DS Automobiles launches the DS7 Crossback

GeneHunt

Aparently DS Automobiles had their Irish official launch of the DS7 Crossback yesterday. Below are the models / spec & prices. Petrol & Diesel from the start with a 4X4 PHEV on the way. They will be aiming the DS7 Crossback at the likes of the BMW X1, Audi Q3, Jaguar E-Pace, Volvo XC40, Range Rover Evoque and the Luxus UX.



Model Engine Fuel__ Transmission CO2/km Road Tax Retail Price
Elegance 1.2L Puretech 130bhp 6MT Petrol 6-Speed Manual 148 €270 €36,000
Performance Line 1.2L Puretech 130bhp 6MT Petrol 6-Speed Manual 150 €270 €42,000
Performance Line 1.6L Puretech 180bhp EAT8 Petrol 8-Speed Automatic 179 €280 €47,500
Prestige 1.6L Puretech 180bhp EAT8 Petrol 8-Speed Automatic 180 €280 €52,500
Elegance 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 146 €190 €38,300
Elegance 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 145 €190 €41,300
Performance Line 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 146 €190 €44,300
Performance Line 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 143 €190 €47,300
Performance Line_ 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8_ Diesel 8-Speed Automatic_ 173 €270 €49,795
Prestige 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 149 €190 €49,300
Prestige 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 173 €270 €54,795
Ultra Prestige 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 173 €270 €60,235

Arthur Daley

Good to see a big Citroen back in the game

grogi

So effectively a 3008 with 10008€ extra?

CrowdedHouse

Those tax rates are completely wrong.

pah

grogi

What are those buttons?!

In general I am all for physical buttons - but the complete lack of organisation of them is just ridiculous...

neris

is that not a citreon

grogi

neris wrote: »

is that not a citreon

According to PSA no, it ain't a Citroen. It's a DS.

kerten

grogi wrote: »

What are those buttons?!

In general I am all for physical buttons - but the complete lack of organisation of them is just ridiculous...

I guess they are touch buttons not physical ones

kerten

grogi wrote: »

So effectively a 3008 with 10008€ extra?

It is a 3008 underneath but has multilink suspension at rear axle and more powerful 1.6 petrol engines (there is a 225 hp version of that 1.6 engine but it may be LHD only).

Obviously take on premium market so more refined and fancier materials everywhere

Alun

Isn't DS Automobiles just Citroen's version of Lexus and Infiniti?

grogi

Alun wrote: »

Isn't DS Automobiles just Citroen's version of Lexus and Infiniti?

Both DS and Citroen are brands of PSA if that's what you're asking about... As is Peugeot, Opel and Vauxhall...

kerten

Alun wrote: »

Isn't DS Automobiles just Citroen's version of Lexus and Infiniti?

Correct.

ShadowHearth

grogi wrote: »

Both DS and Citroen are brands of PSA if that's what you're asking about... As is Peugeot, Opel and Vauxhall...

DS is separate brand now. I talked to dealer who took over Citroen and he said he won't have DS, because they forcing dealers to have a completely separate showroom.

Citroen is coming out with their own version of this. It's going to be Citroen c5 aircross. So this DS, 3008 and c5 aircross sharing same platform.
To be honest, out of all 3 of them, c5 aircross looks most interesting. Hydraulic suspension and way more funkier styling.

colm_mcm

They’re deluded if they think they will sell any. They’re tried this before.
Having one dealer for the country is a joke.

GeneHunt

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Those tax rates are completely wrong.

I took the data from the DS website <here> and I forgot to cross check the numbers, the DS website is very poor... But you are right about the TAX rates, I wonder are the CO2 figures right.

Arthur Daley

Again it's all about UK sales and if you can flog a few in Ireland directly then go for it. Presumably the DS can be serviced through the Citroen dealerships to keep everything within warranty.

colm_mcm

Could be like the Abarth situation!

galwaytt

Sat in my first DS the other day: DS3 1.6 petrol turbo, 155bhp. Very nice, lovely cabin, nothing beats a big engine in a small car....

GeneHunt

As mentioned above, I took the data from the DS website <here> and I'm not sure if the TAX rates or the CO2 are right on the DS website! However, It could be a mistake between NEDC to WLTP testing results (I hope it's a genuine mistake on the DS website!) But if the CO2 figures are right, which they could be the new WLTP figures, as the TAX rates quoted look to match the older Peugeot 3008 TAX rates (NEDC based figures). So I've amended the below table, this time using the CO2 figures quoted on the DS website and up dated the TAX rates accordingly, If these figures are right, I can't see too many people ordering the 2.0L diesel anytime soon!

Model Engine Fuel__ Transmission CO2/km Road Tax Retail Price
Elegance 1.2L Puretech 130bhp 6MT Petrol 6-Speed Manual 148 €390 €36,000
Performance Line 1.2L Puretech 130bhp 6MT Petrol 6-Speed Manual 150 €390 €42,000
Performance Line 1.6L Puretech 180bhp EAT8 Petrol 8-Speed Automatic 179 €750 €47,500
Prestige 1.6L Puretech 180bhp EAT8 Petrol 8-Speed Automatic 180 €750 €52,500
Elegance 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 146 €390 €38,300
Elegance 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 145 €390 €41,300
Performance Line 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 146 €390 €44,300
Performance Line 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 143 €390 €47,300
Performance Line_ 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8_ Diesel 8-Speed Automatic_ 173 €750 €49,795
Prestige 1.5L BlueHDi 130bhp 6MT Diesel 6-Speed Manual 149 €390 €49,300
Prestige 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 173 €750 €54,795
Ultra Prestige 2.0L BlueHDi 180bhp EAT8 Diesel 8-Speed Automatic 173 €750 €60,235

GeneHunt

ShadowHearth wrote: »

DS is separate brand now. I talked to dealer who took over Citroen and he said he won't have DS, because they forcing dealers to have a completely separate showroom.

Citroen is coming out with their own version of this. It's going to be Citroen c5 aircross. So this DS7 Crossback, 3008 and c5 aircross sharing same platform.
To be honest, out of all 3 of them, c5 aircross looks most interesting. Hydraulic suspension and way more funkier styling.

There's one other cousin you forgot to mention which makes it four, the Opel / Vauxhall Grandland X.

ShadowHearth

GeneHunt wrote: »

There's one other cousin you forgot to mention which makes it four, the Opel / Vauxhall Grandland X.

That's right, forgot about Opel, at this stage, maybe even Germans forgot about it. :pac:

colm_mcm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

DS is separate brand now. I talked to dealer who took over Citroen and he said he won't have DS, because they forcing dealers to have a completely separate showroom.

Citroen is coming out with their own version of this. It's going to be Citroen c5 aircross. So this DS, 3008 and c5 aircross sharing same platform.
To be honest, out of all 3 of them, c5 aircross looks most interesting. Hydraulic suspension and way more funkier styling.

PSA have gone like VW with their MQB platform, so the EMP2 platform is the basis of stuff like the Toyota Proace, Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot 508 etc,

Platform these days just means a bunch of common parts which can be used in a variety of cars from SUVs and vans to small cars.

road_high

Those prices are actually fairly reasonable. I like DS, PSA have genuinely good cars at the moment so least they won’t feel so much as posh Citroen’s as they did.
It’s a shame they won’t see many here, the DS3 sold a few when it was a Citroen but never see a new one now.

road_high

When DS came out a few years ago as an own brand, fairly sure the normal Citroen dealers sold them? Our local one certainly sold a few. They could do with the product and volume, the DS3 is a car with a wide enough appeal but mightn’t reach enough sales if limited to a few special dealers?

Marcusm

galwaytt wrote: »

Sat in my first DS the other day: DS3 1.6 petrol turbo, 155bhp. Very nice, lovely cabin, nothing beats a big engine in a small car....

It’s not really that big or powerful an engine in that tune, is it. It’s the same Prince engine that’s been in 208s, DS3s and (until 2010 or so) Minis got more than a decade. Can be up to 220bhp IIRC.

grogi

Marcusm wrote: »

It’s not really that big or powerful an engine in that tune, is it. It’s the same Prince engine that’s been in 208s, DS3s and (until 2010 or so) Minis got more than a decade. Can be up to 220bhp IIRC.

270bhp in Peugeot 308 GTi.

GeneHunt

pah wrote: »

Ah pah, please don't mention your DS5 here

Cos I still have my one , and I still love it..... :cool:

All jokes aside, you had the Hybrid DS5, so the problem you had could also have happened if it was the Peugeot 508 RXH or the 3008 Hybrid.


I said I may as well fix your YouTube link too!

colm_mcm

road_high wrote: »

When DS came out a few years ago as an own brand, fairly sure the normal Citroen dealers sold them? Our local one certainly sold a few. They could do with the product and volume, the DS3 is a car with a wide enough appeal but mightn’t reach enough sales if limited to a few special dealers?

They used to sell them as Citroen’s, then they rebranded those cars as DS. That gives the brand (the original Citroen DS was their finest moment) a lot less credibility.

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

They used to sell them as Citroen’s, then they rebranded those cars as DS. That gives the brand (the original Citroen DS was their finest moment) a lot less credibility.

It’s a bit of a hard sell alright but fair play to PSA for offering something different.
I’d love to know how un/profitable the brand is! It costs huge sums of money to establish a brand, let alone a range of quality cars to back that up! Brave move I think

kerten

I was following this model for a while.

DS7 is the first DS model on PSA group's EMP2 platform + independent rear suspension(which other PSA models don't have).

Comparing to 3008/Grandland X, It offers more refinement, more powerful petrol engines, better interior materials and more technology(active scan, nightvision, etc) and interesting design especially inside.

road_high

kerten wrote: »

I was following this model for a while.

DS7 is the first DS model on PSA group's EMP2 platform + independent rear suspension(which other PSA models don't have).

Comparing to 3008/Grandland X, It offers more refinement, more powerful petrol engines, better interior materials and more technology(active scan, nightvision, etc) and interesting design especially inside.

It looks pretty well priced for all that and relative to the competition.

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

It’s not really that big or powerful an engine in that tune, is it. It’s the same Prince engine that’s been in 208s, DS3s and (until 2010 or so) Minis got more than a decade. Can be up to 220bhp IIRC.

In a nation of 1.5dCi's it is

colm_mcm

road_high wrote: »

It looks pretty well priced for all that and relative to the competition.

What would you see as its competition?

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

What would you see as its competition?

Well they’re trying to be a French Audi aren't they? So the likes of the Audi Q3, Range Rover evoque. They’re more expensive aren’t they?

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

What would you see as its competition?

They will be aiming the DS7 Crossback at the likes of the BMW X1, Audi Q3, Jaguar E-Pace, Volvo XC40, Range Rover Evoque and the Luxus UX

I mentioned the competition in the OP, and that's coming from DS Automobiles Ireland...

bazz26

If only I had a euro for every time a mainstream car manufacturer claimed to be competing against premium brands.

For Forks Sake

bazz26 wrote: »

If only I had a euro for every time a mainstream car manufacturer claimed to be competing against premium brands.

You probably still wouldn't be able to afford that DS7?

Let's be realistic, only French government dignitaries are going to be in one.

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

If only I had a euro for every time a mainstream car manufacturer claimed to be competing against premium brands.

But isn’t that the point of DS? Establish a premium make based on a mainstream platform. I don’t see the difference between them and what VW/Audi do tbh

bazz26

road_high wrote: »

But isn’t that the point of DS? Establish a premium make based on a mainstream platform. I don’t see the difference between them and what VW/Audi do tbh

Audi are an established premium brand, DS are not, to most they are just a quirky French PSA sub brand. You will get more of your 50k Audi back come resale time than you will of a DS, that's the reality of the market. Equally someone looking at the likes of a RR Evoque or Jaguar E Pace is very unlikely to wonder into a DS showroom.

colm_mcm

GeneHunt wrote: »

I mentioned the competition in the OP, and that's coming from DS Automobiles Ireland...

Do you agree them though? How often has a French car actually successfully competed with premium brands. Maybe the original DS, but anything since then has been oddball stuff sold in tiny numbers to enthusiasts or anti-brand types or the French government.

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

Audi are an established premium brand, DS are not, to most they are just a quirky French PSA sub brand. You will get more of your 50k Audi back come resale time than you will of a DS, that's the reality of the market. Equally someone looking at the likes of a RR Evoque or Jaguar E Pace is very unlikely to wonder into a DS showroom.

But Audi had to start somewhere too! They were bankrupt Auto Union before coming under VWs wing. It was essentially built into a premium brand since the 70s with in many cases reworked VW platforms. The PSA platforms are no less credible donors than the VW group ones. Whether PSA can pull it off remains to be seen but they seem to persisting with and investing in it.

Arthur Daley

Probably the last really successful big French barge was the Renault 25. The 607 did sell relatively well here as well, but as we know that (Granada) class has largely died off now. I obviously like to see them have their place in the market and sell something alternative to the usual predictable brands, but really they need to be a little bit cheaper than a true premium rival, as the higher end of the CX or Renault 25 range would have naturally competed with a lower spec 5 series/Audi 100/E class back in the day.

bazz26

I'm not doubting that it's a good car but reality is that DS isn't a name that people associate with a premium brand. Establishing a premium brand is not something that is done easily overnight or even over a longer period and many manufacturers bar Toyota with Lexus most recently, have failed many times.

So the big question is would you be willing to sink 40k or 50k of your own money into one of these knowing that very likely it will suffer an extremely limited appeal and huge depreciation or would you wait for someone else to do and then buy it in a year or two for a fraction of the original price?

road_high

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Probably the last really successful big French barge was the Renault 25. The 607 did sell relatively well here as well, but as we know that (Granada) class has largely died off now. I obviously like to see them have their place in the market and sell something alternative to the usual predictable brands, but really they need to be a little bit cheaper than a true premium rival, as the higher end of the CX or Renault 25 range would have naturally competed with a lower spec 5 series/Audi 100/E class back in the day.

But the prices look fairly reasonable to me? Starting at €36k for something very well trimmed. The 3008 is a very good car to begin with so you’re getting a competent vehicle to start with

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm not doubting that it's a good car but reality is that DS isn't a name that people associate with a premium brand. Establishing a premium brand is not something that is done easily overnight or even over a longer period and many manufacturers bar Toyota with Lexus most recently, have failed many times.

So the big question is would you be willing to sink 40k or 50k of your own money into one of these knowing that very likely it will suffer an extremely limited appeal and huge depreciation or would you wait for someone else to do and then buy it in a year or two for a fraction of the original price?

It’s a long term game alright and notoriously difficult. Will be interesting to see they fair long term. It’ll definitely fair better on the continent

Arthur Daley

road_high wrote: »

But the prices look fairly reasonable to me? Starting at €36k for something very well trimmed. The 3008 is a very good car to begin with so you’re getting a competent vehicle to start with

Yeah I think it isn't too badly priced for the lower level petrols anyway. That 36,000 for the entry level one, compares to 44 grand for an entry level X1, but the BMW is 140bhp vs 130bhp for the DS. Pocket 8k and be happy enough with it, especially if you will run it for a good few years.

road_high

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Yeah I think it isn't too badly priced for the lower level petrols anyway. That 36,000 for the entry level one, compares to 44 grand for an entry level X1, but the BMW is 140bhp vs 130bhp for the DS. Pocket 8k and be happy enough with it, especially if you will run it for a good few years.

That’s what I mean. It’s a decent entry price for a high quality vehicle. With a good service support it could be a very nice option indeed. I’d imagine they’re much better specced than your average bmw or Audi too.

road_high

Peugeot residuals have strengthened hugely with the latest generation, the 3008 being one of the “in” cars these days. That’s a good association to begin with

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

GeneHunt wrote: »

I mentioned the competition in the OP, and that's coming from DS Automobiles Ireland...

Do you agree them though? How often has a French car actually successfully competed with premium brands. Maybe the original DS, but anything since then has been oddball stuff sold in tiny numbers to enthusiasts or anti-brand types or the French government.

I do agree with them - why not?! Who knows, if Peugeot was better handled back in the 70's they would now be in the premium class, because they were on a similar scale to an Audi at that time.
I remember when Toyota introduced Lexus to us back in the 1990 with the LS 400 and look where they are now. Your looking at this all wrong, having another manufacturer in the premium field is GOOD, because it also makes the others do more! Look at BMW or VW at the moment, I think they are way too conservative in their designs, it's getting harder to spot a new model because it's way too like last one, take the 5 series, the level of change from say the E34 to the E39 on to the F60 was wow, but the G30 could pass as a F60 facelift. Audi & Mercedes Benz not so much, but look at Lexus pushing there new design language, no mistaking there new models.

colm_mcm

GeneHunt wrote: »

I remember when Toyota introduced Lexus to us back in the 1990 with the LS 400 and look where they are now.

The key difference here is that the LS400 brought something new to the party and redefined its segment in terms of technology, refinement and reliability.
This DS7 is made from PSA Lego and from what I can tell brings no innovation apart from style/fit and finish. Pricing at reg top end is mental for what you’re actually getting.

I’m sure it’s quite a good car, but we’ve seen this before with DS. Being aimed at the premium segment age actually competing with it are two different things.