How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

GreeBo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you will actually find that these 'laws of economics' are not laws at all, but made up by humans, this is where the fundamentals of neoclassical economics collapse, i.e. the construct of supply and demand etc.

They are not "made up by humans" anymore than the law of gravity was made up by humans.

They are observable facts in a normally functioning economy.
Communism tried to break these laws and I think we all know how that worked out.

Everyone is not equal in an economy, it sucks, but thats life.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

............the fundamentals of neoclassical economics collapse, i.e. the construct of supply and demand etc.

Currently, low supply and high demand.......... high prices.
seems logical.
Feck loads of social housing in dublin CC though, inhabited.

Ush1

pwurple wrote: »

Anything to be said for a bit of High Rise?

The dubs catching up with Cork there on that yet?

I'm not against it but depending on where it is almost always has planning issues, NIMBYism, very expensive and difficult to construct compared to houses, etc...

GreeBo

Pussyhands wrote: »

One thing to note this housing situation will be sorted one way or the other. It's just not sustainable the way it is.

The current prices are due to a shortage. One day the shortage will be ended either through building or through a recession.

The prices are not as a result of quality of houses or location, it's shortage. When the shortage eventually goes, prices will have to come down as demand for rent drops and thus yields drop and thus house prices drop.

I'm actually in a position where I have a sizable chunk of money but I'm holding off currently on buying.

These things can turn around quickly. Just keep saving as much as you can for the opportunity.

I think that thinking is flawed if people, as on this thread, continue to only want to live in nicer areas of Dublin.

Take Rathfarnham as a random example.
Where exactly do you think construction of new houses can happen?
Its chock-a-block full of estates already.

Any new development is around the M50 or even beyond it, but the people on this thread dont want to live out there, they want to live in a house in the city centre on 40 odd grand a year.

Prices are not dependent on quality, its location, as it always was and always will be. There is a premium on top for quality, but location trumps all as its the one thing you cannot change.

We can discuss this back and forth all day but the conclusion seems to be that people on lower salaries and even people on the average salary and above are been forced out into the greater Dublin area due to the rising costs.

8 hour days and 3 hours commuting is the new reality.

lainey_d_123

GreeBo wrote: »

What policies are those exactly?

Allowing buy to let landlords, people owning multiple properties, no rent controls....I mean, seriously? You're asking this question?

Pussyhands

GreeBo wrote: »

I think that thinking is flawed if people, as on this thread, continue to only want to live in nicer areas of Dublin.

Take Rathfarnham as a random example.
Where exactly do you think construction of new houses can happen?
Its chock-a-block full of estates already.

Any new development is around the M50 or even beyond it, but the people on this thread dont want to live out there, they want to live in a house in the city centre on 40 odd grand a year.

Prices are not dependent on quality, its location, as it always was and always will be. There is a premium on top for quality, but location trumps all as its the one thing you cannot change.

The population of Dublin is not just Irish people wanting to buy mortgages.

If a recession comes then that means all the easy cleaning, waitressing, barstaff jobs go which means the number of foreign students coming here drops.

It means foreign workers may go back to their own country/another country if there's no jobs here for them.

When I walk around Dublin city, majority of people I see are foreign.

lainey_d_123

Cyrus wrote: »

Lets start to face facts here.

The reality is, due to changes in society for the better, most family units now have two earners at least up until the age of 35-40. That means that most people buying (houses at least) are buying them off the strength of dual incomes. Further to that people tend to couple up in the same socio economic groupings ( so trainee accountants solicitors etc).

Despite what people want to believe, they are loads of couples under the age of 30 with combined salaries around 150k, so thats what you are up against.

If you are a single person on a low income you cant compete with this. If youa re a single person on a high income you will struggle.

That means some people get pushed further out, but what do you want, to go back to a scenario where women dont go to college and become professionals?

So instead we now have a system where single women can't buy on their own so are forced to partner up. Yeah, real progress there.

Compare that to when single earners could buy homes, so a woman who had chosen not to marry could buy a flat for herself no bother.

:rolleyes:

Wanderer78

GreeBo wrote: »

They are not "made up by humans" anymore than the law of gravity was made up by humans.

They are observable facts in a normally functioning economy.
Communism tried to break these laws and I think we all know how that worked out.

Everyone is not equal in an economy, it sucks, but thats life.

oh ffs, seriously, neoclassical economics is done, the world doesnt work in linearities, hence why the great moderation wasnt all that great for the average person, and we re back to this communism nonsense! theres loads of research going on into this at the moment folks

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

We can discuss this back and forth all day but the conclusion seems to be that people on lower salaries and even people on the average salary and above are been forced out into the greater Dublin area due to the rising costs.

8 hour days and 3 hours commuting is the new reality.

Only if you insist on working in Dublin when you cannot afford to live there.
Its a wonder the rest of the country survives without getting their Dublin fix everyday.

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

Privileged ........ lucky .....I suppose.
Working class background......... working for nearly 20 years. Yup, privileged.

Another one who thinks privileged means coming from a wealthy family.

It doesn't. It means being better off than other people for a variety of reasons.

If you are intelligent enough to work in something like software development, that's luck.

If you're healthy enough to commute to work every day and work a full day, that's luck.

If you came of age in a good job market (not graduating into 2008 recession), that's luck.

If you don't have to care for an ill family member, that's luck.

If you happened to meet a compatible partner for a long term relationship, that's luck.

But sure, you keep telling yourself that every aspect of your life is down to your own hard work and that people who don't have as much as you do are just feckless and lazy.

Ush1

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Allowing buy to let landlords, people owning multiple properties, no rent controls....I mean, seriously? You're asking this question?

What's wrong with buy to let? There is a shortage of rental accommodation as well as properties to purchase.

People owning multiple properties is an issue?? Ah here, you're going down a slippery slope there.

There are some rent controls but ask any posters on this forum about what it's like being a landlord and why most advise to sell up if you can. Also rent controls won't necessarily help you buy a house on less money.

GreeBo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Allowing buy to let landlords, people owning multiple properties, no rent controls....I mean, seriously? You're asking this question?

Ok, and I mean this with the greatest of respect, you need to grow up a bit in your expectations on life.

Whats wrong with landlords? Where do you expect people to rent if there are no landlords?

The sort of properties involved when people own multiple properties are, again with the greatest of respect, probably not the sort of properties you are going to buy buying with ain income of 40 something grand a year.

You prefer no rent controls? In a time of massive demand? And you think thats going to make houses cheaper to buy?!

Pussyhands

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Another one who thinks privileged means coming from a wealthy family.

It doesn't. It means being better off than other people for a variety of reasons.

If you are intelligent enough to work in something like software development, that's luck.

If you're healthy enough to commute to work every day and work a full day, that's luck.

If you came of age in a good job market (not graduating into 2008 recession), that's luck.

If you don't have to care for an ill family member, that's luck.

If you happened to meet a compatible partner for a long term relationship, that's luck.

But sure, you keep telling yourself that every aspect of your life is down to your own hard work and that people who don't have as much as you do are just feckless and lazy.

Ah ffs, if all that is luck then every single one of us in the country is lucky.

If you were born in Ireland and not Iraq, that's luck.

If you have two working hands, that's luck.

If your parents raised you well, that's luck.

baby and crumble

GreeBo wrote: »

Only if you insist on working in Dublin when you cannot afford to live there.
Its a wonder the rest of the country survives without getting their Dublin fix everyday.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO WORK IN DUBLIN.

Or at least in big cities. Jesus, if I could get a job in my sector and not have to pay Dublin prices for everything I'd be delighted. But I can't, the jobs don't exist.

Honestly at this stage you sound like a culchie with a MASSIVE chip on their shoulder. And I say that as a proud culchie living in Dublin. Get over it.

GreeBo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh ffs, seriously, neoclassical economics is done, the world doesnt work in linearities, hence why the great moderation wasnt all that great for the average person, and we re back to this communism nonsense! theres loads of research going on into this at the moment folks

All terribly interesting for the Phd's Im sure, but meanwhile, if demand outstrips supply, prices go up.

You can label it Spongebob Economics if you want, it wont change the reality of it.

GreeBo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Another one who thinks privileged means coming from a wealthy family.

It doesn't. It means being better off than other people for a variety of reasons.

If you are intelligent enough to work in something like software development, that's luck.

If you're healthy enough to commute to work every day and work a full day, that's luck.

If you came of age in a good job market (not graduating into 2008 recession), that's luck.

If you don't have to care for an ill family member, that's luck.

If you happened to meet a compatible partner for a long term relationship, that's luck.

But sure, you keep telling yourself that every aspect of your life is down to your own hard work and that people who don't have as much as you do are just feckless and lazy.

Hard cases make bad laws.

Most people dont suffer from the "bad luck" you describe above.

Give Cuba a go if you think that your lot in life should be unrelated to what you do/achieve in life.

GreeBo

baby and crumble wrote: »

SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO WORK IN DUBLIN.

Or at least in big cities. Jesus, if I could get a job in my sector and not have to pay Dublin prices for everything I'd be delighted. But I can't, the jobs don't exist.

Honestly at this stage you sound like a culchie with a MASSIVE chip on their shoulder. And I say that as a proud culchie living in Dublin. Get over it.

Ok. I think we all owe you a massive apology for forcing you into that career where you can only get a job in Dublin.

This was your decision. Why do you think the rest of us should suffer from your decisions?


/edit

*I* sound like a culchie with a chip on *MY* shoulder??
I'm not on here complaining that I cant afford to live where I want.

Cyrus

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So instead we now have a system where single women can't buy on their own so are forced to partner up. Yeah, real progress there.

Compare that to when single earners could buy homes, so a woman who had chosen not to marry could buy a flat for herself no bother.

:rolleyes:

i would wager that the number of single women who bought in the 80s wasnt very high either for other reasons.

you dont think the widespread university education of women is progress?

baby and crumble

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok. I think we all owe you a massive apology for forcing you into that career where you can only get a job in Dublin.

And the world owes you an apology for turning you in to a sanctimonious prick. We all have problems.

GreeBo

baby and crumble wrote: »

And the world owes you an apology for turning you in to a sanctimonious prick. We all have problems.

Well I think that ends our interactions on here.

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

What's wrong with buy to let? There is a shortage of rental accommodation as well as properties to purchase.

People owning multiple properties is an issue?? Ah here, you're going down a slippery slope there.

As it happens the Swiss elected to limit second home ownership to curb speculation and rapidly increasing property prices. The sky hasn't fallen down.

I'm not necessarily advocating that for Ireland, but they were brave enough to tackle the problem. If one were to propose that here, how long before the C (communism) word would be invoked?

Eric Cartman

This entire thread : it would be nice if they built more houses to ease demand , it would be nice if there was affordable developments for working people near dublin ,

Somehow some posters have mis interpreted that as people looking for discounts in houses or telling people to move down the country or any other manor of unviable options.

GreenBo , do you accept that dublin prices are irrationally high because of constrained supply and that building more houses would lower these prices and make dublin more accessible to the people who need (yes some people need to be) there

Jackmulcahy

Lads this forum is getting so heated. I think we can all agree there's a problem but maybe stop focusing on people's backgrounds and throwing sly digs?

I'm not a poster on boards but I consider myself a boardie due to how much I spend reading forums. Lets try to take the passion down a notch and have some more constructive discussion?

Idbatterim

Cyrus wrote: »

Lets start to face facts here.

The reality is, due to changes in society for the better, most family units now have two earners at least up until the age of 35-40. That means that most people buying (houses at least) are buying them off the strength of dual incomes. Further to that people tend to couple up in the same socio economic groupings ( so trainee accountants solicitors etc).

Despite what people want to believe, they are loads of couples under the age of 30 with combined salaries around 150k, so thats what you are up against.

If you are a single person on a low income you cant compete with this. If youa re a single person on a high income you will struggle.

That means some people get pushed further out, but what do you want, to go back to a scenario where women dont go to college and become professionals?

Good post! BUT, BUT! are you people on here serious about not seeing what the solution is? I simply cannot understand it! There is only a shortage of property and ridiculous cost, due to government decisions...

And us idiots will give up so much, move locations, lifetime **** commute as a result of this accepting "ah shure, thats the way it is" :rolleyes::mad:

GreenBo , do you accept that dublin prices are irrationally high because of constrained supply and that building more houses would lower these prices and make dublin more accessible to the people who need (yes some people need to be) there

I was out near citywest the other day, beside one of the luas stops, what is going up ? low density houses, out on the n11 at foxrock, a site backing onto it and its "high quality qbc" what is going up? low density houses! But yeah, its all ah so complex to fix!

That might be easiest for the developer to get finance for, it might be the most lucrative! I dont care, this is an issue with the planning authorities and not putting down forced minimum densities, as ronan lyons keeps pointing out, its a massive apartment shortage that we have, not a house shortage!!!

Dont question anything though lads, keep you heads down, use your tea bags twice (as one of your cost cutting measures to save), lose over half your salary at the marginal rate (as if you're the wolf of wallstreet) and enjoy the **** commute for hours in your car or on the wonderful third world transport system here that your taxes are paying for. Then arrive all happy and fresh down to the docklands, to work in the shiny glass box. With people living right in the vicinity, who dont work, have probably never worked and living there for nothing, no real need to be there from what I can see! But you keep doing as your doing, probably easier not to question the insanity of it all!

pwurple

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So instead we now have a system where single women can't buy on their own so are forced to partner up. Yeah, real progress there.

Compare that to when single earners could buy homes, so a woman who had chosen not to marry could buy a flat for herself no bother.

:rolleyes:

You know, two women can buy a house just the same as a couple. My cousins bought a house together... I know friends who bought a house together.

It's not exactly sex in exchange for payment for a home.

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This entire thread : it would be nice if they built more houses to ease demand , it would be nice if there was affordable developments for working people near dublin ,

Somehow some posters have mis interpreted that as people looking for discounts in houses or telling people to move down the country or any other manor of unviable options.

GreenBo , do you accept that dublin prices are irrationally high because of constrained supply and that building more houses would lower these prices and make dublin more accessible to the people who need (yes some people need to be) there

I don't think its irrationally high if thats what the demand is.

You cant lower prices below demand unless you do something artificial, like isolate lower cost houses for people on lower incomes, but thats not going to end well either.

Where do you think these "more houses" can be built in Dublin exactly? We already have huge estates of houses and apartments halfway up the Dublin mountains on commutes that take longer than travelling from Drogheda.

Until demand drops, i.e. everyone accepts they cant all live in Dublin then the prices are what people are willing to pay.

GreeBo

Idbatterim wrote: »

Good post! BUT, BUT! are you people on here serious about not seeing what the solution is? I simply cannot understand it! There is only a shortage of property and ridiculous cost, due to government decisions...

And us idiots will give up so much, move locations, lifetime **** commute as a result of this accepting "ah shure, thats the way it is" :rolleyes::mad:

What decisions of the government are impacting supply and demand of houses?

Unless you are specifically talking about social housing, which is NOT what is under discussion here.
And even then, social housing is not going to magically popup in some greenfield site that we all forgot about in the city centre.

klaaaz

pwurple wrote: »

You know, two women can buy a house just the same as a couple. My cousins bought a house together... I know friends who bought a house together.

It's not exactly sex in exchange for payment for a home.

That happened in the last bubble too, it can often end in distress and family/friends breakup.
One thing is that REIT's have bought up maybe thousands of apartments(another name for flats) shutting out those single buyers who just want a small flat. The REIT's are landlords too.

Yurt2

GreeBo wrote: »

You cant lower prices below demand unless you do something artificial, like isolate lower cost houses for people on lower incomes, but thats not going to end well either.
.

Except in all the countries that it does work in. Throw a dart at a map in Northern Europe and there are successful schemes of varying types.

It would be easier for all in the thread if you admitted that you don't care about the problem of unaffordability, rather than doing a poor job trying to explain away that the problem doesn't exist.