We can only advise you. If he posted looking for advice, he would get advice based on what he posted. And it is very likely he'd also hear a few things he'd rather not.

Bigmac1euro

Op you sound like my ex.
It was the worst time in my whole life. Since we split years ago I found a woman I truly love and I have been doing better than ever at life in general.
She spent the whole relationship trying to change me. It was actually weird,I think she had mental issues looking back now.

We were not compatible in the slightest. It was absolute insanity come to think of it.
I ended up jumping on a plane and leaving her this exact day 5 years ago.

LegacyUser

Thanks, everyone, for your contributions. Some have hit the nail on the head, others made me question what I thought and realized it isn't the way commenters thought it was. So it has all helped. I also saw the psychologist yesterday and having asked here first, I had some fresh thinking and questions. I truly appreciate the straight talking, kindness, and advice from you. Of course one or two posters didnt interpret the situation closely enough to make an insight that would add some weight and help but I take responsibility for that as I could only convey a certain amount in my first post without making it too long and after that it is hard to clear up the fuzz.

First of all, he agrees it would be a really good idea for him to be assessed for being on the spectrum.And my psychologist said it needs to be him who follows up on this, and not me doing it for him, which he is going to do he said.

He has fended for himself for two mornings now and today he said he realized, that he has genuine issues organising himself in the morning. So all of the offloading he put on me, and I undertook to help him, deflected from him facing this, and I didnt think of the possibility he was on the spectrum, but coupled with other things about him, it makes sense. So we can get this issue sorted and separate it from the rest of his behaviour.

He has also listened to my concerns about his cuttingness, his mean remarks, and on how I need him to respect that there are things I will want to do, movies I want to see, and if he doesn't like those things, he has to choose between not taking part, and if he does, being respectful. He agrees that this is the right way forward. He said he wanted to go as he values our free time together and wanted to be with me, about the bus thing, he said he didnt think I would be bothered that he asked me and he said it wasn't done to provoke me.
As I said earlier I never test him, I live my life normally, and dont set out to test his reactions. And because of that, this could happen again in 6 months when he disagrees with an event, and it would rise up again, so it is important to sort it.

New posters still continue to stress that I am controlling. Again, it is a complete misreading. Maybe you are projecting too much of your own experience and using it as affirmation for your own decisions to leave your partner, as is the case for a recent poster at least.

My personality isn't controlling at all, it is just that I am a carer type, coupled with a type of person who works, gets on with things, likes efficiency. It doesn't veer into controlling behaviour and my husband would be the first person to tell you that. I have merely stepped in to help him in getting up, but also, job applications, helping him get his leaving certificate - stuff he couldn't work up the courage to do. He has helped me also but less so as I needed less help and never asked or expected any.

To also address what some people said about me not mentioning any good points about him and clearly not being in love with him, etc.
I do still love him but there was a logical side to me that became alert and that side questioned if I should be in this situation and if I should begin to fall out of love with him and find someone that doesn't demand or feel entitled to so much help and do as much for me, that kind of thing. I am aware I help others more than myself, always did, friends, etc. as I have a resilient and caring character. It is hard to explain but I take knocks and get back up again.
But since being with my husband I have neglected myself and dont spend enough time on my hobbies, what I like doing, and that is why the cinema thing got to me so much.

Incidentally the psychologist didn't find that incident to be so serious but did say he should show me respect and read my feelings and react when I am upset. As he doesn't do that.
I mentioned these problems and bad qualities of his as these are the problems I need to face. He has tons of good qualities which is why I love him and fell in love with him. I do not need to list them even now to prove or show that as when I came here to ask for help, I was so focused on the problem and on explaining it. It was too hard to think of all possible contexts to cover as I had crashed.

So now there seems to be a breakthrough with him. He understands I cannot take the old routine and he understands it is not good for him also. He understands I have been broken by it all, by carrying the load of our everyday tasks, and all else. He admits he contributed to that, he says that himself, and of course I am responsible for not facing it sooner and for enabling his neediness.

We are not codependent either. He doesn't do anything to fix me nor do I live in a victim mode of needing help. The psych was quick to say that isn't the case when I raised that as a possibility after it was mentioned here.